Gaw is our site dead!?

[Anne Bonny]

Oh! I am saddened that an innocent question seems to have raised division which I do not believe to be there. I believe it is a matter of degrees... some of us on the lite side and increasing overlap occurs as we move further along the axis until some really have no other choice but to transition if they are to live and find happiness in their lives.

I do believe we are inextricably bound together by whatever it is inside of who we are that colors our identity and mentality feminine. That is the "Who I am sense" there really is nothing more to it than just that...it is not a fantasy, or some perverted choice we make it is something we cannot shake that is there and has been there our entire life. Growing up I was torn apart mentally by this inner struggle we are taught and conditioned and are forced to be one way while this inner sense tells us we are otherwise and draws us in another direction. It is a horrible thing that we are in many ways being pressured intensley to be who others want and insist that we have to be and that if they force us to be that way eventually we will settle down and find we are happy. Stupid people!!! How many have they been responsible for pushing into suicide? No one can change who you are inside and this is who we are as people!

I draw no distinction in my mind between those who are led to dress and find sexual pleasure from it...and as the degree increases as we find we are located somewhere along this axis all the way on to those who have to transition in order to find happiness so that they can go on to live their lives in peace. Realize it or not where ever we are inside our head we are all the same because there exists this feminine sense coloring our thinking. As a child I had absolutely no understanding about any of this only that I liked putting on women's clothes and pleasuring myself...as time went on my understanding grew and I came to realize my sense of who I am is female and there is nothing I can do to change that. My place along this axis is short of feeling an intense need to transition in order to save my life but who knows... I find differences and similarities between who I am and who men and women are. I know I love women and am attracted to them but I also cannot help being as they are and desiring similar things.

I do believe we are all involved in some way in the push to change how people think so that we are just seen to be people no different than anyone else. I do agree those who have transitioned, and who are living openly needing to pursue careers, live where they desire and have all the same basic human rights because we are human after all, are highly motivated to lead this fight for our rights because they are confronted everyday of their life by issues of bigotry and by those who would seek to deny our rights for whatever reason, so I see these women as my Heros.

I have never really been treated in any other way by our transitioned sisters than with understanding and consideration and acceptance.... We are together not apart we are connected to each other.

I do know with the help of many professionals and my current Psychiatrist I am beginning to see how my inner struggle has had a huge role in how I feel about who I am and feel about myself and how it has effected feelings to those all around me who either do not know or who would reject who I am if they knew. It is monumental! I have from a fairly recent point embarked on moving forward with the rest of my life as I evolve realizing I am female this is who I am and living openly as I find confidence and comfort in being more open to those around me. I know in being who I really am I will encounter the same mindset that has always existed and that is also sad but I will not find peace and happiness until I am able to live and to be who I am inside before everyone.

Ok, well, I have used this site more as a place to post because I am lonely after losing so many people who were in my life and I have found support and human contact here. We all need acceptance and human contact...I also have other places, I have real life friends who know, but many who I know I cannot tell but I need all the people around me that I can find. I am lost and disoriented having lost my wife but I am struggling to live and to find purpose again as I also seek to be open about who I am. I can say I have more peace inside and I am happier than I used to be because I am beginning to be who I am and I will be who I am the rest of my life.

[Sarah Beth]

I am one of those who has pretty much stopped coming here let alone posting anything in the forum. For a time I was here daily sometimes twice or more in a day and read nearly everything that was posted and sometimes I commented. I see in this thread a lot of what I will call discussion about CD or TG and I thought to myself that one of the reasons I stopped coming here was that what I had to say didn't seem relevant to anyone here.

I have a great deal of respect for those who have come out and moved on with lives and have been brave enough to transition because that what was is right for them. It got to where to me there was lot of more that sort of discussion here than there was about just simply the trials and tribulations of the CD, the ones who just like to dress and feel good doing that, the ones who don't want to change from that. In my particular case I know I was admonished several times to make that leap and come out with that when I don't feel at all inclined to do so or feel like I need to add that burden to the other burdens in my life.

