mommy

[Absaroka]

Here's a comment and a question for everyone, but especially SO's

A recent post about shame by an SO got me thinking (thank you Tara)

Here's what my wife would probably consider the worst thing about my crossdressing. I'll sum her up briefly:

"You were a little boy and you wore your mom's lingerie and got excited. Now you want to wear my clothes. I absolutely REFUSE to let you turn me into your mother!!!!!!!!!!!! Grow up, I married a man, not a little boy. And don't try to excuse it by saying you no longer wear my clothes because you bought your own."

Well I probably just got a lot of folks mad. But I have to admit the truth of her thoughts, even if I prefer to say I'm in touch with my inner child the same as other men who enjoyed fishing as children now do so as grown men.

As I said I am wondering in particular if this strikes a chord with any of the SO's

Zari

[Della]

Zari, you are amazing. Once again, you have caught a speeding bullet, and then knocked it out of the park for a home-run. You took the slippery pigskin across the minefield for a touchdown. Just net! ( how 'bout dem mixed metaphors? I got more )

I am not worthy to comment. But I'll try anyway.

The summation of the perceived feelings of your wife really hits a nerve. Everyone has their 'schtick'. When a guy wears female clothes, he is plagiarizing the other sex's birthright. It doesn't matter if he bought them himself, they are the wife's clothes, and by extension, those of the guy's mother. When a guy gets all 'warm and tingly' wearing his mum's underthings, he may be reliving those blissful days of suckling at the breast of god (his mother).

Oh my gosh, I'm falling upward through the vortex of the birth canal.

So can you blame a wife if she wants the guy to let loose of that breast and get on with his life with her, to play the game according to the published rulebook? Even though he says he is respecting her gender, what you have is a difference of opinion, a parting of the ways. Defining who is right depends on how far back in time you want to go.

My only recourse would be "Who gave you (the wife) the exclusive rights to a bra? I have vestigial breasts, you know".

[Carolynn]

My, my. Such a Freudian topic. I see a few implications. Lets start with a question.

Zari, do the clothes you buy reflect your mother's at any particular decade in time, or do you buy things that are in style, or copy your wife's style?

If you feel right in period clothes rather than modern, then there may be something to your wife's charge.

If you copy your wife's taste in clothes, are you doing so because you think she has good taste, or is her charge you are transferring your mommy fixation onto her correct?

If you buy clothes so sexy that your wife nor you momma would wear them, you could be engaging in male sex fantasy, maybe?

I dunno. What style clothes do you buy for yourself?

[Absaroka]

Great comments

Della, I'd first make the comment that not only do men have vestigal breasts, sometimes we get a bit of discharge from them. Although that's usually a sign that something is wrong, such as thyroid disease.

I've known both men and women who had 3rd and 4th vestigal nipples, very faint, lower on the abdomen. Now that's a trip!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carolynn those are excellent questions that get to the heart of a lot of stuff.

First I have to distinguish fantasy from reality.

here's reality. When we were dating my wife, then girlfriend, called me one time and my roomate took the call. He handed me the phone saying "it's your mother" He'd mistaken the voice. I was utterly horrified. Which means that not only was I not wanting my future wife to be like my mom, somewhere there was a fear that she was. I wouldn't have reacted that way had he mistaken her for my sister.

When I first began to cross dress, there was a tendency to feel an attraction for the period clothes. Also for sexy stuff. So both ideas apply. However, decades ago my mom's clothing lost all attraction for me. This had, I think, to do with a very conflicted relationship with her. She was an active alcoholic who took a very long time to die. Enough said.

Today I have something of my own style, or a couple of them. Sometimes there is something about what I'll call power clothes. A vaguely corporate look, or a black party dress. Very much still part of a sexual fantasy even though I don't like "slutwear"

Often I like what you could call comfortably clingy. I've often thought this relates in some way to the idea that my clothes are giving me a hug. Like babys like to be wrapped tightly because it is comfortingly reminiscent of the womb. A lot of CDs seem to feel this way.

