Interesting observation regarding transgender and Crossdress

[Anne Bonny]

Seems to be us three...I wonder if I might seek to start such a group...but would have to meet in another location...maybe a caravan far in the woods...Ha! But It would be very nice to be able to do what we do here live for an evening or two a month...I believe we all bring what we have experienced and learned over a lifetime of living with our gender challenge...providing support and advice and sharing would be fun...A lingerie night, a sleepwear night...make up night...and other topics would probably be fun with a table of fruits and veggies and dip and some Champagne...

Being effectively single as I slowly watch the last phase of my dying wife's life pass from Alzheimer's...I am an RN with an active licence she is well cared for and loved but sadly....it is like being a single man again though I am ever faithful and will be until she is gone...duty and honor. Anyway being alone and being broad minded too I could easily enjoy a diverse group as well because of the depth of experiences and how interesting it all is...I bet there would still be warm support, and good advice and tips on clothing and make up and fun etc....Hi Diana....Anne

[Wesley]

Diana,

First to qualify, I did not mention the article to start a political discussion about the transgender issue. Only to illustrate that the tide may be changing.

Totally agree it might make for an "interesting topic" topic elsewhere. It may turn into a raucous however!

A couple of points I would like to bring up. First is to address the pervasive issue of "Inclusion and diversity" I looked at an OKC area Transgender support group. Under programs they list:

Equality Business Alliance
Bisexual programs Support group/ Resources / Research /
Children and Family
Counseling Services,
Dream act Oklahoma
Facility
Art Gallery
LGBT History project
LGBT Youth
LGBT older Adults
Sports Alliance
Transgender support
Women's programs

Not a thing about Crossdressing. A phone call to the support number and requests about support garner a generic, "We believe in supporting and encompassing all transgendered individuals. . . .
Do you have a support group for Crossdressers family members?
No, Not specifically. . .But we encourage family members to attend support meetings . ..
What sort of issues are discussed? Mostly transgender issues?

Sounds very inclusive. unless you are a crossdresser, who has considered the matter carefully for years and concluded you have no desire to alter your biological assignment.

Lets look at another group, Fetlife, "Crossdressers/TG in Oklahoma" (See here: https://fetlife.com/groups/70192" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Ten comments to a page. The first has 9 people looking for hookups and my message about a support group. Pretty much the same on the other page.

So can you please point me to an "Inclusive and diversity" based group that even mentions crossdressers?

By the way, why is this forum called Crossdressers-Haven.com? Isn't that EXCLUSIVE? AT least SUSAN's TRANSGENDER is state transgender and has a section for crossdressers?

Do you see my point? When you throw out "Inclusion and diversity" You really have a group with little in common? Are the needs of gay women the same as crossdressers? What about white guys who like to crossdress but are into BDSM? What about the needs of a 13 year old boy who believes himself to be wrong gendered and wanting assignment? Throw him in with a group of 50 something transgender individuals?

Of course, I am speaking in generalities. But the point is the same. Tri-ess philosophy spells out exactly what their mission is:

F - Full personality expression in both its masculine and its feminine aspects. We do not wish to destroy our masculinity, but to soften its harsher aspects, and be all we can be.

I - Integration of masculinity and femininity to create a happier whole person.

B - Balance between masculinity and femininity.

E - Education or crossdressers and their families toward self-acceptance; education of society toward accepting crossdressing people.

R - Relationship-building in the context of crossdressing.

Notice, "We do not wish to destroy our masculinity. . . " Many transgender people DO. . . Big difference. I did not find anything about Education of crossdressers and families about crossdressing on transgender sites. Nor do I find GLBT or bisexual outreach programs here. Why is that?

Shouldn't everyone waving the diversity flag be for opening up this group to transgender? Perhaps TRANSGENDER HAVEN? Granted there is a transgender space here, but it is not allowed to dominate all discussions. Why do we separate Transgender and crossdressing?

I and others want and need to be around other Crossdressers, My wife wants to meet other crossdressing wives. Do you seriously deny that under "Diversity and inclusion?" Diversity does not mean "to make homogenous"

"Diversity: the condition of having or being composed of differing elements : variety; especially : the inclusion of different types of people (as people of different races or cultures) in a group or organization <programs intended to promote diversity in schools>" -Source Merriam Webster.

