hi - *LOCKED*

[Stephanie W]

Hi Jenny

I wasn't around here when you first shared your story with everyone but reading through your posts, I certainly empathize with your situation. Thanks for letting us know how you're doing and glad you're still hanging in there.

I admire you for staying with your Dad as it will give you a chance to talk some more with him. Your parents separation must have been hard but it was probably inevitable. I'm happy to hear you have begun to seek some outside help and hope you continue to learn as much as you can. The realization that he will always be your father no matter what, is an important step forward for you. That's what you need to build on.

It sounds like you are still harbouring a lot of guilt and it's not healthy to keep that all inside. I hope by your sharing it with us will help a little bit. You still need time to adjust to this change in your life but hopefully you will in time. As long as your Dad remains sensitive to your feelings and needs, it should give you two something to build on. He needs to help you understand that none of this is your fault. Even if he's told you that already, he still needs to get that message home. That can only be done if both of you are open to each other and willing to make some emotional concessions if need be. I wish you all the luck in the world.

Best wishes too, to your Grandma for a speedy recovery.

Stephanie

[DonnaT]

Hi Jenny,

You've come a long way and done a lot of growing up in a few months time. You've still got some more to go, so don't let your BF push you into anything you aren't 100% ready for.

Hope your Gran gets to feeling better.

Try and remember that you have nothing to feel guilty for. What happened was inevitible. Many a CD gets caught at some point, if not by you, then your mother may have caught him. Heard of a young lady (13) in the UK who recently found out about her dad by his leaving a cyber trail on the home computer, finding he was a member of a UK forum, joined that forum and looked at her dad's pictures posted there. Good thing the rules of the forum only allow decent pictures, not that he would have posted any other kind. Sadly, when she revealed her age she was denied access to the forum and wasn't able to get the help you got.

Anyway, don't feel guilty, but if you must, don't let it run your life. Be your own person.

[Beauty]

Hey Jenny,

You know I'm proud of you. I think you're so wonderful and like everyone else has said better than I can, you've grown so much, in such a short time.

I'm really glad you found the Gender Centre. This board and boards like it are cool and everything, but there's nothing like having a real person or real people to talk to. Good for you! That took lots of courage!

I'm sorry your grandmother isn't doing well. I hope she feels well soon.

Thanks for the update and God Bless you and your family.


p.s. Good luck with your bloke too!

[CJ]

Hi all,

Jennifer,

There's nothing I can add, really, to the good wishes and kudos of my friends here. Based on the way you've handled this curve ball life has thrown your way, I have complete faith that the gentle, sensitive, passionate, strong-souled young woman you are will blaze her own trails and follow her own bliss in life with a kind regard for the people and the life around her. I have faith in you.

Best wishes to your grandmother and good luck with your new beau (remember to have fun but play safe).

Love,
CJ

[JenniferMu.(GG)]

My Gran is a chronic asthmatic so if anyone has any experience with it they'll know how she suffers. The last bad attack she had, when they got her to hospital she was packed in ice in a bath and she wasn't expected to survive but she's one tough lady, I don't know how I'd cope if she wasn't here. She's back on her feet now and going ok for the time being.

Most people, even the counsellors at the Gender Centre keep saying I'm full of guilt over my father but I'm not that sure if it's guilt which angers me, I spose I feel something because I think I should be able to accept him no matter what, because I do love him to death, but then if anyone could do that then it should have been our mother. I'm not too sure about this adult thing, adults seem to say one thing and do another a lot of the time.

I do want to say that I'm really really trying and it's really a lot better than it was even a few months ago. I don't freak out anymore like I once did and my father and I, now that we're on our own, do sit and have long chats and they're more serious and in depth chats than we've ever had before. That thingy of where we used to always be trying to better the other isn't there anymore and I can see my Dad in a different light now, there's a lot more to him than I ever stopped to think about before. he goes a lot deeper than I ever thought.

What is really weird is that it wasn't that long ago that Mum seemed to be coming around and getting ok with Dad, she was saying that no matter what she had to keep her marriage together, but ever since Fathers Day she went the other way and that's the thing which has been churning me up, and if I feel guilty over anything it's over that. What happened was that every year Fathers Day falls on the first day in September here and for as long as my memory goes back, Mum always made a nice dinner and the four of us spent it together and it was always fun at the end to watch Dad open his presents and put on his usual act of making out he didn't know what they were, but every year Mum bought him socks n jocks, it was always the same.

