Is every CD really a TG?

[Heather W]

A while back there was a thread where someone made the comment something to the effect of the difference between a CD and a TG is 2 years and recently someone I email back and forth told me they have been told a CD is just a TG in denial. As one who once thought of myself as a CD but came to realize I was more it has gotten me to thinking are there more out there who think like this?

First let me say here that I do not believe either of these statements. IMHO there are tremendous differences but am not going into them here. I will say that being TG or CD is just something one is born and one cannot make someone either nor can one be "cured" it is just who you are. Granted with some they come to the realization later in life than others but that is another discussion for another time. It had always been there.

I am curious how others feel about statements like I noted above and what other myths or misstatements are floating around out there. Thoughts girls?

[KimberlyS]

Heather I too was told the line "the difference between a CD and a TS is 2 years". I edited for the time I heard it. At that time TG was just starting to be an umbrella term and we were CD, TV or TS. I heard it on the first forum I was a part of. There was the full spectrum on the site. And interestingly the those that either had or were working on transitioning were the vocal ones as they had figured out what they had wanted or needed. Those of us on the CDing end were still trying to accept who we were and figure out who we were. I know many of the vocal ones may have had good intentions about helping us and pushing us along, but we are all not going down the same path with the same end of our journey. That site along with a non-accepting spouse made me look within and figure out who I was and what I wanted and needed. I did like being feminine and dressing my self to show my feminine self. But I am a guy and like being a guy. So that I am, a guy that likes to show his femininity at times.

So Heather I am with you and do not agree with that statement either. I am a believer of the Gender Spectrum. There are masculine males on one end and feminine females at the other end. And in between there is every combination you can imagine. We must each look within our self and define who we are and not be told who we are. Personally I am CDing male with many feminine traits that like to look feminine at times.

kimberlys

[Davita]

*sigh* Are we looking for authoritative definitions or folk-isms? I decided to look for some authoritative sources. I found this one, https://health.ucdavis.edu/diversity-in ... -Plus.html, but no date stamp. Not quite what I was looking for, but very useful as real resources, includes: https://www.wpath.org/ and the book, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK64810/.

Honestly, I feel like we are beating a dead horse with all this labeling of who we think we are. We are a struggling minority based on sexual preferences, gender identities and gender presentations.

[DonnaT]

IMHO, TG is an umbrella term and include CDs, if the CDs believe they are TG.

Many CDs do not consider themselves to be TG, and only they can self identify to their truth.

Me, I'm CD/TG.

[Ralitsa]

I agree with Davita, I don't see any use in trying to apply labels or try to "explain" what people are. I would be hard pressed to tell anyone which of those boxes I should go in - well except I would say I don't live in a box.
But for what it's worth, probably often times a person who cross dresses later finds that they want more; and often times not. Are we counting percentages? I don't see much value in pigeonholing people.

That's why I like the current trend of leaving off the LGBT part and just calling us queer. In the sense that queer means odd or unusual, I can really embrace that

[Amanda R]

According the American Psychiatrist Association guidelines everyone from the simple panty wearer to the individual who has undergone GCS is classified as transgendered. Granted the APA acknowledges there are varying degrees of being TG though there is some disagreement as to how many levels and how one identifies who fits into which one. Let me say here I and many of my colleagues disagree with this lumping all under a single label as there are different issues with each group and sub group as well as each group requires and deserves more personalized treatment.

I believe Heather's initial question more refers to is every CD in reality a TG candidate for transition and potential surgery. The answer to that is a resounding no! .Studies have shown the vast majority of those who fall under the umbrella of TG are heterosexual crossdressers who neither desire to make major changes in their life nor are candidates for those changes.

As for the comment of "which box do you fit into" no one should ever feel the need to fit into a box. We are all individuals a product of our genetics and environment. One only needs to look at the CD community to see how seem comfortable totally closeted while others are out in the world to see there are vast differences in any identified group. My advice to all is to live your life as you feel fit to do and are comfortable with. To those of you who feel the need to fit into a box build that box yourself to accommodate your needs and comfort level.

[Ralitsa]

So the definition by the American Psychiatrist Association sounds to me like an exercise in phraseology and doesn't sound very useful. Too bad for them.
I think Amanda has the best idea of not worrying about what label to stick on the person, just figure out how to help them be happy.

[Wesley]

Wow. . what a topic.

I will add that I feel more akin to Kimberly and her assessment. . BUT that one of the things that motivates my occasional admonitions about progressing to medical intervention level of transgenderism is a realization I had several years ago. I think some will agree.

