hi - *LOCKED*

[Kay(SO)]

Ditto what Darlene and Beauty have said. And my further two cents.

You wrote:

If I'd been brought up with him dressing up then I'd probably not think twice about it, just as I've grown up with my gay male friends, I don't ever think about them being weird, they're just my friends I've always known the way they are.

I realize that you knew your dad as a different person your whole life. But, like Darlene and I said before. You knew only part of him as he hid the truth from you about WHO he really is. He hid it due to the fear of rejection, that you all wouldn't love him anymore, would think he's weird, etc... that fear kept him in the closet. He didn't want to lose the love and respect he has from you. He's older now and obviously has reached a point where he can no longer tolerate not feeling whole. He's not trying to hurt you all. He's trying to be honest (finally) and also be true to himself. I know it sounds mighty selfish and you would rather not have been told WHO he really is. That would have been so much easier. Don't you think it would have been easier for him in many ways too? People usually make changes when they get uncomfortable enough. Maybe he thought that you could handle it at this point in your life. Anyway, it's not his fault he is the way he is. It is his choice as to whether or not to tell. Before he couldn't do it and now he could.

You are NOT supposed to just suddenly accept this as if it's no big deal. It's a HUGE deal. It can feel earth shattering, like your whole life's exploded. But, it doesn't have to be the end of anything. It can be used as a new beginning. You can eventually have a new relationship with him and get to know who he truly is.

Fear is a magnificent force in our lives. Don't let your fears about what might or might now happen keep you stuck or prevent you from having some kind of relationship with him.

Time is what you will need. And his patience. It's not everyday that one finds out that a person near and dear to their heart is a CD'r. You need time to grieve. You've just lost the ideal that you thought your father was. Now you need to take the time to let that person go so that there will be room for the new concept of him. Don't push yourself or be so hard on yourself. The truth is, you may never be able to deal with it. But it will come down to how much you want to have him in your life. I know that as a spouse of a CD'r. I could leave. I thought of doing so in the beginning. It took time for me to look at the bigger picture and see all of the other things about him that I love and wanted in my life. If you are afraid of how far he'll take things then ask him about it. Communication about it is going to be key in your ability to find a place of acceptance.

If you realize after you've given it some time that you simply can't get past this "new" man then you have a right to be true to how you feel about it. I urge you to take all the time you need.

How could he possibly tell you all the truth? Look at what's happened and how you are all reacting to it? He was wrong to throw up in your face any debt you owe him. If I were you I would be a bigger person than he is and instead of working my bum off to "show" him and pay him back, I would work on accepting that you don't own him zip. He did what he did as a parent because that's what parents are supposed to do. You don't owe him anything. You are his daughter and he did his job as a parent plain and simple. It will not make you feel any better (though at this point you won't believe it and are convinced that it will) if you waltz up to him and throw money in his face. In the end you will be the one who feels like crap. For being shallow, resentful and acting exactly as he has. You end up hating yourself for it down the road so what looks like it would feel good now will only hurt you in the end. It won't do a thing to him except make him richer and put some money in his pocket. Personally, I would put more energy into showing that I turned out to be a better person than that. But that's just me and my take on things. You can still feel like he's behaved like an backside. Just don't do the same thing to him.

There will be brighter days ahead. Once you allow yourself to grieve and let go of the old ideas about your dad and your family. I'm a recovering alcoholic and drug addict with 17 years clean and sober. One of the most important things I learned after years of therapy is that my family was simply this fantasy that my parents created as did I in my own mind. Once I started looking at things more clearly, it turned out that we weren't really the family I had envisioned. Once I got honest about it.

Okay, I've blathered on a bit now so I'll stop. Hang in there. And keep writing out your feelings. We're here for you and take all the time you need to sort it all out.

And remember, time heels all wounds and if that doesn't happen,
time wounds all heels.