There are not many times anymore when I am able to dress up, I have parents in their 90s who require almost daily attention and when I can I try to manage to do a little work now and then. So sometimes when I did and made me feel good I wanted to share that and it seemed that it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't relevant to the fact that someone was transitioning and having a hard time coping with that. Maybe it isn't a big deal to anyone else but then I don't live in a city where there is a big support system, I don't know anyone else in my area who crossdresses or is transgendered so I had no one else to talk to and no where else to go. So what I had to say was important to me but not that important to others so I just sort of melted away.

[Anthony Simon]

Maybe it isn't a big deal to anyone else but then I don't live in a city where there is a big support system, I don't know anyone else in my area who crossdresses or is transgendered so I had no one else to talk to and no where else to go. So what I had to say was important to me but not that important to others so I just sort of melted away.

I think that's really sad - because what this site has always really been about is being a support group for CDs. I've also always valued your posts.

[SilverLady(SO)]

I think that's really sad - because what this site has always really been about is being a support group for CDs.

I completely agree! It is also obvious that the majority, if not all, of the LGBTQ political topics have been started by those who are TG.

So, what would the members like me to do?

* Remove members who have admitted that they have had SRS?

* Remove members who are living life as a female 100% of the time (without SRS)?

* Any other suggestions?


As a reminder, we already have an area here for the TGs to post in, but that does not prevent them from posting anywhere else.


- SL

[Anthony Simon]

I don't think any of those ideas are going to work. Because they suggest the root of people not posting here is that TSs are somehow the "problem". The problem is people aren't posting. It's kind of (IMO) a seductive idea that you get rid of x, y and z and things will magically right themselves - but I think the reality is just going to be we lose some good-hearted posters and nothing much positive happens.

[SilverLady(SO)]

So very true, Anthony.

I was only making the suggestion because while it is true that this forum is supposed to be for "crossdressers, their spouses, family, and friends", we've always been open and accepting of our members who have decided to transition and created a place for them (The Journey Beyond), and that was to honor one of our original moderators, Beauty, more than 10+ years ago.

IF our members would prefer to return to our 'roots' and be solely for the CD as our name implies, that is an option. That option would not "magically guarantee" that our CD members would become more active here, not by any means. Times change, just as this forum has changed.

What has not changed is that for a lot of our older members (by age), this forum remains a life-line for them . . . and I will not change that unless there is no other option.


- SL

[Anthony Simon]

Speaking personally, I value TS voices on here because I recognise a certain overlap in where I'm coming from. So, when they speak, I feel spoken for, to a degree.

It's odd that people don't post. I have the idea that at least part of it is down to what's going on out there. I think, just generally, people are lacking in self-confidence - and that, when that's added to CD's self-doubt, you get a kind of implosive result and people don't post.

I'm not very good at fashion etc. posts - but those seem very much at the heart of what has made this site good in the past. I don't know if that's chicken or egg, but more of them would probably be a good sign.

SL - I agree, absolutely, with your comment about the site being "a life-line". I mean, CDs are such an isolated community and this breaks that up (to a degree).

[Anne Bonny]

Well...I believe I certainly fit ... well, maybe I am in between. I suppose...I feel that I have a feminine sense of self that colors my life and my thinking. At one time I would have considered myself to be a Crossdresser. I do not believe transitioning would be the right choice for myself and I certainly do go back and forth with my appearance. I am honestly closer to full time at home than I have ever been even walking or running below the radar and I believe if I could feel comfortable and not judged would be living more full time everywhere shopping, traveling, out to eat, going anywhere and everywhere in public.... because it is who I am. Does that make me a trans sexual? Or does that make me a full time crossdresser? I suppose my sense of who I am may put me more or closer to over the top and into the trans community...though the trans community would certainly not accept that.

I think having had to hide who I am all of my life and the fear of rejection ...well I am seeing a psychiatrist and have found this is a very significant issue along with all of the losses I have suffered.

