A question or two

[Judith(SO)]

During a recent conversation with my husband, I asked him if there was one thing which would cause him to stop dressing up in women’s clothes. I took it from the length of time he thought about it that it was something which he’d never brought to mind, but he eventually came forth with something which sounded quite plausible, but then in my mind I suppose I know that it’s unlikely he would stop.

I was wondering about you fellows and if any of you have one thing which would cause you to stop doing it, if so, I just wanted to compare it with what my hubby said.

Another thing which came up in that conversation was about any difference now as to years ago.
What I mean is this, I asked him if over the years there had been any changes in how he viewed what he did, if anything felt different or if his attitude had changed in that his needs were different now to say, 25 years ago, before we met.
I’ve been told and I’ve read where people say that as one gets older the needs become more urgent and bolder, the need gets harder to control, is that the case with any of you fellows who are 40 years plus in age.

I’m endeavoring to have a deeper and broader understanding of what may or may not be before us in the future, I suppose it’s a case of being forewarned is to be forearmed, sort of.
I think he now sees and believes that I’m not his enemy with this. I do believe though that with anything in life, especially in a marriage, honesty is the best policy, it saves unpleasantness and possible upheaval at a future date, so he fully understands that although I won’t ever ask him to stop, it’ll have to be his own decision to do so, if ever, but at this stage I’m unable to be a part of that side of him or participate.
I would venture to say though that it probably depends on where he goes with it in the future and where it progresses to, if at all, there are limits to what I could endure with it, it’s no good saying one thing and meaning another.

I’ve never said to him though that if his needs go beyond certain boundaries or if it starts to control our lives, I would have to walk away.
I don’t believe in ultimatums because they can lead to more deceit and mistrust, what will be will be, I have never believed in forcing my ideas on anyone or making demands they don’t wish to meet. In this case I think he, and others in a similar situation have to make their own decisions, based on their own personal priorities.

Judith.

[Carol Ann]

Judith, kind of a hard question for me as my wife of 49 years know before we got married and she not only except it but to her it was great dressing her husband up and going out together.

We are retired now moved out into the country and no kids so she doesn't mine me dressing all I want BUT she doesn't want me going out around here.
As for the need to dress as you get older, I believe it is true.

I have been opening dressing now for 60 years as for me it is normal. Now I have gone as far as I want as under it all I am still a male ,

Tell you something my wife has told me time and time again, "you still are the same man I married", beside us CD'er make great husbands.

Carol Ann

[Anthony Simon]

Well,I also try and think where the CDing is going to go, Judith. I mean I would like to be able to control it, but it doesn't seem to work like that. I wouldn't say it controls my life - in that, quite often, I have CDing impulses which I feel are not doing me any good. If I don't follow them, they go away.

I do not believe that there is one thing that would allow me to give it up; it's become an integral part of my life. So, from that perspective, it's like any element of my life - there has to be a balance.

Although this is not a standard line, the major changes in the CDing seem to have to do, in my case, with the impact of outside events on me. Like I CD more as a way of bringing my life to balance the, negative, impact of these events.

Not much of this, perhaps, has any great revelance for you and your husband. But there are also balances to be found in marriages, just as there are within the individual. One thing I would say is that CDs are often extremely defensive about their CDing impulse - but it's like all other human impulses, not perfectly right all the time.

[CharLee]

Judith,
I can onlt speak for myself, but other Cd'ers I have talked to have had the same feelings as I have.

In the beginning it was jut the lure of dressing in womens clothing and enjoying the feeling of escaping my male role and taking on the part of a woman. As time went on it became more of a need to dress as a woman because I felt better about myself in that role than I did in my male self.

Over the years as I dressed more and more the urge began to get stronger and stronger and I felt helpless to stop it, not that I really wanted to stop, but there was guilt and shame for doing so. Eventually the guilt and shame went away and I became comfortable transforming into a woman and started to accept that this was something I could not stop but could have some control over it.