Well this year my sis and I convinced Mum that we'd like to make the Fathers Day dinner and get his presents, so Mum n Dad went out for the afternoon and we cooked chickens and veges and a pavlova and that night it was like old times during dinner, it was so lovely.

When we got to the time where it came for dad to open his presents was when I got quite scared of what may happen because my sis and I had been shopping and we bought him this years presents. he picked up the parcel and went through his usual routine of feeling it, shaking it and saying he wondered what it could be this year and I can tell you my heart was in my mouth when he started to take the paper off. When he opened it a pair of panty hose and a pair of womens knickers fell onto the table and right then I heard Mum suck her breath in and I wanted to look at her to see how she looked, but I wasn't taking my eyes of my fathers face, I think I'd stopped breathing then. When he looked up at me I was shaking so much I think my heart was stopped and when he said something like....'Whats this mean Jennifer, what are you trying to tell me....well I just couldn't make my brain work, I just said something like...I don't know Dad, we're just trying to make things work.....

That night we had the longest talk about it all we'd ever had since it came up, but I can remember Mum hardly said anything and now I think about it that's about the time she started to withdraw into herself more and became moody and really hard to live with. It was sort of like she wasn't happy about sis and I trying to come better with it all but I just don't know anything anymore. Once i thought I knew my family very well but each day seems to prove I didn't.

And by the way, housework sucks and I know what Gran meant when she said a few years ago that one day after I get married and have my own family there's going to be a lot of things I'm going to have to do and do them well even if I don't like doing them, but since Mums gone well there's only me left to do the shxxty stuff round the house. I'd have to be the worlds worst with an iron, but at least I'm a good cook.

And as far as my b/f goes, well, I'm not so sure about guys. One day you think you know them, next day that all goes out the window. I guess some peoples' idea of love is vastly different to others, but I'm starting to think is there any such thing as real lasting love or does love only exist between two people if sex exists, can there be love just on it's own? or don't guys work that way? I just don't know and I don't want to get burnt finding out. Although he's known my Dad most of his life I find there's a wedge between us in a way, because I keep wondering how he'd act if he knew about my dad, not that I'm going to say anything anyway because Dad says as far as he thinks right now he'll keep his secret between 4 walls if we do the same. And I'm not sure at all about this marriage thing after seeing all the pain Mum and Dad are going through, why would anyone want to get married and risk that stuff happening after such a long time together, it just stinks.

Anyway, thanks for listening and I really appreciate everybodys' time and efforts they give, and the benefit of all your experience. Anyway I'd better go get ready for work, bye for now.

Jenny

[Beauty]

Hi Jenny,

As always it's AWESOME to see you here!! You're doing wonderful and I think you're totally handling life as it starts to fill life. Boyfriends, your mom, your grandmother, you're doing great.

We've talked about the father's day thing, so maybe others can tell you their feelings about that.

The bottom line Jenny is that I'm just proud of you and I want you to know that.

Talk to you later!!!

[DonnaT]

Hi Jenny,

Good to hear your Gran got better.

Regarding Father's Day, I have been very touched when my wife buys me fem items to show she wants me to be happy, more so than any any other present. The presents themselves are just things, but the showing of love behind them is what I felt to be most important. I hope your dad felt the same way.

As for your mother's reaction, have you discussed it with her?

It's really hard to gage something like that. I could discuss a few possibilities that may have been her reaction, but I don't want to mention something that may not be an actuality and yet may still cause you to feel more guilt.

That is clearly something you need to talk to her about. If you do, and want to discuss it here, then we'll try and help you sort through it.

Ah, housekeeping. There is no law that says the woman has to do it all. My wife and I share. I can get into doing more of her share when I'm dressed enfemme however. Give your dad a frilly apron and suggest he do the ironing.

As for your BF, I reckon women have similar thought about the members of the opposite sex that men do. Confusion. Just remember what I said before, don't let him, or anyone else, push you into something you are not ready for. Especially if they use 'love' as blackmail (If you loved me you would . . .)!