Thing is...I relate to those who just cross dress and for most that is for some form of thrill or pleasure sexual or otherwise maybe they enjoy the challenge of looking like an attractive and beautiful woman. I thought for years that that is where I was.

I think it is the sniping that goes on, the lack of understanding on both sides by those who do not want to accept that there is no slow evolution toward transitioning by any who are like we are... Well we are not all transexuals, if someone is they do evolve toward that it is true but many are just crossdressers period end of sentence.

I am able to listen and to give advice. I do not feel I can really advise transexuals because I still do not consider myself to be a candidate and doubt that I will ever be.

What to do? I think support and being welcoming and putting ourselves in the middle if we see sniping to try to make peace. I am mystified why the incredible support I have found here over the years is not attractive? I have seen this as a support group. A life line...that has been for me too! I am 62! Maybe conditions are changing in our society and it is effecting our community? Maybe there are more support sites, or ? I don't know...but I am not the only one who has noticed the drop off and I wonder if it has been my fault...because I post far too much...I hope not... If I should stick to my diary area...I will and will only come out to look for those who want support or advice. I believe I show up so much because posting by others has indeed fallen off substantially.

I have seen other sites and a huge positive here is that we are not into obscene pictures or posts because we are a support group. Other sites require a subscription for full features or do not seem to allow the same open freedom to post about what may be bothering you ... I did try another site for a while but this one is much better which is why I returned.

[Rikki]

Anne,

I share many of your feelings discussed above. I too am not "in transition". I am comfortable with where and who I am. Both ends of the gender spectrum have appeals to me. There are times for both, but, yes, sometimes desires of one add frustration to the other.

My one real test in life is the fact that I'm still deep in a closet with my CD lifestyle. Only practicing it when totally alone. But "absence makes the heart grow fonder" so they say. And the time I have in frills seems even more rewarding, be it scary and nervous at times.

As far as CD-Haven, you are right. This site is what I want in an online gathering place. People who are looking for comradery not copulation. It has truly provided me with the answer which I sought for so many years, "I am the only one?" And through conversations here I came to discover that I'm not alone (although I am physically when dressed) in my feelings, passion for femme fashion and my mixed-gender-classification-label-whatever that I might be called.

Lately, life has been very busy with family and business obligations keeping me away from the Haven. I miss all the old friends and interaction. It is always fun to come here and have conversations, most times on topics way different than skirts and heels, while wearing said items. It makes being all femmed up seem all that much more natural and right.

My best regards to you, Anne, and everyone on the Haven. Miss you all and hope to see you more often soon.

Rikki

[Anne Bonny]

Nice to hear from you Rikki. Sorry you feel you need to be deep in the closet. I know that I have around me a network of female contacts and friends...they are both, and a few who know and accept who I am has made a world of difference. I have finally got my head on straight about all of this and so I am out more than ever before. Seeing a Psychiatrist who does psychoanalysis, what you think of when you think psychiatry, a lady I seek out women because I am more comfortable around them. Hiding has had a major impact in how I feel about myself and in my mild depression that has been on going for a long time. I have recently spent over $800 to bring my wardrobe up so that it is what it should be if I am going to be living more full time as a woman at least at home...I do not like feeling judged. What is stopping me from going anywhere and everywhere is that huge mountain of fear...we have to develop the strength and confidence in who we are so that we are not concerned with what other's may think and we must have the strength to stand up and defend ourselves...I may get there and I do hope to find a woman who will find me attractive as a person. see you later...Anne

[Wesley]

I think that's really sad - because what this site has always really been about is being a support group for CDs.

I completely agree! It is also obvious that the majority, if not all, of the LGBTQ political topics have been started by those who are TG.

So, what would the members like me to do?

* Remove members who have admitted that they have had SRS?

* Remove members who are living life as a female 100% of the time (without SRS)?

* Any other suggestions?

As a reminder, we already have an area here for the TGs to post in, but that does not prevent them from posting anywhere else.