My second wife I told before we became a couple and she was willing to try to understand and allow me the opportunity to dress as long as it was in private and the kids never saw it. That lasted for awhile, but eventually they found out and it was no big deal for them so I could be dressed in front of them at times.

My whole family knows of my CDing, and some accept it and others don't want to see me dressed as a woman and I am fine with that. Those who prefer not to see me dressed I respect their wishes and never show them this side of me. Those who accept my Cding have seen me dressed many times and have no problem seeing me that way.

But I must confess to you that within the last 5 years as the urge has become stronger I have come to realize that it is more than CDing for me, I now would like to transition to become a " real " woman, or at least have the opportunity to live the rest of my life as one. Of course this does not sit well with my wife, and I totally understand her feelings about this, but we have come to a compromise where I can dress anytime I feel the urge with nothing being said on her part.

Now I don't know if this is where your husbands CDing is leading too, but if it does try to be tolerant and understanding and work out a solution that you both are comfortable to live with. Whatever happens I hope things work out for you in the positive.

If ever you need to talk more about this, you know how to reach me.

Best wishess to you and your husband.

[DonnaT]

I can't think of anything that would cause me to stop dressing. Well, maybe if I ended up in jail!

My urges and needs haven't changed with age. They've changed based on circumstances.

That is, I'm more relaxed since I can dress any time. I don't wear the wig nor makeup around the house, however, nor do I have a need to do so.

If I wasn't as free to dress, then I know my urges would be pushing me to dress, as they did when I was younger. I've had that experience when on vacation.

[Leeza]

Judith,

In answer to your first question about is there anything that would make me stop dressing, I cannot think of any except maybe Donna's answer of jail or something similar. Over the years I have tried at times and the urge came back so strong that I had to give in or become unbearable to live with.

As to the urge getting stronger as we age, I used to think that it does or maybe the circumstances change as we age. I do know that it was easier to control when I was younger. (I am 66).

In looking back, there are times in my life that had I not been a CD I am not sure I could have handled them. Most notable was the last several years when I was full time caregiver to my wife. I am not sure I could have done what I had to do if it wasn't for the fem side of me.

[Anita]

Hi Judith --
This is hardly a scientific explanation, but it was one I came up with. I found out, to my surprise, that keeping a secret is not a passive activity. It takes active energy to do this. At eighteen, I didn't notice how much energy it took. At 49, when CDing came back, I saw that it was going to wipe out my energy reserves to try to keep it a secret. There's no way I could have seen that coming.

When you're young, you have more energy available for keeping secrets. Let's say that the average teenager has 20 units of "energy." Then let's say that hiding the fact that you CD and suppressing it sometimes takes at least two of those units--that is, not tell anyone, keep it a big secret, and try to control it. Hey, two units--no big deal. That's 10% of his energy tied up, but he can pay that "price" fairly easily.

We have less overall energy as we get older. By age 40, I may have only 14 of those original 20 units of energy. But the cost of hiding and/or suppressing my CDing is still two units. It now takes 14% of my energy to keep that secret. I'm paying a higher price for it, and that's assuming that it didn't get any stronger over time. By age 60, I may be down to 10 units of overall energy, and guess what? It now takes 20% of my energy to pay the CD piper.

The other part of aging is that by the age of 49, I’d figured out that many of the “rewards” I’d been promised for being a man were either not so rewarding, or weren’t going to occur. I could see that there were other rewards in presenting a woman to the world—so I did that instead.

I asked him if there was one thing which would cause him to stop dressing up in women’s clothes. I took it from the length of time he thought about it that it was something which he’d never brought to mind, but he eventually came forth with something which sounded quite plausible, but then in my mind I suppose I know that it’s unlikely he would stop.

I'd be interested in what he had to say on that. I've not heard anyone talk about sublimating this need successfully. It seems to be very specific, and nothing less than being it and doing it works.