I started cross dressing with bra and panties back around 1973. At that time, I would don these garments at night (I was in the 12 to 14 age range) for sexual purposes. . predictably, over time the feelings were internalized and wearing a bra and panties became associated with normalcy for sexuality for me. I would add there were no associated traumas associated with my cross-dressing. . never molested, touched inappropriately, nothing of that sort.

As time progressed, I needed a bit more. . the first addition were foam pads (made from some left over foam padding for upholstery) to fill out the 36A bra. This over time also became normalized even though I had no clue what I was doing to myself. Through out my teenage years, I had a girlfriend, and although we never had intercourse, she was accepting of my cross dressing and I never had any trouble getting an erection or excitement over the opposite sex.

Sometime in 9th grade, (about 1975) I had to take a class at night school. . I still vividly remember wearing panties one night, and being quiet fearful of that fact somehow being exposed, but it never did, and the thrill of underdressing had began. (the next step on the continuum)

After a few years, I felt great going to work wearing a thin bra, and panties under my otherwise male exterior. (underdressing in public had began), I had started going out on my own and purchasing lingerie for me. . My then wife, helped and also had no issues with my cross-dressing. . It was always an indescribable thrill to be wearing lingerie under my clothing. . as I explained to a later wife, it was if I had a secret. There was a subtle thrill at the fear of being discovered, but a satisfaction in getting away with it. This phase continued for many years and today.

The next step up was adding subtle women's shoes, such as keds, and in the early 90's women's Nike, Adidas and other brand shoes. To this day, only a single person in public ever noticed, and that was a fellow who recognized I was wearing keds in a book store. . he never said a word but just stood with his mouth agape, and standing in front of me, looking at my shoes, back to my head and back again. . Strange. . In the last dozen years, I have started wearing ballet flats and on occasion low heels that were camouflaged by pant legs. . I also wear thin ankle socks or trouser socks with such shoes. . again, unnoticed. but that familure fear and satisfaction is still ever-present.

About 1995 or so, my then wife bought a pair of silicon breast forms, such that they would fill a 36 ish B bra. It was a whole new level of heaven for me, as they offered a feeling of realism that amazed me. I later progressed to some amoena forms that were more expensive and even more realistic.

The only next place to go was visiting goodwill stores to buy a feminine wardrobe. In short order, I could visit all 5 of the major stores in the city area, and more important, NO ONE would give me a second look if I went in the dressing room with a skirt or dress to try on. . I soon ended up with two closets of women' clothing.

THIS IS WHERE THINGS START TO CHANGE.

I can wear such bra, forms etc to work and no one notices. An amazing feeling. About 2000 or so, I had started having my chest and back waxed. . yet another level of amazing feeling which progressed to having my legs, chest and back waxed. . a great feeling and satisfied the next higher level of stimulation.

The year was now 2010 to 2015. At which point I started to reflect, "WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE?" and this was where I started to understand how some people did not recognize the line that was or could be crossed at this point. Why not go transsexual, get on hormones, get a boob job??. . . The only real next step up from the standpoint of escalation of stimulation.

I considered it. . seriously. My immediate family was dead by this time, my close friends were dispersed across the United States. . No pesky questions, no one that I would ever have to answer to. (I was divorced by this time as well) It was all up to me. . I had to do some serious soul searching and contemplation to do. .

And it took a few years, but I realized I was on an ever present escalator chasing a successively more involved high. From just putting on a bra and panties to this. . wow.

After carefully considering everything, I concluded that I liked having male parts, and how those parts worked, and how wonderful sex and climax could be. . I enjoyed the things that went with being a man. . and more importantly, that I did not want to be a woman. . I wanted to be able to take a damn bra off once in a while, go shirtless, and with that came the realization that I might never find an escalation to this level after this.

You see, the whole thing is akin do drug use, and abuse. you are ALWAYS chasing a better high, and NEVER really getting it. You can do some new things but that will never be the same.

I cannot chase a higher level of being feminine without altering my body. . taking hormones that will drastically change how my body treats calcium and moves it around (think osteoporosis) That after a while I will never get an erection again, that at some point my blood will thicken every so slightly due to the presence of estrogen. . that my musculature will fade, and I will be susceptible to a lot of medical conditions I do not want.

All in all a decision I was and am not willing to make. . Yeah, I am a lowly cross dresser. . Not a more suave and sophisticated transwoman. My parts work fine, and I realize that I came close to making changes that I could not retreat from. . .

I would also add that I have a girlfriend who is aware that I crossdress and she too is good with that fact.

I am good with that.

[Ralitsa]

I love going back to these old posts (this one's not that old really, but anyway....) and thinking about how societal opinion (to the extent I know it) and my own thinking has changed in the intervening years.