- SL

I am going to offer my two cents here. I've no doubt that it will not meet with the approval of one particular member, but, as many have noted, the site is dying. Every time I have been here to see what is new, I find the site is static, and generally only one person posting about their daily struggles.

As you noted, this is supposed to be a support group for CD's. I humbly suggest it remain so. Take a look at the crossdressing sections on Quora, there are still a huge number of people who engage in Crossdressing without being Transgender or embracing Transgender ideology. Who supports them? As I pointed out in another thread (TRI-ESS ) there are MANY transgender websites and resources. There are few for the lowly crossdresser. As with the TRI-ESS group, such groups have been CO-OPTED by Transgender adherents.

No, I am not against Transgender folk, but it certainly seems they are against Crossdressers as they (in general) find it necessarily to co-opt everything crossdressing to advocate for transgender.

BUT who speaks for those who are, like me, a lowly crossdresser. I made peace with myself years ago, that I had no desire to cross that line and buy into the idea that hormonal treatment, castration, and plastic surgery will make me into the "happy woman" one would expect I should be. The reality for most who go that route end up profoundly depressed, and all too often suicidal. No one seems to want to talk about WHY that is though.

Maybe if there was a site that either advocated for accepting one's self as someone who desires to DRESS in feminine clothing as opposed to joining the ranks of the transgender, things would be different. I challenge all the transgender adherents to name another site where the masses DON'T sit back and cheer any time someone announces they believe themselves to be TRANSGENDER as opposed to crossdressing.

Lets talk about those of us who are happy to be able to resume being male at the end of the day in an unabashed manner. Lets stop kowtowing to transgender activism and offer some realistic assessments and ALTERNATIVES. No one else is.

Lets talk about the underlying pathologies that exist in "transgender" individuals that all too often go untreated, yet such individuals are allowed to "transition" as though it is harmless. The medical literature is replete with warning calls, yet the community seems all too eager to race head first into solutions that often cause more problem than they solve.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29665513" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"This study confirms that non-treated transgender individuals have an increased risk of a depressive disorder."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2717324400" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Highlights
-Non-treated transgender people have a nearly 4-fold increased risk of depression.
-Depression risk may be mediated by the use of cross-sex hormone treatment.

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2013-04448-001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Results: The rates of depressive symptoms (51.4% for transgender women; 48.3% for transgender men) and anxiety (40.4% for transgender women; 47.5% for transgender men) within the current study far surpass the rates of those for the general population. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15865950/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
RESULTS:
Twenty-nine percent of the patients had no current or lifetime Axis I disorder; 39% fulfilled the criteria for current and 71% for current and/or lifetime Axis I diagnosis. Forty-two percent of the patients were diagnosed with one or more personality disorders.
CONCLUSIONS:
Lifetime psychiatric comorbidity in GID patients is high, and this should be taken into account in the assessment and treatment planning of GID patients.

And ESPECIALLY THIS:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/artic ... ne.0016885" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Conclusions
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group."


While its swell that "Transgender no longer recognised as 'disorder' by WHO" according to this article,
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-48448804" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I beg to differ. Why? Someone explain how, if there is no pathology associated with the issue,

"RESULTS: Nearly 14% of adolescents reported a previous suicide attempt; disparities by gender identity in suicide attempts were found. Female to male adolescents reported the highest rate of attempted suicide (50.8%), followed by adolescents who identified as not exclusively male or female (41.8%), male to female adolescents (29.9%), questioning adolescents (27.9%), female adolescents (17.6%), and male adolescents (9.8%). Identifying as nonheterosexual exacerbated the risk for all adolescents except for those who did not exclusively identify as male or female (ie, nonbinary). For transgender adolescents, no other sociodemographic characteristic was associated with suicide attempts." Source: https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/ ... /e20174218" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

See also:
https://www.aappublications.org/news/20 ... _TrendMD_0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/ ... m=10_26_19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.aappublications.org/news/20 ... _TrendMD_0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lets be honest, the pathway for someone who does elect to self identify as Transgender, and ultimately transition with or without surgery is beset with depression, suicide, and all too often, unsympathetic peers.