[Paula G]

Well I can't think of anything other than enforced restraint that would make me stop dressing, indeed if I though there was anything that would make me stop, I would. Life would certainly be simpler and our marriage better if I could stop, but I have now come to accept that I can't, after all I've tried often enough.

Having said that the character of my dressing has changed over the years I have written a little about this here http://paula-paulasplace.blogspot.co.uk ... llels.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and here http://paula-paulasplace.blogspot.co.uk ... lving.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When I was younger it was a largely sexual experience, and this was reflected in what I wore, as I have grown older that side of it has receded but I find that I want to present to world the woman that inside me, going out fully dressed and enjoying the opportunities life gives me, dinning, going to exhibitions, shopping etc. I am just starting to wear more casual clothes and that is a reflection of the things I am doing when dressed. I can only guess what the future holds, I know I do not want to be a woman, or to go 24/7 but I do find I want to spend longer periods as a woman, as long as I can always go back.

Men and women are different, that's why some of us feel we have to dress and try to look like a woman before we can experience anything of what a woman is, to understand women, we can understand only by personal experience. Sometimes the "pink fog" descends and the urge to dress is very strong and continuous, at other times it is so far in the background to be almost forgotten. There have been occasions when I haven't needed to dress for years, then there are whole months when I have to (to some extent) almost everyday.

At least that is what I think today.

[Judith(SO)]

Carol, your wife seems like a real sweetie and obviously you obtained the result which was good for you both by your wife knowing all about you before you got married. By her knowing about you before you got married, it left nothing which could come as a big surprise later in your lives, and that to me makes your experience different to ours.

I couldn’t say that my husband is the same man I married twenty plus years ago, even if in his mind he is, to me he’s different because I now know something about him which if it became general knowledge in our local community, it has the potential to devastate all our lives, which have been so great. Our three daughters have never known another home or neighborhood, all their friends live close by, my hubby and I have forged close ties with people here over time, and he is known as the local plumber in our suburb and is highly thought of within local sporting and social clubs. I can envisage the uproar and unpleasant reactions if his ‘hobby’ became local knowledge.
I hope one day the feeling I have of not being trusted to be told back when we were laying our souls bare to each other, as we grew towards making a life together, will one day abate. It’s not something I consciously concentrate on, but it’s there, and all this upheaval we’ve experienced could have been avoided, he knows that, but he has to live with the decision he made back then.

I am a firm believer that the time to tell is early in the relationship, if and when it gets to start to develop into something serious. A young girl in love is more likely to accept something like this than she is later in life when she’s a mature woman and other factors, such as children and the overall surroundings of friends and lifestyle can be affected. Also, I think quite a number of people would have experienced the negative reaction by their wives finding out later in life, and it then becomes a matter of trust or the lack thereof, and that feeling of being cheated of knowing something which may or may not have had a bearing on our decisions about life choices back when we were mapping it all out. A really strong relationship can probably survive ok, but I would think that if there’s any ‘staggers’ going on, then suddenly knowing could be excuse for the wife to wave goodbye, and she’d most likely get all the sympathy, support and comfort.

I would agree with Anthony when he says that there are balances to be found in marriages, but then to find those balances we both need to have all the facts. It just seems to me that the suggestion that the wife needs to do the compromising may sometimes be a bit self serving because one cannot reach a compromise if only one party has all the true facts. It can be a tad difficult to immediately start accepting what is said when one has been living a lie for decades. In saying this I’m not suggesting that it’s lop sided, far from it, I know in our case I make suggestions and try to elicit more and more information, but my hubby is a devout introvert and closes up something dreadful when the conversation isn’t to his liking, but time is a valuable tool and hopefully we have plenty left yet, and it’ll all work out for the better eventually. It’s said patience is a virtue, and patience is something which I have an abundance of.