But then there is a style of my own. Simple shirts, in summer sleeveless tees that I can get away with as wearing as a man but are more form fitting as they are womens. I wear them openly in the winter as a first layer and they are warm and comfortable. Or camisoles. Along with a simple long skirt. Sort of like the 60's hippie look but with out the psychedelia. Sandals or barefoot. The only non casual thing about them is that if it's not too hot I still like stockings and a garter belt, which doesn't go with the ensemble at all. I can sum it up best by saying that my favorite skirt is the one I wore camping last fall. The sort of skirt you can wipe your dirty hands on.

To some extent my style is similar to my wifes, and my more formal style is a bit similar to hers also. There may be some imitation going on, I tend to imitate people I respect or love. But I think it's more that we both have influenced each other, plus share some similarities to begin with. I wasn't going to marry a woman who couldn't sleep on the ground for a week without taking a shower.

I'd say at this point the childish thing is that I've become my own imaginary friend.

Thanks for your comments, both of you

Zari

[DonnaT]

A different tact regarding "grow up": As a boy I liked hunting and fishing, I like them now (although I do it less often, I still like it). Should I give up the hunting and fishing now that I am a man? Are the likes of a boy all meant to only be for boys?

Change hunting and fishing to "camping". As adults should we no longer like to camp out?

Of course not!

So why is CDing any different?

Because it 'might' be a mommy fixation? 'Might' is a mighty iffy word, meaning maybe it is, or maybe it ain't. I choose maybe it ain't, behind door 2 please.

[Absaroka]

Donna I agree with you also.

I have memories of women complaining how often their husbands go fishing. Even if the bring the kids with them and keep them out of their wives hair.

And I've never thought being grown up is a good reason to stop doing things we still love from our childhood.

Here's a wonderful example. There is apparently a strong corellation between CDing and a couple of hobbies, one of them being model railroading. And how many men have been accused by their girlfriends and wives of "playing with toy trains" as if they had a childish hobby instead of playing golf or something?


Zari

[DanteCarrie (FTM)]

LOL oh how childish so you wear clothes that people invented so have no real gender we made them for genders so plagurising? what bollocks. is women wearing trousers is plagerising men?
ha women are such a bloody double standard they want respect, equality, to wear men's clothes but when a man tries to wear women's clothes its suddenly a big problem. ridiculous.
Would a man dressing in my clothes be turning me into his mum? wow isn't it a bit sad to be wearing the same stuff as his mum neither his mum or mine are gothic. No i would never feel it made me his mum. That sounds like silly paranoia.

[Gillian]

Take a hard look at some of the national custumes of the countries of the world. Some of the "guy" costumes look femme to me by todays standards. In the North American, and Northern European culture mens clothing has developed over the last 300 years into what me have today. Look at the way the "Dandys" dressed in the 1780's through 1830's. The wealthy loved their ruffles. To look gentile, meant that you didn't have to work. The amount of money we have can strongly affect the way we dress. I am an underdresser by nature, if I could afford to wear silk, I would be in it 24/7. PS, not as durable as nylon. Take a look at a men's silk suit, and the cost of a good one. Fashions and dress codes change, we are living in the wrong age and socio-economic class, thats all. Take a look at the old American song. Yanky Doodle went to town riding on a pony, he stuck a feather in his cap and called it macaroni. A "Macaroni" was a young wealthy Englishman who lived the life of a "Dandy". They were making fun of dress codes then and they will now. People have always been afraid of what they do not understand. Where do you think prejudice comes from. Think about that one next time you see one of your "favorite" minorities in your neighborhood.

[Absaroka]

So that's what Toppy meant when he called Tod Moran "Joe Macaroni", if anyone gets the reference to Howard Pease.

Dante I loved your comments. I do have to reiterate however that initially I WAS dressing like my mom, they were her clothes.....