[Anne Bonny]

I agree... There is a mania that seeks to eradicate with a process that has no end and no limit which reacts violently to any kind of definition or limit that would state simply this is a group for Cross Dressers. The mania eats such people alive prodding them to decimate and destroy the possibility that some group could exist which desires to meet with others who are alike because they share similar problems and questions.

You are absolutely correct in your observation that the Term "Transgender" brings with it a laundry list of anything and everything even completely unrelated political agendas because the mania finds any logical definition and limits anathema. The mania does not allow for common sense limitations...they would argue "but how do you define what is and is not common sense!?" They abhor absolutes because they want a never ending process to continue without any logical limitations to proceed in an infinite manner. These people see any limitations as obscene...Racist, sexist, bigoted, etc....

Ok... I get it. the term definitely does carry meaning and implications.

Cross Dressers would be the correct term because we need our own group so that our issues are addressed and not shoved out the door after being supplanted with a laundry list of groups and issues while we would find ourselves trampled underfoot and shoved out the door.

Yeah! We need our own defined group...Tri-ess seems to have the right idea but for that group to survive and thrive for cross dressers and their wives and families definite defined limits need to be put into place to act as a gate keeper so that the chapters are not hijacked and trampled underfoot.

I think I am going to look up the site.

I am not hostile and do not seek to separate myself from the overarching broad term "Transgender" but Tri-ess is for cross dressers. Transgender groups would be for everyone and everything that would fit under that extremely large umbrella.

I remember and still have a copy of the documentary "All dressed up with no place to go" I believe the founder of Tri-ess was on there at the beginning talking about that organization. It was made back in the 90's so I have it on VHS it can be found on you tube too in several segments.

Ah...here is the link...JoAnn Roberts...https://youtu.be/Kr-UYB_3_Y8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Oops...their organization is called The Renaissance Club....but I do believe tri-ess is mentioned somewhere in this hour long + documentary. Or perhaps I came across Tri-ess in all of my online wanderings back in the 90's.

[Wesley]

Anne,

Thank you for bearing with me. I would offer that the mania of which you speak is the war of idea's being waged under the flag of political correctness. It also highlights the danger of the constant revision of language and waging war on terminology that does not fit someone's agenda. Meaning and implementations are VERY important. Many of us here, started crossdressing before the advancement of unmitigated political correctness. (50's to the 70's)

I will always reject the level of transgender. I don't want to bridge or change anything. I will take exception with anyone who tries to convince me that I am transgender. This is one of the main reasons, I feel so passionate about a crossdressing support group.

You stated, "Cross Dressers would be the correct term because we need our own group so that our issues are addressed and not shoved out the door after being supplanted with a laundry list of groups and issues while we would find ourselves trampled underfoot and shoved out the door." And you are so correct. This is one reason I enjoy this group, it remains dedicated to "CROSSDRESSING" and not the plethora of other issues dedicated to modifying ones biological assignment.

I have no issue if someone takes the label "Transgender" Nor do I feel our feelings, emotions and actions are totally at odds with Transgender individuals. There are quantifiable differences however. It certainly seems many in the transgender communities DO have issues with our choosing a different label. We are suppose to be free to self identify and control our own destinies. I joined this group 8 years ago (2008) as I felt the interaction with other people in simular circumstances would be beneficial for myself and my wife. She was active and gained much from the interaction with other spouses on this forum as well.

Anne, I will say, at some point, the mania will subside. At some point, Political correctness will fade. At some point, the younger generation will likely realize that the promises of gender reassignment were never realized as promised, and many will realize that crossdressing meets their needs much more confidently than professing a wide sloth that is "Transgender."

Regards,
Wesley

[Emily]

I will always reject the level of transgender. I don't want to bridge or change anything. I will take exception with anyone who tries to convince me that I am transgender. This is one of the main reasons, I feel so passionate about a crossdressing support group.

Interesting point, Wesley. Some people reject labels, some don't, but its up to the individual to determine where they fit in. Nobody can dictate how you feel, what you think or how you perceive yourself... which brings me to my question.

A support group strictly for crossdressers is a great idea. Why not? But would I fit in? Would I be accepted?