My own experience was very much like Wesley's. And up to several years ago I would also have said that I made the decision not to take steps that would permanently alter my body - but now that's changed.

Why? Here are a few pieces of data that may or may not help explain anything. Six years ago I started working for a different company that is accepting and supportive, which now means that I can wear the clothes and present myself in the way I prefer. My youngest daughter has announced herself to be bi, and has a few friends that are gay. My second youngest daughter has a lot of gay friends, and may or may not be herself but isn't at the point where she wants to say anything about it. It's clear (much to the chagrin of certain people) that being LGBTQ is rather fashionable lately. Since I've fully embraced my preferred appearance I find that I'm more comfortable, happy and confident. So now physically changing my body doesn't seem to be "chasing the next high" but rather being fully consistent. So has my thinking changed because of the changes around me making it easier? Or was that always going to happen anyway? Did I not fully understand myself years ago; do I understand myself now; am I a different person now; did my thinking change because my behavioral changes or was it the other way around?
So I don't consider myself to be a woman trapped in a man's body. I would categorize it more as having formerly been male and now evolving past that. One of the points I made a couple years ago, that trying to find definitions that pigeonhole everyone, is futile and not helpful. But 20 years ago I would have said that I was a plain boring CD, and not an exciting transwoman. I'm not sure I can say I'm a transwoman now; I can say that there is a part of me that want's to be a woman but I also recognize that it is wishful thinking more than it is reality.
Clearly the idea that everything is binary (black and white; male and female; good and bad) is totally BS. And all the stereotypes that go with that is also BS. At one point in my life I would have said that I was a man who just didn't conform to the stereotypes - and so in the gender nonconforming pigeonhole. But I don't even like that definition anymore.

Anyway, there are some random thoughts to spice up the conversation on a rainy Saturday morning!

[Wesley]

Just a quick follow up on this thread. . .

So the whole Transgender/CD thing has really heated up in the last year, and the discussion appears to be nothing like what it was a year or two ago. As things stand, I am still quite content to underdress in my normal day to day living. Bra, size 5 forms, panties, black ballet flats, knee high socks. .

And I am still fine with that. Most of my friends are aware, and could care less.

I notice that the surgery and its results are starting to come to the forefront of public attention. It is amazing to note how little members of the public seem to know about the issue. But it is interesting to note that the subreddit r/detrans has some 45 thousand members. Granted, not all are those who are detransitioning or desisting. Many are doubting, and starting to recognize the significant comorbidity of pathology in such persons.

The next few years should be interesting to watch.

Just my 02 cents.

[Ralitsa]

time for another update!

I just started a new topic that also has some of my thoughts on this subject.
Going all the way back to the original question of "are there others like me?" by Heather, the answer is "Yes, I am."
It was way more than 2 years (more like 40) but I'm now completely sure that I want to be a woman. I'm going to ignore all the other questions that could be asked on that subject though.

And I still don't believe it's true that every CD is really TG. I still think some of us are, many are not. I've been taking hormones for almost a year, and am planning for surgery. Maybe when I was young it was about "chasing the next high" but it's not now. I feel comfortable, satisfied, confident, happy, and at ease with myself now. I don't feel pressured to be something I'm not like I did before.

On the one hand I'm happy that people now are mostly more accepting of us; on the other hand it makes the haters way more noisy and violent. I have a co-worker with a child that's struggling with gender identity, to the point where it's life threatening. They live in Georgia, which is not as bad as Florida or Texas, but bad enough. Well the good thing is that her child is getting help and support, the bad thing is there is still a lot of haters on all these social media places who have an opinion they try to force on us. I do believe the haters are a small and VERY LOUD minority though. I'm not surprised that the public in general know so little about the subject but I am astonished at how loudly some people broadcast their ignorance and stupidity. I mean, when I don't know what I'm talking about I try to avoid talking - that's most of the time

[Wesley]

Wow,
I stopped by to see how things were going on this website, and notice that most forums have not been posted on in literally years. The generally few posts that are made are in reference to this topic.

I would offer that the issue of cross dressing has been almost totally co-opted by the TG issue. Something I was concerned about some time back. This is indeed a sad development, as our community is letting some degree of people down by NOT defending our choices and that it actually is possible to be a crossdresser without necessitating emergence as a Transgender person.

Needless to say, I stand firmly on the No, every CD is NOT a TG side. It appears however that I am in the minority these days.

-Wesley

[Diana Michelle]

I'm sorry you feel that way Wesley. From everything I have seen and read here most if not all agree 100% with the fact that most CDs are not TG in the transition or surgery sense.

As for the lack of activity here, that is a completely different issue. I have my thoughts as to why that is occurring, some of which may be controversial, so I keep them to myself.