While even though of us who are just crossdressers, can sympathise with the fantasy of waving a magic wand and becoming a beautiful woman and receiving the accolades appropriate therein. The reality is that for the vast majority of transgender folk, the transition and surgery do not yield the anticipated results and thus exacerbate the depression and social pathology associated. As a crossdresser, I realized long ago, I have no desire to change sex. I realize that such surgical interventions are often less than satisfactory and leave the individual a caricature of what they envisioned.

"The findings of the studies permit the conclusion that sex reassignment surgery beneficially affects emotional well-being, sexuality, and quality of life in general. In other categories (e.g., “freedom from pain”, “fitness”, and “energy”), some of the studies revealed worsening after the operation. All of the studies were judged to be at moderate to high risk of bias. The drop-out rates, insofar as they were given, ranged from 12% to 77% (median: 56%)."

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6546862/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FINAL THOUGHTS

So, at the very least, shouldn't we at the very least stop ADVOCATING for Transgender. There are plenty of TRANSGENDER resources out there, but VERY few for crossdressing. (I would note that several times in the past few years, when this issue came up, would try to locate CROSSDRESSING resources in my area. Despite several attempts to find such resources, without fail, every one I was referred to specifically disavowed crossdressing resources, yet offered Transgender resources. This is problematic.

I don't seek to silence anyone, but I suggest that there is a RIGHT time and place for every discussion. Discussions of transgender individuals who exclaim from the rooftops how wonderful their surgery and life have been since transitioning have no place here. CROSSDRESSING DOES.

I suppose I risk getting banned from this group by speaking blatantly against the orthodoxy but NO ONE ELSE is offering a countervailing voice.

[KimberlyS]

Wesley, I know you are replying to SL in your post. But since some topic comments are of the site direction and I am the new site admin, I am going to chime in. I am not planning on changing the site focus from being a crossdressing site. In fact I know that SL re-organized the site some a while back to have some areas that are more CDing and some that are more TGing focused. If you have suggestions to change some of the site organization I am open to listening to changes.

I do not believe that throwing anyone off the site that becomes more than a CD would solve any issues with this site or make it better. IMHO all CD's are TG according to the true definition of the word. And in my opinion all those here that interact on the site give the information, posts, and chats a different prospective some some here need to hear. If you believe in the gender spectrum theory, then you do not believe there is one set group of just crossdressers, just like there is not a set group of male and female people. But that is a topic for a different post.

As for people I interact with on the site, CD or transitioned, I find they do not push others to being more. And trust me I have been on sites where the girls were always pushing others to do more and head towards transition. I do not see that on this site and it is against the rules. If you see it let me know. What I do see is people supportive of where ever a person is at and encouraging self acceptance of where ever they feel they are at. In fact I have seen many times it was those that has transitioned that have told new CDers to slow down and/or seek professional help. The pink fog is a struggling place for everyone.

As for site activity. My experience in my years of people posting on this site and others is that people who are strictly CDers tend to be more shy, quiet and do not post as much as those that are more active cders or those who have moved on to some type of transition. On many of my posts here I have tried to get more CDer input and posting but it just does not happen. In fact sometimes I word my posts trying to draw in the CDers for comments. I know I can not force other CDers to reply to posts, so I am open as to how you think we can get them to respond more?

As for all of your references and information on TG's after transition, I think the information is great and what I did read of the links was good information. But I think it is off topic from the initial direction of this post. Instead what I would like is for people to suggest what they would think would create activity here. Instead of putting down the site, what can we change? What can you, myself and each of us do to create posts that people want to come to the site to read and reply to? How many posts have you answered in the last month? How many posts have you started in the last month? Last year? If you want more posts started by CDers, then CDers need to start them. You want more posts and participation by CDers on this site, then CDers need to reply to posts and participate.