If we are lucky we probably marry someone who reminds us of the best qualitys of the person of the opposite gender who we first admired most. If we are unlucky we find someone who embodies their worst qualities. Something I remind myself of when I get annoyed with my daughters.

Zari

[Elizabeth]

Hi girls,

It seems that almost every lay person reads a little Freud and suddenly they know the root of all of our problems. Even though most of Freud's ideas have pretty much been dismissed, for some reason people still like to boil everything down to childhood sexuality. Personally, I don't buy any of it. Boys don't wear their mothers clothes because they are in love with her and want to be her. They do it because she is female and has female clothes.

In my case, it was my sisters clothes. Listen, I know everyone wants easy answers to this. Especially answers that allow our SO's to dismiss the desire to dress as nothing more than a sexual perversion.

Absoroka,

I presume when your wife says "I don't want to be your mother", in regards to you wearing her clothes, the implication is that you have some fantasy for your mother. Oedipus at it's finest. It seems she is implying that you are trying to fantasize an affair with your mother, by using her as a substitute mother.

Where does this come from? It comes from misinformation and the dangers of when people know "a little" about psychology, without understanding all the things a psychologist needs to know. I hate it when people use phrases like "who you trying to convince, me or you?" and "thou protesth too much", and so on. It's an over simplification of a theory that has basically not panned out to be accurate.

Now, I am not saying there are not sexual reasons that both genders dress in the others clothing as a sexual turn on. This clearly does happen. But it's a leap to say that one wants their spouse as a substitute mother if one get's caught wearing their clothes, and even if one buys their own, still by extension it somehow makes the spouse the mother?

Nah, this is just a manipulation. More degrading and insulting the crossdresser to make them feel bad about themselves, so they are easier to control. I remember the good ol days of losing any argument about anything by just having it brought up that I was a perverted crossdresser.

If a woman can't handle seeing her SO in women's clothes because it crushes her image of him as a man? I can understand that. Just as it does/did for men as women took over every piece of distinctive clothing that men wear. Even girls underwear is now made to look like the traditional men's cotton brief with the overlapping stitch design that men use to relieve themselves without pulling their underwear down.

It's funny that women see no hypocrisy in wearing anything they want from their men's closest, but get all butt hurt when a man wears a woman's clothes.

And lastly, who is this organization that decides exactly what clothes are for men and what clothes are for women? Is it really in the hands of Tommy Hilfiger?

Zari,

Tell your wife: "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Gillian]

Good point, if a GG likes to wear boy shorts, why can't I wear hi-cut panties? GG's can wear dresses, skirts, slacks, and the list goes on, why can't I wear a skirt too? Sorry, I have no desire to pass as a woman, I just want to wear what I want without discrimination. I guess Calvin Klein has not clued in yet.

I did not want to be my mother, I grew up in a female dominant household. My Dad was almost never around. Still to this day I tend to feel more comfortable around the women folk. I say Freud was an idiot, and so are alot of them that want to pigeon hole everyone into there thought patterns.

[Absaroka]

Elizabeth I can only speak for myself.

When I was a kid I was sexually attracted to my mother. You know stuff like getting an erection when she kissed me good night and stuff. At the time I had no idea what any of this meant. I think this is normal for 3 and 4 year old boys. No big deal. Wearing her clothes was an expression of both that sexual desire, and also of just a feeling of closeness to her. And of course they were available.

As for my wife saying she refuses to let me turn her into my mother, that is mostly about other stuff. Like feeling as if she winds up picking up after me. Or more importantly, me setting her up as an authority figure. We all know the line by heart. "I'd like to do it but my wife said no" And then we get irritated. That is mostly what she was talking about, but then the clothing issue struck an unpleasant nerve for her.

As for my feeling of horror when my roomate mistook her for my mother, that probably had to do with some of that childhood sexual stuff, which for me is an accurate description of some of the feelings I had. It had more to do with what at the time was a very unpleasant relationship with my mother that I was eager not to repeat with anyone else.

As I said, this was true for me. It may or may not have relevance to anyone else.

Zari