I am through and through a crossdresser. I have my male side and I have my fem side. It took me a while to accept that and I'm OK with that... but deep, deep down, if I was to be completely honest with myself - I do sometimes wish I was born female. Especially when I was younger... I didn't understand it at the time, and I only sort of get it now. For the most part, crossdressing satisfies my desires to feel like a woman, but there had been times I thought that maybe I should go speak to a gender counsellor. But, I'm not going to get into all that right now. All in all, if I were to label myself, I'm a crossdresser... albeit with hmmmm...? trans tendencies, let's say.

I feel that the support group you are proposing would be of a benefit to me and that I too would have something to offer. I would absolutely respect the limitations. But... because I may bury my transgendered feelings, would that then exclude me from the group?

[Anne Bonny]

I am gender fluid...part of who I am internally feels quite distinctly feminine and when that part of who I am is seated in place my male gender moves over and hibernates for a while with it's unique feelings, likes and desires.

When this occurs I cross dress because Anne my name for this part of who I am has her own unique feelings, likes, and desires and she being feminine quite understandable wants to wear her clothes and etc...and I go about my day...

All of us do, and others are free to reject the term as not applicable to them, fall under the umbrella term Transgender.

I realized long ago because I have two distinct genders inside of me that flow back and forth and especially because I spend most of my life living primarily and quite happily as the heterosexual man that I am that any surgery to have implants, or to have my genitalia altered and rearranged from what can be used while some of it is discarded so that my genitalia would be practically indistinguishable from that of a female...for myself would be absolutely a mistake for myself personally. It is perfectly alright to fantasize or to wish on occasion or to entertain such ideas because it sounds very gratifying but when my male gender moves back into place I realize this is wrong for me...I am not a transsexual, and will never progress along a path that would lead to reassignment counseling and surgery.

So while I am a Cross Dresser...I do feel personally for myself that there is a little more going on with me...gender fluidity...there are two competing genders in my head that flow back and forth leading me to dress accordingly but the greater part of who I am is male, I am a heterosexual man that is the greater part of who I am. Anne is also part of who I am but she is the lesser light....Sun and moon I suppose.

[Lacey Hadley]

As a crossdresser or IMO I prefer the classic term transvestite I am a generic male, who lives most of my life in drab, as a typical male, I do mostly male things as such I think mostly male as such. Yes, my feminine side is always just beneath the surface. I believe these feminine feelings help temper my male side in many ways, but they do not subjugate my male side to some of irrelevance. My feminine side makes me feel special to me and myself as an in drab male.

When I dress fully especially with make up and hair I am feminine and portray myself as Lacey. I want to and have a feminine name when I am fully dressed as I feel like a female and act as much like one as I can. Being fully dressed as Lacey gives me a sense of peace, a pleasant distraction from my male normative of life. I am a girl, lady, female, woman, my 'pronouns' (IMO this need for many is nonsense) would be when dressed as Lacey are HER, SHE, MISS, MA'AM. When I am in my 99% male life even if under dressed with female clothing I am HE, HIM, SIR, MR.

If a person is TRANS, they are transitioning to the gender they identify with. For that I think great, I so want them to find solace in their lives. We are born MALE or FEMALE, That is it! Humans obviously find that many feel or believe that they opposite to the gender they are born as. Science, medicine can allow them now to make the physical and life changing things to bring them to the gender of who they believe they are. Again I think it's great. They should be in peace if mind and society should accept them for the gender they live, appear and portray. Just as when I am fully dressed as Lacey I would ask society to treat me as a female. As a cder I'm only partaking in the female gender not living it.

There are not 3-31-56-700-1billion genders. People and IMO most are self-serving activists who push this are NOT doing any transgender persons, crossdressers, or whatever persons any favours. Quite to the contrary they are inviting often through their militant and obstinate ways PUSH BACK by the 99.5% of the adult population who DO NOT GET IT and DO NOT WANT IT! Especially by having it pushed on them by ignorant, arrogant government and government actions.

If you are a born male who feels female, you transition (aka: TRANSGENDER) to being so if you desire. If you are a born female who feels male, you transition to being so if you desire. Nobody should stop you from doing so if you are of age majority and of sound mind. Minors may with parents and doctors help and consent portray the gender they feel they are but IMO no permanent changes to their bodies should be allowed. No hormones until at least a teenager say 13-14 and with proper professional care. I'm sorry but this is how I feel.