Oh yea and if your brain aches, print some of this out and read it bit by bit. Hugs sweetie,

Kay(SO)

Mum says that her greatest fear is not what she now knows about it but what she doesn't know and I feel the same. Is this as far as it goes or is there more, how can we know, he lied all his life to us so why should he be telling all the truth now or do we just take him at face value?

[Dixie Darling]

Jennifer,

You said:

"My father brought me up saying over and over that if I feel I'm right about anything then I have to stick to my guns no matter what, but also keep an open mind and listen to all sides and never be afraid to admit I'm wrong and accept being wrong with the same grace I'll accept being right with."

With the single exception of the fact that he's gone overboard with his dressing, isn't this what HE'S doing right now? Seems to be a matter of 'practicing what he's been preaching' over your lifetime. Keep in mind that he's fully aware that since the secret's out now, there's no taking it back so since it IS out in the open he's not holding anything else back from you or the rest of your family. Admittedly he's going about it all wrong since he's more or less cramming it down your throat at the current time. This 'overindulgence' that's going on right now is what we sometimes refer to as the "KICS" syndrome (Kid In the Candy Store) and as the reality of everyday life begins to set back it, you should see some relief from it.

You said:

"I've worked it out that I can save $300 a week working two jobs and it'll only take me 2 years to pay him back the $30,000 he says he paid for my high school education and if it's the last thing I ever do I'm going to drop that money down in front of him and say, " now we;re quits".

DonnaT pointed this out to you and so did I in a previous reply, but it bears putting emphasis on it again. You aren't obligated to pay him back ANYTHING! You didn't ask to be brought into this world any more than HE asked to be a crossdresser. When you were conceived it became his (and your mother's) RESPONSIBILITY to provide as good a life for you as they were able to. I'm certain that they probably made sacrifices along the way, but doing so is just a fact of life. Imagine for a moment how you might feel when you have a child if they felt obligated to repay you for raising them. What your father did wrong in this respect is placing too much emphasis on the money he's spent in providing for your health AND your happiness over the course of your lifetime. Such expenses are necessities for those who have children and as such should be considered just a normal part of maintaining the family unit. One last thought about this - Even if you did manage to repay your Dad from a monetary standpoint, regardless of how much it might be - even with interest - you'll never be able to truthfully tell him "Now we're quits" simply because he will always be your Dad.

You said:

"It's sad to think that he may have been living his life with that fear inside of him that what's now happened could happen with his wife and family, but isn't that his fault? He can't blame us for what's happened I don't think."

Yes, it IS sad to think that he's been living with this fear all his life. Here's something to think about: You are now living with the discovery you made so you're aware of a lot of different feelings now that you may not have ever had before. YOU are living with fear. . . . a fear that others might find out. You're living with anger. . . . . an anger as to why he didn't tell anyone about this before. You're living with sadness. . . . a sadness in seeing what this has done to your family. You're living with a disgust at the very thought that your Dad actually enjoys emulating a woman. Stop and think for a few minutes what your Dad has been living with all these years. You are intelligent enough to recognize that these same things have been with HIM since he first realized that he had this need. Sad, isn't it? But is is really his fault? He can't blame you, your sister, or your Mom. The fact of the matter is that he was a crossdresser way before he ever met your Mom. Even more importantly, (and if you ask him this he may very well verify it for you) he probably put on the first feminine garment between the ages of 6 and 12 years old. That's well before puberty ever began so it pretty much negates any association between sexuality and crossdressing.