[Pauline]

Hi Jennifer

All below is in responses to your posts from the beginning... sorry it’s taken me so long to catch up and I know that things will have changed before I have finished typing this out..

The Lie
To lie to someone is to state an untruth... your father never actually lied to you or anyone else... you just was not informed/told to what he did... and once he was found out... did he deny what he did or whom he is.

Yes he kept the information from you... was not a lie so he was not lying, you all feel/felt betrayed because of not been “let in” to something so personal which is not just personal to him but to everyone whom it involves. It’s never an easy subject to tell anyone no matter how close they are and as time goes on it gets harder and harder as there is no right time or situation to bring it up because of the fear of rejection, anger, hated, loneliness. I am not trying to justify anything but just giving the facts and knowledge from life’s experiences.

“Who wears the trousers?”
Do you ever wear trousers (English terminology for pants) if yes... then you are also a crossdresser. Look into the history books and you will discover that the trousers were made for men and men only originally... The same with a tie, shirt, boxer shorts, socks and so-on.
How many women have said they have worn the husband/boyfriends boxer because they were more comfortable?

“If you’re going to do a job you might as well do it properly”
When a crossdresser starts dressing en femme it does usually start from an early age and with the closest items to the body and over time goes outwardly to dressing fully. Yes women’s breasts are part of feminity but not all of us were breast fed. There are/is no 1 standard when it comes to crossdressers like anything or anyone else.

Communication
That’s the key. Without it there is no openness, no trusting, no hope of understanding, which not one of us whom cross-dress have got to grips with, it’s a compulsion, a need no matter how much we try and deny it... There is never any harm intended but is and has been unavoidable not just for or to the Cdr (crossdresser) but also to family’s, friends, neighbors and co-workers.

Individualism
We are all individuals... we may have some likes and dislikes similarly to one another but no-one is exactly the same.

Sexuality
At first it is sexually effecting but as time goes on and the dressing becomes more frequent that feeling does subside to either none or nearly gone till the dressing becoming a feeling of second nature. It has taken me many years to accept whom I am battling with conflicting emotions and thoughts, and the times I have contemplated taking my own life on quite a few occasions before I found out I was not alone.

With each relationship there has to be a “hearing” of what each person wants and needs to express to each other, emotions, compromise, boundaries... state you need time to get use to the idea and at this moment in time you just can’t or do not want to see him dressed as a woman.. What ever happens he will always be “Dad” and will always love you and you will always love him... you will need time and perhaps in the future you may see him dressed but it has to be when you are ready... or as it has been… only causes more rifts and heartache.

You have always seen your dad in one light and now another light has shone which has shattered who he is in your eyes, yes to him he is who is has always been but has kept that part of him away from that light, but always with the best intentions.

Life is change... everyday one event changes every other option, to go left or right a t-junction etc. Life is also about risk

Acceptance
The acceptance of someone else is a personal choice with the knowledge gained not just on the person/individual in question but on the situation surrounding them, past to present and hopefully passed on to the next generations to a better understanding of human individualism.

Knowledge
The more you know the more you hopefully understand but that is not always the case... typical that.

Control
That is the illusion, example... you are driving along the motorway/highway... can you control when 1 or more tires are going to burst??

“Who am I?”
Me for example... I am a happily married man with children/teens. I’m not perverted, gay or bi, I have the highest respect for women.
I dress because of how I am feeling in male or female attire and the need of the clothes help me to express how I feel, the feminine clothing also helps to bring out my feminine side of my persona. I am more comfortable dressing en femme, even if I did end up dressing en femme 24/7 at home.. I am still my wife’s husband underneath and my children’s father. I only dress en femme at home and with boundaries (time’s) which has been agreed upon, I do not dress to get the attention of other males, I have no intent on becoming a woman, (all the operations in the world would never change my gender, not that I would want any) or going out dressed en femme though I do have feelings from time to time about wanting to. I do not seek a “cure” for something that I am and who would want to? I do not smoke, take drugs (unless prescribed) or drink alcohol.
I told my partner early on in the relationship because I felt/feel there should be no secrets between us (personal risky choice) and as with many gave the option to opt-out of the relationship before it got to the stage of marriage.
My better half and children/teens are ok with my dressing or life would have taken a different course. Though with my and others (S.O's) and with many if not all of our transgendered society we will never fully understand why we do what we do, we all do the best we can with the cards that are dealt. I have always been mature for my age and perhaps you are more mature than you think you are. The time we spend together is precious because we never know when our time is up.