IMO 'snowflakes' are and have created this 10-31-56-77- whatever genders. They IMO do it for mostly attention as IMO most under the age of 25 have been told YES YOU CAN! much of their whole lives and that they are special at all things. But they are also brought up in a society with no winners or losers, nobody fails, we don't keep score, we all get trophies or ribbons. This is counter to the idea of BEING TOLD THEY ARE SPECIAL! If I'm special why does everyone get the same. So IMO many of these snowflakes especially during puberty go all this gender fluid stuff, I'm not a boy, I'm not a girl, I am how I feel today, I may feel different tomorrow. Puberty is already hard enough folks we do not need society to mess these kids minds up more with this 10-31-56-77 whatever gender stuff. These gender fluid, ask me my pronoun people will be likely messed up their whole lives as a result.

Say you are 16 Y.O. male who puts on make up, a dress and heels to go to school you should be called when dressed as such a SHE, HER or MISS. Tomorrow when you dress as a dude you should be called a HE, HIM. MR. If you are say a 16 Y.O. female and you buzz shave your head and you wear torn jeans, Daytons and have boxer shorts showing, I guess first being female one may ask are you a "butch" or are you identifying as male? If she says I am being a male then fine call her a He, Him, Mr. If tomorrow she puts on a dress and makeup then she is being a girl and should be called SHE, HER, MISS.

By pushing on to the 99.5% of society these many genders and pronouns, one invites push back by this society and possible violence as this silent majority is confused and maybe angry from being told what to say and do. In Canada our current federal govt. has a ludicrous bill C-16 which if passed will make it illegal to NOT call a person by the pronouns they say they want to be called. This socialistic attack on liberty of thought and speech is wrong and will if enacted have bad consequences. Laws based on FEELINGS are always bad laws. If this law passes I'm going to demand that my pronoun be "Your Lord Master". SILLY EH!?!?!

I have no expectations of society concerning my feelings. I have no compulsion to respect another person's feelings. Now of course I live life and out of natural human compassion I may empathize to another person's feelings, because I feel for them and my compassion is genuine. If I'm forced by law to care for another person's feelings, my apparent care is NOT genuine and I will likely resent it and show this resentment. THIS IS NOT GOOD!

Look, if I'm out and all dolled up as Lacey, I have no expectations for any others to like me, nor care for me. I only expect and laws will support me to be left alone and on my freedom to come and go as I see fit in peace. I have rights and expectations to not be verbally and/or physically assaulted. If though I hear in passing a guy or gal, guys or gals call me a faggot, queer, pansy, homo, well SUCH IS LIFE! IMO they would be jerks, morons and aholes, but also it will be their loss because in my life I am one Hell of a nice and polite person especially en femme! If I'm at a business and they mistreat me because I'm en femme, they invite possible litigation. As a business they need to be professional and treat me like any other customer. That said why should I give them my business if they are being unlikable to me? I would be best to walk out and KEEP MY MONEY from them, again THEIR LOSS!

There are going to be some grey areas over all of this, as that is life in humanity but when a minority (ANY MINORITY IN LIFE) pushes a majority too far, too fast and without concern about how the majority feels, this and any minority doing so will gets it's just desserts. I as a crossdresser DO NOT want to get caught up by association from IMO a militant minority pushing too hard against the majority so that I may get some of the blow back and maybe hurt or even worse.

Sorry if my rant offends some here. That is not my intent. I merely provoke healthy talk and thoughts. PEACE OUT!

[Wesley]

Lacey,

My congratulations on a well thought out and reasoned response. It is quite apparent to me that you know exactly who you are. Your point that our feminine feelings balance your masculine identity is quite accurate. Those of us, who crossdress and have no desire to change biological assignment do just that. We enjoy expressing our feminine side, be it via underdressing, crossdressing at home or being able and comfortable enough to pass. It brings a great amount of stress relief.

Amazingly, there are lots of civilians (generic heterosexual non crossdressers) who have no problem with active crossdressers. They are pleasant and respectful and willingly make reference to the pronouns we would prefer when dressed. (Ma'am, hers, she. . etc) additionally, such people are always polite unless pushed by a bully transgenderist. If I run into a crossdresser, I don't know, I will make an effort to say hello and tell them they look nice. . Just a little confidence builder.