So who DOES he place the "blame" on? We know nothing of your religious affiliation here in the group, but just as a matter of personal information for you, I am a Christian. I don't go around shoving it in folks faces, but I'm not ashamed of it either. I know you've probably heard the expression "God works in mysterious ways His miracles to perform." So if you MUST place the responsibility for your Dad being a crossdresser, then God is the entity who is responsible. However, I hold to the belief that God in His wisdom does NOT make any mistakes. Even those born with physical deformities or abnormalities are born that way for some purpose. The difference is that we can SEE those and we have compassion of those who are born that way. We CAN'T see the differences in those who are born with a different mindset even though those are just as numerous - and maybe even more so - as those with differences that are visible. What I'm saying here is that being born a crossdresser was not of your Dad's choosing, but he has had to deal with the hand he's been dealt in the best ways he could. I was much like your Dad for a long time. I dealt with it as best I could until through a lot of prayer and research it came to me that this was something that was a part of me and would always be. But WHY????? More prayers and a lot more research and that still soft voice revealed to me that I should use what I know about it to help others who were having trouble with it JUST LIKE I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU NOW. Furthermore, I do this WITHOUT the blessings of my own wife. Oh, she knows that I'm a crossdresser, but she's totally intolerant of it or anything associated with it - and that includes the help I try to give others. Thus, doing what I do is what I consider to be part of the 'trials and tribulations' I have to endure to provide what help I can to others.

So to sum this section of my reply up, no, your Dad can't blame any of you for what's happened.

You said:

"I love him because he's my father and he's a good man but I hate him for how he's hurt my mother and sis. I hope mum and him can work things out now they're back together again but I suppose only time will tell."

Jennifer, this is a question that you really need to think long and hard about. If your mother was eventually able to accept the fact that your Dad is going to be a crossdresser all his life, and she began the process of not seeing it as a perversion, but rather just a part of his overall personality, would that change YOUR way of viewing it? The reason I'm asking this is because I can tell in your posts that you and your mother have had a close relationship all your life. This is quite normal for a mother/daughter and when it's really close (as you seem to be) when something hurts one, it also hurts the other. In a like manner, when one heals, the other often does too. Maybe I'm reading too much into your posts, but I'm seeing a LOT of hurt and anger over your situation NOT necessarily because your Dad has been discovered to be a crossdresser, but rather because of the hurt you've seen in your mother. So if it were possible to restore her happiness, would that have any effect on YOUR attitudes? If it would, I would like to request that you ask your mother to go to my website and read the material there. There's a lot of good information (all "G" rated) there that might help her. The moderators here have ask that we not post any URLs to our web sites, but you can find it in my profile or elsewhere on this site in the links sections.

And finally, you said:

"don't hate my dad, he's really a good man and he's done more good in his life than bad and if it's true what you all say about him not being able to help how he is then there is an excuse for him but there's still no excuse for not owning up a long time ago."

This has been said before, but it's worth saying again. The reason that he's kept this secret for so long was because he didn't want to risk losing your mother by telling her. Apparently he had reason to believe that she would never understand it so I'm under the impression that his thoughts were why subject her to the hurt that it would bring her if he thought she couldn't get a handle on it. This is VERY COMMON among crossdressers. They fall in love with the girl of their dreams and get married - TRULY believing that once they are married their crossdressing will go away and be nothing more than a memory of the past. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. It may be suppressed successfully for a while, but the one thing that a CD can count on is that it will come back. And when it does it's usually with a vengeance. Once several years are invested in a marriage, and children have been born it becomes harder and harder to risk telling since that love for his wife has grown by leaps and bounds and now there's even more love to be shared with the children. The fear of losing it all is the reason a lot of crossdressers elect to try to just keep it a secret and deal with it in whatever way they can ALONE.

Dixie

[JenniferMu.(GG)]

Kay..Thank you, you're tops.

I really wanted to ask you a couple of things and also reply to some things others said, but time is pressing atm, I have to catch a flight home shortly as somethings happened with my mum and I'm told I need to be there so I'll get back to you in a day or two.

Bye bye for now. luvu...Jennifer.

[CJ]

Hi all,

Jennifer,

First, don't feel bad about "prattling," please. This is a discussion forum... it's a prattler's paradise (and I, for one, should know ).

And, yes, it's free therapy... inasmuch as friends and people who love us and care about us raise us up when we need it, all the while helping us see and understand the darker corners of our own lives.