I hope with time that things with your family have that closeness that you once shared before all of this erupted, I’m not saying things will ever be the same because that will never happen. You can waffle on to your hearts content, you will never bore or offend us because of your feelings, thoughts and or comments and our sisterhood has and will always be there for you and each other through the good and bad times.

Pauline

[Stephanie W]

Jennifer

I'm glad to hear some positive progress is being made. Only baby steps, but still important for both of you.

Regarding your recent post, I was touched by your wonderful gesture to your Dad on Father's Day. I know how I would have felt if that had been me receiving your thoughtful gifts. The downer though, was your Mom's (Mum's) reaction, which as you mentioned, appeared to be the start of it all. In my humble opinion, I think she felt 'hijacked' by what you did for your Dad in those choice of gifts. As you told us, it was her who would usually buy the gifts as well as cooking his special meal, so her initial thoughts about you and your sis doing the honours must have been a welcome gesture. Unfortunately, she wasn't prepared for the nature of those gifts. Maybe she would have been better about it if you had discussed it with her first?

If I'm making too many assumptions here, I apologise, but I'm just thinking out loud in the hope perhaps that something may ring true and/or help you make some sense of it all. Prior to that fateful day, she likely must have expected you would be as horrified as she was when your Dad's crossdressing came to light, to the point of not wanting to 'encourage' his (perceived) 'unhealthy' behaviour. Of course, when she saw what you and your sister had bought him, that must have felt like a sledgehammer to her. The sudden feeling of alienation she must have felt at that moment probably hurt like hell.

That prospect of suddenly feeling like the odd one out obviously took its toll on her, and try as she might to accept in the beginning, your apparent support for you Dad perhaps made her realize that now, he had less of an incentive to try and give this all up for the cause of 'saving the family' so to speak. At least if she could have counted on your support for her views, HE would have been the alienated one....not her. With your support, she may have had the misguided belief that he would have had no choice but to give it up for the sake of family unity.

Jen, one thing of concern to me is why your Mom wasn't eager to sit down on day one with you guys and talk with you about your feelings as well as her own. That way, she would have had a better feel for where things might have gone and what adjustments would need to be made so you could all have worked through this together as a family. It's times like these that bring out the strengths in a close family. My hunch is that there were likely other probems between her and your Dad and perhaps this all made for a convenient way out. Seldom is crossdressing the sole reason for a marriage breakdown but those are just my thoughts.

Anyway, hope some of what I've said makes a little bit of sense. If you think I'm way off base here, hey, I won't be offended at all. My main concern is you and it's my hope that you and your Dad can continue your conversations and build on the progress you have made so far. Seeing him in that new light is great news! Continue to seek out advice when you need it and don't be afraid to make your feelings known. You've done a great job here so far so keep it up.

As for your b/f, I'll add my 2c (or 2p) like others have said, in not letting him push you into anything you're not ready for. Take your time and only do what 'feels' right for you. You have enough things to keep you busy, with your Mom and Dad, although that shouldn't take away from the other important things in your life. Stay strong and good luck.

Glad your Gran is feeling better too. Take care.

Stephanie

[JenniferMu.(GG)]

Stephanie, things sort of ebbed and flowed with all this. On that Saturday afternoon when sis and I came home and found Dad dressed in Mums clothes, my first reaction after the shock abated somewhat, was that we never speak of it, but sis was only 14 and I guess she just couldn't hold it in and she told Mum.

Well when the balloon went up, it was me who was the worst and freaked out the most, and we sure did have a lot of talk about it all in the months after, but those talks always ended up either in screaming matches if Dadw as there (which we'd never had as a family ever up till then) or it became a tear fest between Mum and I. Mum was the one who always told me that she'd do what she had to to keep her marriage together, even though she always said she'd never be able to accept her husband as a woman. But the last 6 months she just went off the rails and I guess she was eating away in side more than any of us ever knew, but she's like that, she suffers in silence with a lot of things, although we've always been great pals and I always thought we were able to talk about anything together, but after a while with this she just changed and that rips me up inside because I've not only lost my father as I grew up to know him, it's changed my mother and she's also now someone different.

