The Un-Official "Do you know how I feel?" Thread

[KathyB]

In any event, it relieves me of the responsibility to act like a man. To give the nod, to go out without an umbrella, to change the tire, to be the brave one. I can not speak for my sisters here, but I can say that I am most definitely treated differently when dressed, and I prefer it to how I am treated as a man.

Elizabeth, I think you've exposed one of the greatest things we seek as transgendered people: to be treated with courtesy and respect. I don't care if anyone believes I'm a woman; I wouldn't expect them to believe that. But I do wish they would respect my need to be a kinder, gentler, softer person who has feelings and emotions. I wish people would stop expecting things of me only because I'm a man. Just because I'm capable of fixing things or handling situations doesn't relieve anyone else of their obligations to respect my time and who I am. I believe common courtesy is so uncommon these days. I really wish it weren't.

[Anita]

In any event, it relieves me of the responsibility to act like a man.

I don't care if anyone believes I'm a woman; I wouldn't expect them to believe that. But I do wish they would respect my need to be a kinder, gentler, softer person who has feelings and emotions.

I can't say what it feels like to be treated like a woman. I can guess at it, but I can't know. But I do know I'm treated differently when dressed as a woman, and it's like nothing I experience in any other way.

This relates to Amelie's thread. I have tried paring it down to the barest combination of clothing/appearance and manner. Like any of us who go out, I don't always want to have to spend an hour getting ready to go. I like my femme life to be practical, just like my male life. I have tried minimal makeup, jeans and tank tops, and different hair combing.

I have found there's a point I can't go beyond, or people do not know how to treat me. I don't get the "different" treatment, because I'm no longer setting off "woman" cues in their minds.

I value the way people treat me when I'm dressed, and if I'm not getting that reaction, I alter what I'm doing until I do get back to it.

My face and hair are not femme enough to work by themselves, even with makeup. So the clothes have to do more of the work, and that's why I need to wear more formal clothing. It's why dresses and skirts still work better than pants do. I'm looking for that "niche" I fit into when people see me as a woman, and I can tell by their reactions that I've got the right look going. I guess you might say they see me as female, even if they know I'm not a woman.

[Absaroka]

Thanks, Elizabeth, Zippy, and Anita,

That all makes perfect sense.

I'm not fond of having to be the brave one although when there is no man around most women can be just as brave if not more so, and I have no problem asking for directions. But I like being able to change tires and fix things and "the nod" is quite comfortable. And I have to admit I like being the one "in charge" more than I sometimes think I do. I do get tired of being told I am overly emotional.

Absaroka

[Sally]

Hi Curly,

I believe you do know how we feel because you not only have opened your mind to us you've opened your heart, and the combination of the two provides the reality, you truly are a wonderful woman. Like Ed, I'm also blessed with a wonderful woman who has turned herself 'inside out' to make things work for us. She may not be able to understand the whys (me either) but she's accepted how I am, and with her open mind and heart we've been able to create a situation which has kept the status quo in our marriage and lives in general as much as possible.

I believe that as adults we've travelled enough miles to realise that there are many things in life which happen to and around us, which over time creates that sense within us which enables us to feel what other people are feeling in different given situations. The situations and happenings may be different somewhat but the resulting feelings are somewhat identical, and this enables us to express true understanding of feelings and empathy for the other person as regards to what they are feeling as a result of a particualr occurrence.

Many varying and different things which happen to us create the same identical emotions within us, those emotions may include disappointment, confusion, anger, fear, desire, happiness, sadness, disgust and so on and so on. The point I'm getting at is that these emotions, although triggered at times by different catalysts, each emotion is identical in how it makes us feel at that point in time, so that if I feel fear because I'm about to be physically attacked and you feel fear of loss because you're about to have something precious to you taken away, then we both feel the fear the other is feeling, although the catalyst for feeling that fear may be completely different.

To expand on what I'm getting at, I can relate to an experience I had last Christmas. I was at a function given by two friends and they and their wives were the only people who knew 'the truth about me'.
During the evening I somehow became engaged in conversation with a guy who was probably around the age of 50 and who was borderline on his number of drinks consumed. It was soon evident that he was hitting on me and after I'd rebuffed his advances he became quite morbid and suggested that it was the same old story, women rejected him because of his height ( he was around 5ft 2in at a guess). To shorten this down, he became quite depressed and no amount of consoling by myself had any effect on brightening him up. The whole context was that he was very self conscious about his height and he related stories from the past about being constantly rejected by women and also to being made to feel inferior by men much taller than himself. He made it quite clear that if he'd been born six inches taller then his life would have been very different.

The point I'm getting at with this is that he finished up by almost sneering at me that I wouldn't how it felt to be rejected and put down, I wouldn't know how it felt to feel the odd one out, how it felt to live with something every day which you dearly wished you could change. Well, that sort of left me a bit speechless for a moment and made me quietly smile to myself and all I could say to him was, " Maybe I do know how you feel, it's possible I just might."

I thought about it later and thought maybe I should have elaborated for him, but maybe why I left 'sleeping dogs lie' was a combination of not wanting at that time to risk a scene, as he'd had a bit to drink and I had no way of telling how he'd react to the the truth, plus I enjoy being accepted as a woman and being treated as a woman. The female role sits much more comfortable upon and within me than does the other, and to me it's a matter of doing what makes you happy because it's only for an unknown time we can enjoy and celebrate our life and the person we truly are. Whoever or whatever we truly are.

This has been a wonderful thread and I've really enjoyed what everyone has written, it's produced so much 'from the heart'.