I know that many of you fellows feel you’re discriminated against, and you probably are, but gender assumptions work against both males and females, so I know to a degree how you feel, how my hubby feels.
For women, there is a general assumption that nurturing comes naturally to us, that we’re the weaker sex and we don’t deserve to be paid the same wages as a man for doing the identical job, and it’s suggested that it’s un-natural for a woman to want to be a brick layer, or a motor mechanic, and that is nothing short of outrageous, it’s blunt discrimination.
When one sees men, mainly white middle class males, obtaining the better jobs, being paid more and having the freedom to safely walk the streets at night without the fear of being raped or sexually assaulted, it makes it a tad harder to feel sorry for them at times.

Having said this, I do feel for young men at times, particularly teenagers, who have such a dreadfully high suicide rate.
They grow up being conditioned to believe that they have to be ‘manly’, they cannot cry, which is ridiculous, it’s the first thing they do naturally when they’re born. I think that just as women suffer with the principle that there’s nothing worse than not being a man, so too do boys and men who may have characteristics which are not considered ‘appropriate’ for a male.
From my experiences in life I know boys can feel so isolated and made to feel as if they’re not ‘real men’, and outside influences can drive them to make life threatening decisions, and this is so sad. I do feel that boys are under much more pressure than girl’s to make ‘pack pleasing decisions’, which depletes their confidence to feel free to act in whatever way which comes naturally to them. I believe from what I now know, something similar had a detrimental effect on my hubby as a youth and into his twenties, and knowing and now realizing this, it helps me in finding ways to make him more at ease, and of course, just as important, it is helping ease my tensions and broaden my perspective, but it takes time, and it seems to be the general consensus of opinion, including my hubby, that short of a catastrophe, wearing women’s clothes is something which you will do till the day you expire. That’s life I suppose, we don’t always get what we want, there’s choices which have to be made, hopefully the right ones for a pleasant outcome.

Thanks for the input, it’s much appreciated, and I’m sorry I waffle, but then women waffle, it’s our right, isn’t it?

Judith.

[Wendae]

CharLee said it well and reflects my feelings.
Oh, please don't refer to us as"fellows"!

[Jina James]

Pretty much what DonnaT said is true for me.

It seems to be less critical for me than for most whose posts I read here. I can -- and have -- given it up for periods of up to six months, just to prove to myself that I could do it. Still, I missed it. It does seem to pull at me more at times when I can't do it than when I can.

My progression with this: At first, it was almost purely sexual. After some years, it became primarily (but not exclusively) about stress relief. Now it mostly provides an overall sense of well being.

Still, what I do is 100% at home, and I don't expect that to change. If my wife insisted, I would give it up, although the costs of doing so would be high.

[Carly]

Judith,
I think we are all similar but still quite different. The only thing that could make me give this up is if I found it started to change my sexual preferences, which it never has. Still just like women.
I have had increased desires as i have grown older (I'm almost 60 now). But it may be as someone said they opportunities have increased and the calmness it brings is addictive.
I wish that I could have known where it would lead 40 yrs ago (when I got married) . I would have told her. But it developed over time and she was involved with some of it. She just cut it off a few years ago when I developed a chronic debilitating illness. I wish better communication with your husband. I think boundaries are useful. Communication is important.

[April Rose]

I have given up cross dressing for long periods of time, thinking it would make my wife happier. It didn't really seem to. It just made me more miserable. What you are really asking is for him to prove he really loves you, regardless of whether he wears feminine clothes or not.

[Wendae]

Judith honey, I don't think that understanding is something you will get. I've been married 47 years and 3 years ago I had enough sneaking around(she actually knew) and told her I was going to dress when I felt like it and if I needed to get out of the house I would. She doesn't understand(like most women) why I need to do this. Some seem to think it is to push them away. She has found out that I am a lot easier to live with. More agreeable, less stressed or short tempered and someone to talk makeup, jewelery, and clothes. I don't act all girly but of course I'm coming up on 72. I am not not her girl friend or sister and I still carry out chores expected of a husband but am more willing to take on more domestic tasks.
Some ground rules can be worked out however if he wants to transition I am not able to offer any thoughts on your relationship. I probably would if I were younger but time has passed me by.
One thought came to me last night in regard to giving it up. I told my shrink that the day I looked in the mirror and saw an old man in a dress I would put an end to it all.
AprilRose and I have had the same experience.