I've thought over what you've said and the other day I put to her some of the things you said and from the bits she told me back I got the notion that it wasn't so much her feeling as the odd one out, she felt that Dad had changed me in some way and she also felt that because I'd been such a strong opponent of it since we first learnt, she felt that I was doing something which I didn't really want to do, but was doing it out of loyalty to my father and it'd probably come back to bite me. I guess she's just been so muddled up and strung out she hasn't been thinking her usual clear self and even though she's been under counselling since she tried to hurt herself, it doesn't seem to have done her much good. We did discuss with her that we wanted to make Fathers Day and she gave us our blessing and even said it was about time we took over some of that stuff so she could sit back and relax and see if she'd taught us anything. But we decided not to tell her about the presents we were going to buy for him, because we thought she'd try and talk us out of it because nobody could judge what his reactions would be, and my heart sure stopped while he was opening the package and I wondered if I'd done the wrong thing again, but I think it turned out ok. I mean, I can't live without my Dad and neither can my sis and we can't live without our Mum and even if they do divorce we still want to be on the best of terms with them both, even if it's breaking my heart at the thought of not coming home to both of them together, but life sucks sometimes and I guess I'll just have to get used to being a 'suckee'.

I've told Dad that I'll stay with him until I feel it's ok for him to be on his own, I guess that just has to happen when the time's right, but I still have told him that even though it's ok with me now for him to dress up, I still don't like seeing my Dad like that and who knows if I ever will be completely cool with it. I've told him that one day I have to move on because I still have burning ambitions for being in the corporate world, I want to test my talents and I don't want to be a housewife and mother yet, if ever now.

And as far as him still being the same person, well to me he isn't and never will be, he's changed to what the Dad I grew up with was as far as how I knew him, even if he's always had this female thing inside him, well I never knew about it and it freaked me out. It's now more complicated than ever and it's changed all our lives and I wouldn't say for the better either, and it's split our family, so how can it be a good thing, it's just a crappy thing because we'll never ever be the same again, and even though I love my mother and father equally, I have to learn all over again where their place is in my heart, because he's burnt my heart and put a scar on it just as Mum has done the same thing by walking out. There's a lot of this stuff which I'll never be able to tell them because I have to put on a front for their sake and I don't think at 15 sis is ready for it either and my g/f has her own stuff to deal with, with her father, so sometimes I feel like opening up to my b/f but then I get scared of what may happen then. I'm not sure if there's any future for us, so I dont' want to say anything which can be used against me if we split, as most of my g/f's romances end in nastiness afterwards, so I hope you don't mind me pouring some of this stuff out here, it's like a safety valve.
There was some more things I wanted to discuss but they've gone right out of my silly looking head for now as I get a bit worked up over some things and I have to get ready for work.

Thanks.......Jenny.

[Stephanie W]

Jenny

I think I speak for most of the folks here when I say we're glad you found us and are able to talk about your feelings. Even if things seem hopeless sometimes, just being able to share with someone can make a world of difference. I hope it does, even just a teensy little bit.

Reading through your post, there was one thing that struck me when you said;

as far as him still being the same person, well to me he isn't and never will be, he's changed to what the Dad I grew up with was as far as how I knew him, even if he's always had this female thing inside him, ..........it's changed all our lives and I wouldn't say for the better either, and it's split our family, so how can it be a good thing, it's just a crappy thing because we'll never ever be the same again....... he's burnt my heart and put a scar on it just as Mum has done the same thing by walking out.

There is obviously a lot of hurt still there toward BOTH your parents. This is just a theory, but I'm wondering if this whole situation has more to do with your feeling of being robbed of your happy childhood memories which up until then had been just fine. The shattering of that 'safe' haven you once knew where you didn't have a care in the world other, than for example, whether you could stay up late to watch your favourite TV show. Let's say that were true, then say if your parents decided to divorce for reasons other than your dad's CDing, would it not be reasonable to think your reaction would have been exactly the same? What I'm saying is that, regardless of what brought you (your family) to the present situation, it's the loss of innocence that you are most upset about. That safe and secure upbringing you enjoyed before all of this was unceremonially taken away from you. The anger you have towards your Dad for what he did and the anger you have for your Mum for what SHE did......all leading to the impending breakup. The loss of your family unit! Jenny, that would be enough to scar anyone in your situation so you have nothing to feel responsible for.