When next you pass a woman walking swiftly the other way,
Be careful how you see her, within the light of day,
She just may be a lonely soul, her gender so misread,
Just seeking out solutions to the confusion inside her head.

But still he keeps believing in a time that's yet to come,
Where both can live together, both can live as one,
It's all he has to believe in, She'll never let him go,
Yet in his heart confusion reigns, he loves herself you know.


Kind Regards To All,

[Elizabeth]

HI girls,

I wish people would stop expecting things of me only because I'm a man

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. There have been so many times in my life where I had to say to myself, "ok, what would a man do?". It's almost insane. I sometimes felt like George Castanza. "do the opposite". Like him, it seems that all of my instincts are the opposite of what a man's should be, when compared to other men. Being relieved of this responsibility allows me to just be me and not have to think about how I should be acting.

I'm looking for that "niche" I fit into when people see me as a woman, and I can tell by their reactions that I've got the right look going. I guess you might say they see me as female, even if they know I'm not a woman.

I like the wording you have chosen, it is very close to how I feel things are. There are clearly those, mostly because of distance, that pay no attention to me because I appear female to them. There is no reason to give me any further scrutiny as I am basically a middle aged, overweight woman, as far as they are concerned. Yet there are others who clearly know I am not a woman, but also recognize I am not male. The vast majority of this group of people do in fact see me as female, even if they know I am not a woman. That is a really good analogy, I hope you dont' mind if I use it sometime.

But I like being able to change tires and fix things and "the nod" is quite comfortable. And I have to admit I like being the one "in charge" more than I sometimes think I do. I do get tired of being told I am overly emotional.

It is not that i don't like being able to do things, it is that I hate that I am expected to know how and to do it. Most women never even give it a thought. While some do learn to do these things, they are a serious minority. "The nod", I am not sure women have an equivilent. The only reason I brought this up was that I caught myself giving "the nod" the other day to a gentleman that was escorting his wife out of the grocery store. I was on auto pilot. It was not until he gave me "the nod" back with the strangest look on his face, that I realized that "the nod" is not expected from women, or the transgendered it turns out. I realized that I liked that I was no longer considered to be in "the nod" club.

The point I'm getting at is that these emotions, although triggered at times by different catalysts, each emotion is identical in how it makes us feel at that point in time

I never thought of this before, that all emotions, however triggered are identical. It seems obvious now that you put it out there, but it has really escaped me until now, that this is how empathy works. Great post(as usual) Sally, thanks for contributing.


This really has been a wonderful thread and I hope that others will continue to rant about anything they choose and just let us know "how you feel".

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Curly(SO)]

Hello!

Hope you don't mind me asking a dumb question, but what is a 'nod'? Is that like a quick 'acknowledgement' nod that men do instead of smiling? I know men in the U.K do that...I didn't know it was a multi-national thing!

Love,
Curly

[Elizabeth]

Curly,

"The Nod" is a gesture of a simple up/down head nod that men do to each other to acknowledge each others presense without speaking. Men do a lot of communicating with looks and gestures. I presume this comes from earlier times or indiginous peoples where men hunt in groups and have need to communicate silently.

The nod can mean, everything's cool, hello, goodbye, this is my woman, this is a girl I am using for sex, I can kick your a$$, you can kick my a$$, and a lot of situation specific things, but mostly it is just an acknowledgement. I am not sure why, but men must acknowledge each other if they have eye contact. It may be a territorial thing.

Hope that helps explain it.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Virginia]

Thanks, Elizabeth, now I won't be able to sleep tonight!!! I will be going over in my head if Virginia has ever given the "nod" when she should not have as as a feminine gesture, it does not exist!! You are so right, just watch one woman hold a door open for another woman who is a stranger and then watch the same thing by two men. A woman will likely smile at the other woman with possibly a slight tilt of the head. Men will just "nod!"
I wish I had the ability to explain how I feel. The best I can come up with is as I have said before, I am Virginia she is me and we love each other unconditionally - we have found our balance and "we" now have a friend who loves both of us!!! Virginia's place in my life is that she now has control if you will of at least 90% of my emotional life. She lets Bill pick up the heavy iron in powerlifting competitions yet she is there in his mind encouraging him, supporting him. Bill can hear her in his mind encouraging him, cheering him on, I have proof!!! but that is hard to describe. I am happy to have Virginia "in charge" so to speak and she seems to enjoy steering us in the right directions. However, Bill is always there and if either of "his" women were ever to be threatened, probably the last thing that the perpatrator would ever see is Bill's smiling face before the blackness fell!!
I know that even if as one of our sisters asked what if you could not dress ever again what then? Well I would be totally unscathed, Virginia is me and I am her. Clothes may make the woman look pretty, but they don't make the woman any more or less a woman. That comes from the inside and Virginia is.......................
It is so wonderful, this "gift" and now it is even more blessed as I have someone who may not completely understand it but loves Virginia and Bill and everyone is happy!
as I say, "Woman!!!! Go forth and BE!!!!!!!
Love you all,
Virginia

[Absaroka]

Actually I find that I hold doors for men quite a bit and vice versa. usually we will come right out and say thank you to each other but still there is a much different energy to it than when it is a woman, even if the exact same words are used.

Don't get me started on women holding doors for men. Although they are improving.

When my children were babies and I had them with me I found I got a very different reaction from basically everyone. I liked it a lot. I used to joke that when they were older I would have to borrow other peoples babies to carry around now and then.

As to the nod yes it is amazing just how many nuamces there are to such a simple gesture.

Absaroka