Perception of femininity

[Crystal Joanne]

Something which I’ve often found myself wondering about is the way we view femininity. For example let’s say we have a person called Barry who everyone sees as a male, but at the weekends Barry transforms into Bianca. Bianca acts like a girl, has in fact many mannerisms and interests which could be seen as feminine, but the entirety of Bianca is largely based on Barry’s own perception of femininity at that moment in time. This perception might come from environmental influences, so a large part of what Bianca currently is could be chiefly attributed to the women Barry knows or sees on television and subconsciously he’s been taking plenty of notes without realising it.

In the beginning it may have just started as nothing more than an unexplainable desire to wear female clothes but whichever way Barry may convince himself otherwise, the clothes are in fact nothing more than clothes. True the materials are softer, they feel so much better than his male clothes and the colours, patterns and styles are far more aesthetically pleasing to Barry. Yet they are still just clothes and don’t have the magical properties which Barry might attribute to them but by the same token they do serve as a conduit to getting in touch with his Bianca mindset.

Gender traditions inform us which clothes are for women and which are for men. To wear clothes of the opposite gender is considered to be crossing a taboo line and since it’s seen by many to be so extreme, Barry could in fact view this desire as some indication that he has a feminine quality deep down which might explain the compulsion. However in the grand scheme of things doing this act still does not make Barry female, it simply means that for one or more reasons at that point in his life it appeases his need to feel as if he is a female based on his own personal view. But where does that need truly come from and is it indeed an indication that in some part large or small Barry has a feminine soul or is just wishful thinking or a desire to find individual self-expression?

In essence at this point a person may see this as a form of self-deception, escapism or reinvention, especially if Barry feels a lot of unhappiness with his male life. However let’s move Barry’s timeline along much further and say over the years Bianca has evolved, more time spent as her means she now has a persona, her own style and interests which remarkably are very different, but ultimately they still come from the same source… Barry!

Now it’s fair to say over the years his perception of what femininity actually is has changed and perhaps a lot of old ideas and misconceptions have been put aside. In fact a very wise man once said that we are all a work in progress.

Nevertheless due to the expectations of how Barry feels he should behave, Bianca can only come out in private and to make things more ordered Barry sees himself as person who has an alter-ego, because that works better and feels safer than admitting he’s the one doing it. Even when he finally manages to tell trusted friends or strangers on the internet the truth, he still describes things as “she thinks and she said” instead of “I think and I feel”.

A separation of self is not considered healthy yet it is explainable/understandable and quite often our mind’s unique method of coping with things which may cause distress and it’s not something which we all feel either. Some people don’t separate things like this at all. In consideration Barry may feel a great deal of shame and guilt due to his dressing as Bianca and this finds itself in direct conflict with the happiness that being her brings him. Perhaps he now feels that he is more sensitive, considerate and fun loving as Bianca than he is as a male. That she has in many ways become the freedom to express himself in a way which he always felt he could not.

But these feelings didn’t just manifest out of a vacuum, they have to in some way have always been there to start with even if they weren't obvious. Time, reflection and understanding can help us begin to understand them but not always fully.

So let’s say we are now at the stage where Barry accepts that everything that Bianca is comes from the same source. That he has in fact finally managed to stop compartmentalising his behaviour. Both Bianca and Barry are the same person and they’ve always been the same person regardless of what clothes she/he might wear.

Yet this only strikes me as self-acceptance and the ability to find peace with one’s self. The person Barry or Bianca became is someone who has a range of behaviour, tastes, emotions and feelings, some of that could be seen as masculine and some seen as feminine.

So riddle me this, is it possible for someone to have this variation which forms the core of your identity yet not be genetically female. But at the same time that person’s perception has vastly evolved over the years to where they eventually feel their femininity is who they truly are and it was always there waiting to come out given the right spark. Is this kind of perception of femininity real, is it definable or in the case of this example I have written just a comforting lie some of us might tell ourselves?

At what point does femininity go beyond mere perception and become a reality or has it always been nothing more than one’s own perception of what it we think and feel it is?

Hopefully my thoughts have given no offence to anyone because that was not my intention. I am very curious about this and would love some insight.

[Noeleena]

Hi.

In my case I don't know what its like to be a male or being a male ,I,m a female born just one who was not born complete, as most people who know who I am know my background I,m taged as an intersexed female or just one out of every 7000 females born with out her womb and organs , okay the rest does not matter,

The mind can be a very powerfull organ and can be manipulated changed by meds Hipnosis or self deceving now any one can say what they wont to be that is not my debate.