You also said you still loved both your parents, although you now had to evaluate where in your heart they fit. In my opinion, I don't think you meant that. You KNOW they occupy the most special place in your heart and always will. I think the hardest part for you is reconciling with the changes that have been forced on you with a need to chart a new course in your life, one that you weren't yet prepared for.

The good thing Jen is that you haven't lost focus on your long term goals for that prospective career so those necessary changes will become secondary. You need to keep that focus through these difficult times and I know you will. Once you can let go of that childhood and accept that life is a process of constant change which we don't always have control over, you may find those pent up feelings/anger towards your parents may alleviate in time and then you can begin the healing process. For you and for them.

Stephanie

[DonnaT]

I've thought over what you've said and the other day I put to her some of the things you said and from the bits she told me back I got the notion that it wasn't so much her feeling as the odd one out, she felt that Dad had changed me in some way and she also felt that because I'd been such a strong opponent of it since we first learnt, she felt that I was doing something which I didn't really want to do, but was doing it out of loyalty to my father and it'd probably come back to bite me.

Jen, you might want to make sure that your mother knows that you did what you did out of love, not loyalty. Tell her you love her and your father equally. That, hopefully, love overcomes all the trial and tribulations a family endures.

[JenniferMu.(GG)]

I want to thank all the men and women here who took the time this year to give me help through the benefit of their experiences on something which I'd really never thought about much until all this stuff with my father raised its' head, but boy oh boy have I ever had to think about it these last couple of years.

I can't really tell you that anything is any better as our family is now permanently split up which p's me off something awful and I think my father is going through some sort of remorse or deep guilt thing over being the cause of the split and sometimes I just want to run away from it all but then I think he can't be left completely on his own while he's in this state anyway. It just rocks my boat to see how two people who once loved each other so dearly can turn on each other so quick and hurt each other so much, it makes me wonder sometimes if some people ever become adults or what an adult really is or should be, I just don't know anything anymore.

Anyway, I just want to wish everyone a happy new year and hope that next year brings everyone all the good things they wish for and once again thanks for all the help, you folk will never know how much you did for me in dark hours when all seemed lost at times.

Jenny

[Claire Dee]

Jennifer,

This is a really difficult situation for everybody, and everybody and every situation is different. This topic has gotten a lot of discussion; so I am hesitent to try to add to what's been said, but maybe responding helps each of us understand ourselves a little more. You are to be congratulated for trying to find understanding by coming to the forum.
As has been pointed out, we all have a little of both sexes in us. Most MTF crossdressers,actually, started at a very early age trying on our mother's or sisters' clothes. Women's clothes are so sexy, and men's are pretty bland. The silk and frilly excited us; we may have not thought about it for years, but the thought comes along, and we have to try it. It may meanonly picking up a pair of panmtyhose at the supermarket and wearing them a few times until they run. Later, the urge returns, and we want to go a little further. The old feelinging of excitement is still there.
This does not make us "gay". Unfortunately, society looks at us that way, but we are just enjoying our other side. Society does not look at women wearing men's clothing the same way. As has been pointed out, women used not to wear slacks; they were men's clothes. The whole women's right movement has been trying to give women the right to be more like men; however, there was no men's right movement. Women's shoes now look like men's; women's business suits are made like men's, including neckties. After all. look at pictures of the kings of England and you will see that they wore stockings - women didn't. The Scotsmen wore skirts before any women did!
I hope that your mother can begin somehow to get over her hurt and become more understanding of your father. It sounds as if they are both great people and had a great relationship before she discovered his crossdressing. I do hope that she will consider the SO portion of the forum to help gain understanding from others who have gone through what she is going through.

[DonnaT]

I just want to wish everyone a happy new year and hope that next year brings everyone all the good things they wish for and once again thanks for all the help, you folk will never know how much you did for me in dark hours when all seemed lost at times.

And here's wishing you a happier new year as well Jennifer and good health to you and your family.