I am working on doing site software upgrades and chat software replacement, but that is only the site software. Each of us here is responsible for the content. I did not take over this site because I wanted a site to run. I took over this site because I thought the information here was important and want the site to continue. But as with any group, the group is made up of more than one person. I challenge everyone here to take some ownership in this site. Do not just come to read and look but participate in the site. Answer posts, start new posts, show up for chat night, come up with other activities, suggest site changes.

kimberlys

[Ralitsa]

I guess the reason I don't post much is that I simply can't think of anything interesting to say.
Like Sarah Beth said, anything I might want to talk about doesn't seem very relevant to most.

But a big part of it also, is that I don't struggle anymore with the disconnect between the clothes I like to wear, and what is expected. And I have this site and its members largely to thank for that. So in my case the site really accomplished what it should. Mission Accomplished!!!

I keep coming here to see if maybe there is any other person struggling, that maybe I could offer some support and encouragement. And I'll continue to do that, I think I owe that to the group who helped me when I needed it.

But I don't have any brilliant suggestions about how to get more people to participate. It's just one of those things, when there are a lot of interesting posts then people are inspired to post a lot more interesting things; and when it's boring people go elsewhere. I wish I knew how to change that.

[KimberlyS]

I sure hope this site is not dead. This is a good site with great information. That is why I wanted to take it over.

I will agree that a lot of the recent posts are being made by TG's. But most specific TG topics are posted in the TG area. The posts being created and answered by TG's are general topics - acceptance of self or miscellaneous topics relatable to all people.

I agree that new CDing content here has been lacking. I too am perplexed why more CDers do not post. I see the traffic of people coming and reading posts, some who I know are CDers. But they are not posting. CDers who are reading this – are there specific reasons that you are not posting?

I am a true believer that a group is made up of people. It is the people that can make or break the group. This site would not be here if there were not people that wanted/needed to come to this site for information. Content on this site comes from new people looking for information who have recently joined and from long-standing members who are willing to provide some insight gained from their triumphs as well as their struggles.

Here is a two-part challenge for every member on this site. One, I challenge every member here to create at least one (or more, if you want to) new post on the forum each month for the next six months. Two, I also challenge everyone to reply to at least 6 different posts each month for the next six months. I am hoping if we all post positive and informative questions and topics about CDing and how it relates to our life, others will chime in with their experiences.

I am certainly open to ideas for making changes on the site. But, as my wife would certainly attest to, I cannot read minds. Please post (or send me a private message) on what you think would be a positive change and how we should go about this change.

Kimberlys

[Noeleena]

Evening ,
Even being in the middle of lock down schools and other large groups I,m a member of and in the 1000,s ,I can and do pretty much come in every night and have done for some years plus the other forums I,m a member of and that include,s 3 women only forum,s ,

What I have seen is and my women friends will say the same when your on a mostly a male forum it is not allways going to be for us any way talking writing about what dresser,s and trans people are interested in I know for myself my interests are very different and most here will not do as I have done for years, it comes down to having things and interests of what do we have in common,

plus of cause what my women friends and I talk about are very close to us and we don't share with other,s let alone put it in writing.

I do have some work related interest,s in as I am a machinist and I have two guy friends who I do talk to concerning that subject , and funny as I did bring it up on a dresser and trans forum well that sunk like a stone , you see very few of us will bring those subjects up as there ,s no interest, on forums like this one , being a machinist in both timber - lumber and Metal Lathe,s does not have that engaging appeal,
And dare I say and can look like a grease monkey some of us are not as I was told we have to be well dressed in feminine clothes hair done and looking like what guys look at in the glossy mag,s a sexy looking chic. oh and nails all done..... sorry this Lass is ,,,, not one of them, in fact I have spent the last two week,s working on the Metal Lathe striping it down and a complete re do and fit,.

Okay better stop now as I will carry on talking about what im doing. ...lol,s….

...noeleena...