I have definitely seen push back and resentment from most people when the title IX issue of "Transgender being allowed to use the bathroom of their choice" It was ill conceived and ill timed. As I have pointed out in many discussions about the issue, true crossdressers NEVER want to stand out our be noticed in a bathroom. We recognize that could turn ugly and we certainly do NOT want to stand out, but fit in and not raise interest by others. However, there are many transgender individuals who seem to garner their greatest thrill from forcing the issue and making a public spectacle to prove their point. In doing so, such individuals do significant damage to OUR cause of wanting to not stand out or draw attention.

You make a good point about the numbers of genders. Genetically, there are only two. One with two X chromosomes, the other with an X and a Y chromosome. You can modify the physical body of one to be the other, but genetic XY will never have ovaries, NEVER get to experience monthly cycles and the pains associated with, or endometriosis or pregnancy.

If however, an adult, and as you mentioned if the person is "of age majority and of sound mind" and they are making an informed choice, its great that modern medicine allows such options.

One the idea of being required to address people as they wish, It seems like NYC recently enacted such an ordinance. I cannot fathom how this has not been taken up the the American Civil Liberties Union. This is precisely the behavior that the First Amendment of the Constitution was designed to prevent. "Congress shall make no law regarding. . . Freedom of speech" and extended by the 14th Amendment. Once again, all the activists have done is give the general public more reason to dislike such behavior and strengthen their resolve. No one is going to dictate speech to me.

Kindest Regards,

[Anne Bonny]

I agree there are not a bizillion different sexes just two Male and Female (though there are those who have ambiguous genitalia or who may indeed have some of both...perhaps it would qualify as a third or in between sex? But it is really just a genetic mistake leading to a deformity). Orientation...Hetero, homo, bi. I agree genders are Masculine or Feminine. I will defend being gender fluid personally because when I read about it it fit what I was experiencing internally better than any descriptor I had ever come across. I don't know what your experience is, we are all unique. All I will say is I do feel two very distinct genders inside my head. When I am seated on my mostly masculine side My desires, interests, how I feel emotionally, and things I like and enjoy are mostly the same as what I feel when my gender is seated on my feminine side but there are differences. My personality is fixed in place, as is my voice and my mannerisms mostly there may be a little softening in those but not much. I mean I do not seek to play act a woman's voice or mannerisms...I may though not go for my booming loud voice, or my larger bounding sweeping motions.

As a man I have no desire for anything to do with things feminine...no desire to wear feminine clothing, make up, jewelry but when my feminine gender is seated into place there most certainly is interest in such things...interest in shopping for feminine items...make up, jewelry, shoes, clothing. I have the desire to be with women because I feel a connection. my emotions are a little more sensitive...

What I am saying is I really do feel a definite gender shift inside...call it what you will I feel a flow from one gender state of being to the other and that is why gender fluid is such a great description.

So all this term means is there are a lot of cross dressing people out there who feel they can be described as being gender fluid.

I acknowledge others do not feel any of this but experiencing this very definite internal shifting I can verify for myself that it is quit real.

Ambiguous...it is possible to feel and experience this...there may be some out there who feel this way all the time...and they mix and match, fine I acknowledge that. I feel angst and very uncomfortable ant crawling feelings when I feel torn between wanting to go one way or the other but cannot decide but it is usually a transitory state depending on which gender I want to be in more as long as there are no reasons to resist it as when someone is present or coming who does not know Anne or who would not approve.

Ok...you are free to disagree and to shrug it off. All's I can say is I used to think I was experiencing a state of temporary insanity or delusional thinking because when I felt myself shift back to my male side I was shaking my head kind of amazed perplexed and disagreeing with now, about what I moments before I was very into, in terms of how I was feeling, what I was wanting and desiring and planing to do. I realized though that those thoughts feelings and desires were not temporary insanity but were just consistent with the way any woman would feel want and desire...l was not being crazy...not for Anne. you see? I am trying to improve understanding of what I experience. It is not insanity or delusional if what is felt etc is quite normal for one gender or the other. This is exactly what the phenomenon of being gender fluid is. Next time you are crossdressing...think about this....is it for you just a sexual fetish ... Transvestic fetishism meaning primarily it is about pleasure and shame and sexual gratification....OR do you actually feel feminine inside which leads you in that direction until you once again begin to feel masculine feelings growing leading you back in that direction? Some are Drag Queens and get a thrill out of the performance... My life long self psychological assessment and search for understanding and meaning have brought me here and for myself being gender fluid explains exactly who I am and what I experience within myself this is who I am. I am a cross dresser....I would fit under the umbrella term Transgender though I do believe the origin of that term has more to do with transsexuals implying changing gender...trans...but I suppose trans can also describe trans in terms of trans clothes or gender. I have these two genders but my primary gender is masculine, I am a man I am heterosexual and I have absolutely no desire to change my physical sex, it would be wrong unless primarily I felt feminine all of the time or perhaps 90% of the time. This is why surgery is contraindicated for myself, realistically I live my life because I am a man most all of the time...at least 60% of the time probably much more than that 85-90%??