I,ll accept any one regardless I don't care and how they dress I also don't care. its not for me to debate that. I have friends ….WHO...ARE...MY...FRIENDS . ..okay clothes mean nothing my friends do,

Now how do we perceive our selfs male or female does it really matter, what difference does it make any way we are on this earth for an alotted time what ever that is so we can if we really wont to get on with each other,

Feminininty depends on how you view this is this in what we wear how we wear it and show our selfs to look lovely pretty and beautyfull to show off our body to best advantage as in sex appeal for the younger of us to gain a boyfriend with in mind to have sex with or marrage and have family.

Or is it part of our nature makeup what makes us who we are, our mind emotions our body in our movements language how we react to others …...to males …. lol,s ...ya okay , there is just so much about us that allows us to be different from men ,

I know this..... I knew this from age 10, I knew nothing about boys or for the next 57 years. its only been the last 3 I have studied learnt asked ?,s talked with guys emailed and skyped guys to learn what makes a guy a guy. I had no knowlage nothing and that was scary as for any thing sexual that was a total ...NO....NO...its only just happening.

yes I have background that scared me witless around men. I really did ...HATE... with an all out hate of men...and took me till 3 years ago to let a guy touch me and hug me.i,m 71 now.

Heres an interesting part. age 10 i did not wont to be a girl ....and i did not wont to be a boy..so living with that how do you get on.

school i was beatup chassed did not join in play time was spent hiding in the girls locker rooms to hide from the boys the girls did not mind and teachers took no note. it was my hiding place. the boys i quess beat me up because i was a girl and did not react to them yet i would have been assumed as a boy in my looks.

so i did not dress as a girl only once at a sunday school end of year do for the church. 1959 , 80 people attended never dressed after that. so when you look at it i did not wont to be a girl or dressed as one so makes me a little strange ....dont you think.

26 years ago , my body started to change some thing i knew would happen my hormones .females . went into a start of body changes and started to over ride my Male hormones and yes this can happen and does for some of us who are intersexed, if you like would be like a girl at age 11 through till 16 aprox took 7 years to go through just nice little changes nothing that was dramatic was just lovely as it went on.i allso had corrective surgerys to go with it, and may have a few more not sure yet.

The only reason i bring this up is not to put myself as being different is just to explain for some of us for what ever reason our bodys are different we are quite normal just different.

My many friends who know me dont see any thing different about me and i,ll say men dont ether though i was scared as to be around men because i did not see myself as normal and that included sexualy. some times it has been very hard to accept myself and not really being a male or a female if you wont to define what i am. other wise i never changed my thinking that has allways been female my hormones are a mix of both and really has been great ,


Body wise for my age and i,m fit active and on the go body shape female weight about right for my height shape to look at me next to other female from age 50 through 70 i stack up pretty good and my men friends think so as well and i was very surprised at that so i have a few lovely details going for myself.


One detail i let others say what they think of myself they will see me watch me and have a better idear how to assess a lot about who i am and that covers most of my interactions and behavour and what,s real and thats every day. and night.

...noeleena...

[Anne Bonny]

Women obviously are genetically female that is their genitalia or physical sex. But women are also from the time they are born based on their physical sex are conditioned and socialized into their role. Women produce female hormones which have an effect on how they feel and think about things. But still there is the brain and it has been shown that those who are trans sexual do have brains which work as female brains do. There is scientific support. I am not a trans sexual but I do believe we who are transgender are driven to our female side because part of our brain is at least partly female. I do believe there is something about our brain that makes us as we are, want to or not, we are not able to do anything about it. We become aware of it at a young age 8-9 but all we know is that we feel different inside without any understanding of it. We are forced because of our male sex, we are conditioned, and socialized and forced to adhere to a role which we know we do not fit into entirely. So we live a lifetime struggling and as you wrote...we without anyone to diagnose or to recognize this or to pull us aside to help us...are forced to figure it out for ourselves. Sadly it is a long process of evolution until we realize this is who we are, this is where we fit and because this is who we are it is quite appropriate for us to dress and to be who we are inside even if we do tend to sway between male and female. Those who are luckier transition because they really are women their brain is female but their body is male. Best we can do is to finally come to realize we are partly both and will always sway between male and female and there is nothing wrong with it because this is who we are!