[Judith(SO)]

Carly, thing is, you’re the only one who has said something similar to what my hubby said in regards to what would make him stop wearing women’s clothes.
Yes, it would be helpful in some ways with lots of things in our lives if we knew where a certain thing would lead, but then I suppose it’s a bit like the situation if we knew when the exact time would occur when our life would expire, some knowledge of certain things in advance may well lead to making decisions which wouldn’t be in the best interest of ourselves or those closely connected to us.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at when you say “boundaries are useful’.
I think that with someone setting boundaries with anything that can set up an atmosphere for resentment, which can escalate into situations where people really start to grow apart.

I’ve never said to hubby that I wish he’d stop doing it, right from day one of finding out. I think he’s responsible enough to make his own decisions in regards to what is best for the welfare of himself and his family. All our married life, and that of our children too, I’ve never believed in laying down the law as to what people can or cannot do. I’ve always worked on the belief that it’s better to discuss any issue, bring to peoples attention that if this or this or that takes place then this, this or this may or may not happen. We did that with our children as they were growing into young adults, and so far it’s worked well with giving them the options of what the consequences may or may not be if they engage in certain behaviour, or frequent certain places or keep company with certain people, but in the end I believe people will do what they want to do irrespective of any boundaries which may be laid down. Boundaries can drive people underground and cause them to be devious.

As I’ve said previously, now through the passage of time and interaction I believe that my hubby’s wish to dress up doesn’t present any danger to our family, other than the repercussions which would ensue for the family if it became public knowledge, and for that to happen it only needs one person to find out doesn’t it, and then the news spreads like wildfire doesn’t it. Scary thought.

April, I’m uncertain as to why you think I’m asking him to prove he really loves me. I know he loves me dearly, he always has. The vibes are still very, very strong. A woman knows when a man loves her, or the once love has waned, and one of the reasons why I would never make the demand for him to stop is that I love him dearly and the last thing I want is for him to be unhappy and stressed out. He’s been through a lot this last couple of years, it’s been harder on him than it has on me, and I know that if it were at all possible he would change it all, but I’ve seen and felt the struggle he’s had and still has at times, and I cry silently within for him.
I’d just like to say this. I now have some knowledge of how difficult life has been for you and people of your ilk, and life shouldn’t really be that hard and painful , and you all have my sympathy and I wish it was a better world, but it’s what it is and unfortunately I can’t see any way in which it’s going to improve for you all. It’s just such a volatile subject when you bring it up, I know because that’s just what I’ve been doing when the opportunity presents itself. When I ask people what they think about men wearing women’s clothes, the reactions vary from a, don’t care, attitude to down right vileness, it’s very seldom one gets a positive reaction.
I’d also like to say that it’s extremely hard for us too. It’s something that a person just couldn’t start to understand, unless they were the same themselves. It’s like anything which is part of a persons psych or personality, you can tell others what it feels like etc, but you can’t convey those feelings beyond words, I know something of this because of the work I do. People can tell you what they feel and what satisfies those feelings or makes things better or worse, but it’s impossible to experience their pain or what is driving them, it’s just not humanly possible, so people can say that others should be understanding, but as you may know, if it’s impossible for a person to understand something then there is just as much bewilderment for them as it is for the person seeking comfort and acceptance.

Thanks for the input, it’s always interesting, and if only one positive thing comes out of a discussion then it was all worthwhile, I only hope that nobody takes offence to anything I say, I’m still new with it, but I believe that if you don’t say exactly what’s on your mind then you give yourself less chance of getting the answer you’re seeking, whichever way it goes, I’m not afraid of the truth, if you don’t get the truth then you can’t make correct decisions.

Thanks again
Judith