[Stephanie M]

I've looked locally for a support group for crossdressers, all I can find is groups for transgender, while we have similarities, we are also different and as the OP said we want to reassure our wives we aren't interested in changing our body parts, well maybe my hair

[Noeleena]

Hi.

Im not an activist I don't push others buttons and don't stand on street corners say this is what so called society should do , in fact I have seen what this does and in the north of Australia was a group who did all that carry on.

We had one of them on our 27,000 member forum , this person was told to ether stop going on or walk the person concerned walked, they caused so much trouble they were given a wide side stepping .

What it did was put peoples backs up and make issues for others that were not there,

I have talked to many 10,s of 1000,s of people and nation wide, I never had any issues I invited people to see for them selfs , what its like being different I answed many ?,s the Heading was whats it like being a female who,s different , I have reached many 1000,s and I had people,s blessing in doing so,

A lot of what went on was demands you have to accept we will pass law,s so you will and so on, and what happened they became very disliked and its worse now than many years ago, just because these hard line activist,s went through the china shop like the Bull and smashed every thing in sight,

What a pity , they in their time destroyed what was working, end of.

Theres a way in reaching people I worked at it and had help in doing so, you know what was lovely and really neat people got behind me and went with me in my trip of life, that was / is so wonderfull. and quess what I have friends I can never ever repay, and I have so many friends its not in the 100,s only.

How does this work very simply you open your heart to others and invite them to walk with you, and they see you as a person they get to know you and love you,,,,, for you ,,,,,,,

...noeleena...

[Anne Bonny]

Great Noeleena! Activism and force only creates a powerful rejection that takes us backwards and may lead to violence against some of us.

Your way is the way to do it...I have used my "radar" and so far it has not failed me so that people I broach the topic to that I cross dress have all so far been very open and supportive. I cannot say that in every case they are not just playing up to my face while their brain is thinking something very different but so far I have not experienced rejection. I aim only to share my femm side with people who seem open, accepting, etc...seems to work well.

Your way is to lead the parade letting the chips fall and have been receiving overwhelming acceptance by nearly everybody of so it seems...congrats.

[Stephanie M]

Great Noeleena! Activism and force only creates a powerful rejection that takes us backwards and may lead to violence against some of us.

I agree with that. Whenever anyone is in people's faces and demands that you accept them it will push more people away. If people could learn that everyone is different and as long as what anyone does doesn't hurt anyone then it's none of your business.

[Wesley]

I am almost overwhelmed by the well thought out and reasoned responses to this.

I have been thinking of the GENDER CONTINUUM over the last few days. That whole:



MALE|--------------------------------------------------0---------------@-------------------------------------| FEMALE


And the little pointer shifts back and forth. . . (You can see where I am "AT")

But this totally has to do with mental attitudes and feelings. In many cases, mine included there is and has been a significant emotional investment in learned and reinforced behavior. (Not all, but many) Our body does not change unless acted upon by outside influences, Diet, exercise, sexual drive (caused by Testosterone), the influence of drugs or hormones.

As many of us began down the crossdressing road at the onset of adolescence, For some reason we donned some feminine item of clothing. There was an immediate reaction. Probably feelings of "I am breaking the rules" but it felt so good. We felt a strange tingle, a threat of being discovered, yet also a feeling of thumbing our noses at societal and family rules and mores. There was a significant hook, almost like heroin. . Brain chemistry started to subtly change and was reinforced the second, third and every time after that.