[Crystal Joanne]

Thanks for the replies and for actually reading something which came across as long-winded and messy. Sadly this is my problem and I often think that just because something I write makes perfect sense to me then it automatically makes sense to someone else... which is usually not the case.

Basically I posted that little story along with my thinking regarding it because I've often been troubled by considering that any femininity I feel is all entirely in my head and an illusion. I considered that because I wanted it so much and to feel it was real I was simply going down the road of wishful thinking. You can call it self-doubt, denial etc. but either way it was something that was bugging me. The story certainly does represent a few of the things I have done and some of it is based loosely on thoughts I've had at different times in my life. But I didn't want to strictly write down my own personal history in case anyone thinks I'm a complete nutcase and that I'm in need of several therapy sessions. Believe me I've experienced that before on a much bigger forum and it was a very negative experience.

What has worried me in the last couple of years of accepting this feminine part of myself was whether years of dressing up as a woman had somehow conditioned my thinking to manifest mannerisms, emotions, interests etc. that were never truly my own. Since femininity isn't something strictly tangible it can be hard for some of us to take it on faith, especially if you're the kind of person like myself who generally trusts to logic and research.

It's great that some of you can say "I feel feminine because it represents something which has always been part of me" and it's quite likely you can be cool with that and not overthink it like I do. Sadly it's taken me longer to get with the program. Nevertheless there are days where I am calm and collected and might feel the same way for a bit when dressed up, except that nagging part of my male mind which says, "Is that so Crystal, well prove it to me!"

Thankfully though after chatting with my friend tonight who is the only close person in my life that knows the truth about me I finally figured out an answer to the roundabout question I kind of asked.

Essentially the way I see it now is that femininity is definable but it is entirely based on one's own perception. You could technically ask 100 different GG's what they think it is and get 100 different answers. Therefore what I actually think my femininity actually is in all fairness just as valid as anyone else's.

Now I wasn't born female and I don't actually want to transition to female, but that doesn't mean I don't or can't feel any sense of femininity. I do believe that my own understanding of it is influenced by many of the women I have known in my life and at some level I've subconsciously picked up on things I liked. But at the same time I've greatly adapted those things to fit with what my female identity wants and thinks.

I mean this makes sense to my mind because it's not like I could ever learnt to be female from the day I was born, that simply wasn't on the cards for me. So everything I know and understand has to be drawn on from another source. However what does comfort me greatly is the fact that part of me has obviously always wanted that because if I didn't I wouldn't have purposefully picked up on those things and remodelled them to fit my own individual perception of feminine identity.

Now I don't mind at all if this reads like a bunch of nonsense. Whether you agree or disagree it doesn't matter because we all think differently at the end of the day, but I do feel that I had to write this all down to help me collect my thoughts and finally figure it out.

I'm satisfied to say now that my femininity is certainly real because I perceive it as real. That in itself is enough for me.

[Noeleena]

Hi Joanne,

A ? If you stood in front of 3 and more women say for a week or two interacted with them worked with them had lunch worked in a kitchen or more and just did things on a day to day detail and let them see you the person in other words come under their scrutiny and let them tell you... and you are to just be your self no put ons no makebelive no acting just be who you are on a day to day living,,,,,

and after ask them what they think .

I had people do this to me and was over years of seeing me in action working and with many other people at a Renaissance camp = The SCA,,,,i was watched being checked out really hard out to see if I was infact a female = woman ,, it was not about wether I was or not they wonted to know if I was acting a part being dressed as a woman going back in time to 1400 to 1700 for myself would have been from my German background that's it as a loose canon , I had been told some of our men did infact dress in those times as women I cant say many did yet a few did as to reason.s I don't know.

Now had I they told me I really did stack up and would have fooled them with out any problem , to me that was a WOW.....because I had never thought of even doing that..

at the end of my being watched one women said to me after, you ...ARE... a woman....female there is nothing about you that says male in any way.....I was surprised to be told .I had no idear I was being watched, 3 years later I was summoned before our king and queen and before 250 people that I was infact a female and was given my rank with in our society world wide now that is not done for a male,. out side in the what we call the mundan world where we all live in = normal world people know I,m just a normal female now we do accept there are other who are dresser,s and trans and gay, it,s not a major issue and with in our group in New Zealand and Australia I,m accepted and many others are if we are born different, those I know would be about 1500 people who I have talked with rub shoulders with and I know every one


What I,m saying is be real and don't try and fool people because you would be found out and its better to be up front with people and be accepted for who you are than be rejected,

I could have easerly just said I,m a dresser, and would have been accepted, no different because I would have said so. just my rank would not have been one of being a female other wise no problem.