I've been re-reading this entire thread now for the past half hour. There is more here, in these several dozen paragraphs, that is real to me than much that I've found on the internet regarding CD'ing. There's rawness here that goes from heart to heart to heart.

I cannot really add to anything that's been said (and said well and truly) in this thread, either as advice or as a simple "Jennifer, I hear you." Perhaps only this:

Yes, it's a devastating experience losing someone you love; you loved your father and now that father is gone from you. But, when you think of your father (your father, the person, not just his behaviour), who is it that you loved, really? The man who bounced you on his knee when you were a little girl? The man who married your mother? The man who, along, with your mother, brought you and your sister into the world? Was it any one of the various roles your father played in your life (as all of us are called upon to play in ours) that you loved most about him? Or was it the "I" behind all masks, the tormented and deeply conflicted soul--the person that your father was (and still is)--that you loved? That man is not dead.

I'm not saying any of this with the intent to belittle your own suffering (yours, your sister's, and your Mum's) nor to minimize the gravity of your family's situation. What you've experienced over the last eleven months or so is heart-rending; often, in such situations, sorrow and anger, grief and rage, regret and bitterness, grab hold of our soul and squeeze. It's painful. Damn painful.

The father you loved is gone. Correction: the man you thought was your father is gone. Yet, the man--the person--who is your father is still very much alive and, for better or for worse, still a part of your lives. Although he looks (and feels and smells) different to you now (and although he may have been wrong both in hiding his true self from you and in behaving callously the way he currently seems to be doing), he is that very person who bounced you on his knee when you were a little girl.

Like many others have said here, take the time you need to work this out. When the pain becomes a bit less intense, you just might find that the love you have for the person whom you know as your father is strong enough to loosen the grip sorrow, anger, grief, rage, regret, and bitterness have on your own soul--legitimate though these feelings are, right now (and, possibly, for quite a while to come).

Having said all this, the last thing I, or anyone, should do (tip of the hat to Kay, here) is to tell you how you should feel. To go into "Yoda mode" for just a second here: "Should? Should? Feel. Or do not feel. There is no should!"

Please, Jennifer, come back here as often as you want and need to (although, to be honest, I won't be saddened by your absence should I learn that it's merely because your education is taking up all of your time ).

Love,
CJ

[Allena]

I recently re-acquired a book that deals with a situation similar to yours, Jennifer.

The title is, "Dress Codes, of Three Girlhoods-My Mother's, My Father's and Mine", by Noelle Howey.

Her mother told her about her dad's crossdressing when she was 14.

My wife is currently reading our copy.

If you would like a copy of your own to read and cannot find it locally, please pm me and I'll send you a copy.
It's one of the very few stories coming from a child of a crossdresser that I know of.

[Dixie Darling]

Jennifer,

The last time we heard from you was two weeks ago on June 8th. I, as I'm sure the rest of us who have been following this thread, would like to hear from you if you can find the time.

Dixie

[DonnaT]

Yes, and we do hope your Mom is OK.

[Allena]

Same here.
I hope what took you home is not a serious problem anymore.

I hope you will return to share what you can with us.

I sent you an offer, through the personal message path, to get you a copy of Noelle Howey's book, "Dress Codes".
I have one I can get easily and send to you if you are interested.

My wife finished reading ours recently and found it to be helpful for her.

If nothing else, could you just give us a friendly goodbye if you do not plan on returning?

We'd all like to know that you're leaving and not have to worry and guess about why you stopped posting here.

Thanks!
May you take care and fare well!