To be honest, most of us got an immediate sexual thrill as well. WHY do some people react more strongly to that first stimulus-response than others? Many guys try it once and never return, many of us did. . .

Each time, more reinforcement. also, brain chemistry was at work. As with a anodyne drug. (pain killing) over time we gained tolerance to the behavior and it took just a little more stimulus to achieve the same result. .

BUT THEN. . .

Some time around or late 20's to mid 30's something else had happened. Wearing a bra, panties and whatever else, did not result in an immediate sexual response. We did however, get a certain level of quantifiable relaxation, a feeling of "This is how I should be. . . I am happy and content." For some, due to operant conditioning by family, and possibly other mental issues a profound sense of guilt and revulsion. Those stories usually never end well. . .

So, at this point, we need to wear something to feel more normal, IN CONTROL, relaxed, and at ease. When we are stressed, we dress more. (not always but usually) It is a tactic we use to control stress. . .

BUT AGAIN. . .

I have to wonder, what goes on in the mind of a traditional Macho, or even normal man's mind? I have no doubt we look at women with the same desire. (perhaps a bit more appreciation and sympathy.) But you know those guys do not think of looking at lingerie first when the visit Kohls, or whatever department store. . Or look at womens shoes. . or stop and think, "I have boobs, and nobody is noticing!" (when I am wearing a bra and forms under drab clothing. .

WHAT IS their process? It would seem self apparent they stay more to the masculine side consistently. Consider, have you ever talked to a "macho" guy about simple emotions? Crying for instance? "I NEVER CRY" is their usual response, but how do they deal with an emotion they cannot express. I have no problem crying. . that was one of the things my wife liked about me so much.

I think, in that sense, WE who can exhibit femininity are healthier mentally, than the uptight macho superman.

Allow me to step back a bit. . .

When talking about that tolerance we build, consider a person who continues to become more feminine. I know, for myself, when I am out and about, I will sometimes gently run my hand across my chest and savor the feeling of having boobs. I sometimes wish I had about a 38B size. . But then I run into times where I have worn a bra all day, and a good part of the night. . Hate to admit it, but it is nice to take them off and be a guy.

If a person continues to dwell on increased femininity, It would not seem to far of a leap to believe you would be happier as a woman. Just a theory, but what are the implications if that is the case?

My point here is some people move way beyond crossdressing, some do not. Many of us are in the latter category. Crossdressing needs tend to run towards acceptance, for ourselves and others we choose to include in that aspect of our lives. We need to know that our behavior is not as deviant as our parents and grand parents would have believed. We appreciate and aspire to be more feminine in our day to day living. We also aspire to be normal "guys" from time to time.

We need to be around others like us. Crossdressing is unique in that only another crossdresser really has the potential to understand our feelings. Wives can be great and very supportive, they can also be less than lukewarm in their response. We still need to communicate our feelings. . Why do we want to dress informally with a certain bra one day, and something totally different on another day? How do you really express that we wish we had boobs? Other than, "It feels good." OK But WHY?

Most of our "stuff" can be very mundane. . for example, I finally painted my toenails the other night. FIRST time ever. . Base coat, two coats of good quality polish. . I love it. Its a new feminine behavior. Does anyone really care? Generally not. . But it was good to message my local crossdressing friend and tell him. . .talking about it was as important as doing it. Its not like I can chat one of the other RN's I work with up and have a discussion about it. . .

Do I eagerly want to hear about someones meeting with a reassignment surgeon? Not really.. . Do I want to have a discussion about which bathroom? Not really. . .Are there major laws I want to allow me to defiantly express my behavior in public to people I don't know? No, I prefer to keep my crossdressing to myself in public. . Not draw attention. Do I want to go to someones transgender support group and hijack it to focus on crossdressing? (Remember crossdressing is suppose to fit in the rubric of "transgender?") Once again, no. .

Biggest one. . . I want to introduce my wife to other crossdressers. More importantly, I want an environment where other crossdressers can do the same. To show others that NO, becasue we wear a bra and panties DOES NOT MEAN we want to change gender. Try that trick at a transgender support group. . with your new wife or girlfriend who you are just coming out to. . .

I notice the message body "May contain no more than 60,000 characters. I am thinking we probably have a couple of thousand characters here. . .That is me and 59,999 others!

I have rambled on too long. . .Humble apologies,

Wesley