I quess I live in a different world in so many different aspects and don't have those issues that many dresser,s do and many trans people .

A lot comes down to ….how... I interact with others in my life attitude what I,m like around people , I don't allways get it right more like 98 % is really good,

I wont say I,m feminine in how I look I,m feminine in my makeup nature my demeanor how I move I don't mean like walking or body movement its ….. how do I explain,,,my body language personality gracefulness I quess theres more just I cant explain it be better for others to do that as they can see out side my immediate what I feel see, or express, I can be blindsided also all I know is others do know what I,m like as a person, so better for them to judge me . having said that they will say i stack up pretty good, so something to think about and comment on yes,,,,, maybe,

...noeleena...

[Anne Bonny]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/scie ... 36839.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Real research is finally looking into all of this. You like myself want solid answers I am rational and focused on science. Well I am not sure why the Netherlands, Sweden seem to be kind of the lone rangers I am interested in digging to find more. I really liked the study that did MRI...seems PET scans would be better but they actually watched and matched brain activity matching between women and trans women, and Men and trans men! One did autopsies (6) and found there was an area larger in men than in women and found trans women have a small area like women, and again trans men and men. They cannot yet say this is genetic unless found in fetuses, stating it is possible social activity may be responsible for the what enlargement or shrinking of this area inside the brain!? Hum... Funny but I felt this way became aware of it around age 9.

I believe it is perfectly reasonable to say these areas must vary and not just be large or small period, there must be those of a size that are in between too which would explain why we are as we are yet sway between male and female but cannot be consistently either way. I posted several studies...these are solid studies at real universities by real researchers. They even covered the idea that our genitalia develop at a different critical time than our brain so that our sex may be male yet our brain more female because of the hormone levels present as we developed over time. One theory.

I know I am not explaining this well. I direct you to read these studies. Thing is the major part of gender is found in our brain, while our genitalia are just physical organs.

I have also reasoned over a lifetime we have picked up on and in dressing etc have probably experienced some conditioning similar to women though they are exposed 24/7/365 for years while our experience has been more periodic...conditioning lite.

Thing is we cannot help feeling like women because it is hard wired in our brain otherwise why has this persisted throughout our lives from a very young age...there is nothing we can do about this... what good does it do for a girl to say I'm not a girl! I'm going to stop being a girl!! We can't do anything about who we are inside I believe we are in part female because it is hard wired in our brain. Trans Sexual's have brains that are fully feminine so with surgery and hormones they are able to finally feel fine. It may be true we will always sway back and forth but understanding this I am also am beginning to feel fine. There is nothing wrong with us! This is who we are and there have always been people who are like us because it is a natural outcome. What is unnatural are the simplistic conventions societies have derived based on a person's genitalia alone!

[Diana Michelle]

I think to me the one thing that has always puzzled me is this perception of femininity and how feminine one is and how it is perceived particularly by CDs. Sure there are those silly quizzes out there in cyberspace but the ones I have seen are generally pretty transparent in what answer leads you one way or the other. At least for me femininity is something that comes from within and is not defined by the stereotypes society uses.

Is the woman who likes sports car racing less feminine than one loves to sew? Is the woman who prefers to be on the golf course less feminine than one who prefers to stay home cooking dinner? Is the woman who would rather be on the garden tractor cutting the lawn less feminine than one who loves planting flowers and tending to her garden? Is the woman who would rather have a burger and a beer for lunch less feminine than the one who has a glass of white wine and a salad? Is the woman who prefers to debate politics with the guys less feminine than the one who would rather sit with the other women and talk about soap operas?

Masculine and feminine are adjectives same as better and worse. They denote degrees of something and have to be seen as such. Because it is more abstract concept how feminine one is cannot be quantified other than against stereotypes and labels and anyone who has read some of my posts know how I feel about that. If in your mind Crystal you have feminine characteristics then you do. How other people see it is immaterial. Your example of Barry and Bianca is based on societal stereotypes and labels. I will add here that from the girls I have seen over the years and I have seen 100's be they CD or TG they do have a tendency to change somewhat to conform to those stereotypes. I am not saying this is right or wrong, just how it is in my observations.

Rather than worry about things such as this why not just enjoy the individual you are? Obviously when in public there are certain things you should think about such as when sitting on a barstool wearing a skirt keep your knees together. I think all here are wise enough to what I am talking about with this.