[JenniferMu.(GG)]

I've lost count of how many times I've sat here at times this week thinking of how to say some things but everytime it never seems to come out right. I'm not sure that it's the right thing to do to be talking about some things which happen either. I just think life sucks and it seems to me the older I get the more it sucks or maybe there's a price for me to pay I just don't know anything anymore, I never thought my mother was the type of person who would try and take her own life but it seems I don't know her as well as I thought. She's ok now I think and out of hospital but it's like everyone has a zipper on their mouth nobody is talking to anybody, even my sister won't look at me or talk to me. Whats the sense of anything how do these things happen I just don't know what the point of having families is if this is what happens, it's sure put me off any thought of getting married and having a family. Sorry to be so dull and boring but thanx for being here for me to let some of this crap out and if I've offended anyone then I apologise deeply. I'm just so angry and furious but for what and at who any more than another I really don't know, I suppose it's just all about the whole deal but I've just got a terrible feeling of desperation if anyone knows what I mean and I want to lash out at someone, I just burn up with anger but at other times I think it's probably me who needs being lashed out at, it all just sucks.

Jennifer.

[Beauty]

Hi Jennifer,

I'm so sorry the road took that turn for your mom. I'm just glad she's ok. I thought no news was good news, but I guess not. Dixie was wise to start saying how much we missed you and post it publicly.

You're right life does suck as you get older, but life is also what you make of it. You're doing the best you can and those of us who've been through life's twists and turns really empathize with you.

You must defeat the anger now. It's up to you. It's time to let love rule. Try to remember positive things and let love conquer. Anger will get you nowhere, but will propel you backwards and deeper into a black hole.

I'm so sorry this is happening.

We love you Jennifer.

Beauty

[DonnaT]

Hi Jennifer, sorry to hear about your Mom.

I hope you can sit down and talk things over with her without any anger or accusations being tossed about. Keeping mum will only cause everyone to think about what everyone else may be thinking instead of knowing for sure.

I want you to know that you've inspired me to talk to my daughter.

Take care.

[Dixie Darling]

Hi Again Jennifer,

First, let me say that so sorry to hear about what happened, but I'm glad to hear that your Mom is OK.

I know it's difficult to analyze a situation such as why someone would do something like what your Mom tired to do, and with everyone keeping mum about it the way you say they are doing makes it that much more difficult to understand how you can help. However, I'm sure that as close-knit as you, your mom, and your sister are, sooner or later you'll find out what the root cause was. I don't want to sound defensive of your Dad here since it would APPEAR that (due to what's happened recently regarding the crossdressing issues) this would be the cause of your Mom's depression and subsequent actions, but don't automatically make an assumption such as that and jump to what could very well be the wrong conclusion. Although it can be a contributing factor, rarely is crossdressing alone the cause of such drastic measures. Perhaps your Mom was depressed in knowing that you would soon be going away to school, maybe it was due to the way the entire FAMILY had been upset more than just you and her. Also please try to keep in mind that the "in your face" attitude that your Dad has displayed could have easily been about something other than crossdressing and believe it or not, there are things that are far WORSE that could have happened if such was the situation.

Keep your chin up and maintain your own composure - your Mom will need that now more than she ever has before. And bear in mind that even though most of us here on this forum are, ourselves, crossdressers, we do have the capacity to be sincerely sympathetic and understanding of the problems you're facing. In a nutshell we DO CARE. So if you need a shoulder to lean on, or an ear to listen, just feel free to pour out whatever's on your mind and watch the support you'll get in return.

We'll all be looking for your future updates and you can be assured that you and your entire family will be in our thoughts and prayers.

Dixie

[Loretta Ann]

Hi Jennifer,

I too am sorry things have turned out as they have. Gosh you sure have a lot on your plate right now. Thank you for trusting us enough to share this with us.

Jennifer everyone in your family is hurting right now. Some of them are faced with something they don’t believe they can handle. That is probably the reason no one is saying anything. They are afraid.

It is important that you don’t allow the anger you feel destroy you. You have every right to be angry, and need to grieve the lose you are experiencing. There are stages you need to go through in order to get healthily beyond this.

Yes life sucks….Big time….That is true for all of us…. That is one of life’s realities. May you discover how to successfully live with that?

You have been placed in a situation that implies a very high calling (a very tough calling) at such a young age. If you are going to be able to survive this, you will need to find a new way of dealing with these kinds of things. And if you are able to do this you will become a much stronger person. Which could open doors for you in the future that you would not have been able to open were you not required to live through this.

May you find closure so that will become your reality?

Love Darlene.

[JenniferMu.(GG)]

Mum and I have had lots and lots of talks these last few weeks and I suppose we've reached some sort of a point where we understand each other a little better in regard to what's been going on in our lives the last year or so.

I know things will never be the same as they were with any of us but at least I have a better understanding of what my mother went through, even if I can't grasp the exact desperation she described to me. She told me she got to a stage where she felt useless and a failure as a wife, mother and family maker. She still can't come to terms with the 'other person' her husband has introduced into her life and as she's described to me over and over that it's like having to compete with another woman who is stealing his affections away from my mother and she tells me that makes her feel a failure and robs her of her womanhood. All this combined with me moving away and sis going to Grans although she's home now too, she says just flattened her will to survive and with her family home breaking up for the reasons it did MUm felt she failed us all by not being able to hold us all together, but I can't understand how she could rob us of herself forever, but I suppose with what I've felt this last year or so then I can have some sort of feel for what she's saying.

I know people say that I have to change how I think but is it right that others can do as they like and I have to accept that, but on the other hand I don't have the right to want what we always had and have people the way I've always known them. Isn't it the way that all of us can accept some things in life but others we can't and aren't we all entitled to say what we feel and what we can or can't deal with. I don't know anymore, I'm told on one hand to always think for myself and be responsible for my own decisions and then on the other hand I'm told that I'm the child and there are some things which I have to accept of my parents because they're the parents. Well that's the short of it anyway, it's been a bit more involved than that but I feel so angry and feel so cheated and I just can't feel the same way as I used to about some people, no matter how hard I try.

I guess now that things have settled down some, even though I feel so selfish about it at times, I have to get on with my life. I'm so p'd that I've lost my final year of school before uni and my career dream seems so far away but I suppose I just have to get on with it next year. I'm moving back to where I went before although I've lost those jobs now, but work isn't hard to find if you want it bad enough. Sometimes things happen for a reason Gran tells me, but sheesh I'd like to know why all this happened, but then life stinks for a lot of people and there's squillions more worse off than me and it's just so sad to see what's happening around the world so families and especially little children, so I suppose I'm starting to realise that no matter how it hurts me to think about the past year or so there is a future for me even if now it;s going to be harder to obtain with having to work nights and weekends and study during the week but I don't mind challenges and we've all had a few of those lately. I'm told soemtimes that I'm just a spoilt little child and maybe in some respects I am but it wasn't me who spoilt myself and it wasn't me who took away whatw as given to me in the way of a happy family home which used to ooze warmth and love adn when I think of the reason how it came about we all lost that then it just makes me so mad, but as they tell me, s..t happens.

I know some of you people see me as the enemy beacuse of what Is ay and the things I can't accept in my family, but on the other hand I say that others should be free to live as they wish. I suppose I'm a first class Btch and hypocrite but I've nearly driven myself crazy or maybe I have with trying to say, ' ok, everything is ok, I'm fine with it all if that's how it has to be in our home', but I can't lie to myself, if I did then I've lose my self respect and that's just about all I;'ve got right now or it feels thatw ay anyway, so I don't know but I guess I just ahve to get on with things and see what happens and where it takes us.

I do appreciate the time all of you take wasting on me, but I do read everything over and over and it's obvious there are some very brilliant men and women here who care very deeply for others and that in itself teaches me something valuable. When I read some of the things you all write in the forums I'm just blown away.

Jennifer.

[DonnaT]

Jennifer, I don't usually speak for anyone else, but believe me, none of us think of our time talking to you was waisted.

You've had a good deal of growing up to do in the last few months, and taking the step to open up to a bunch of strangers, especially transgendered strangers after finding out that your father is transgendered, took a lot of courage. Clearly a sign that you aren't spoiled.

Not much more I can say other than, at least for your own sake, let go of the anger please.