hi - *LOCKED*

[Stephanie W]

Jen

I'm glad to hear that you and your Dad are continuing your discussions and you're learning more about him. Keep it going and I'm sure you'll both benefit from them in your relationship. Once you do, see what you can do together to help your Mom. If there is still anything there for her, it's worth saving.

Good luck Jen and I wish you all the very best for a happier new year. This was a tough one but you got through it. Stay strong and I'm confident things will get better for you all.

Stephanie

[JenniferMu.(GG)]

Hi,

I was talking with my Dad last weekend about everything, I asked him if he thought it was worth continuing on as he did dressing up and having everything go off the rails like it has for our family, he said he wished it had never happened and if he could go back in time and make it all right again he would. He also told me that for the last few years before we discovered what he did he nearly went mad because the need to dress up was getting stronger each day and the more he tried to stop doing it the worse it seemed to get.

I've tried very hard to try and understand what he's been through but I can't grasp how something like this can compare with losing a family, or more I suppose losing his wife of over 20 years. They both say they still love each other but Mum says she can't live with it hanging over her head every day and dad says he would become intolerable to live with if he couldn't do what he has to. I've told him several times that I can't udnerstand that, because he went for over 20 years married to Mum and only dressed upnow and then when he was home alone, so why all of a sudden does it take over his life and break us all up.

I suppose we all have to take some part of the blame and I accept my share for my hysterics for the first year and the yuk they caused, but I do love him to death and we're getting along ok together and I try to look out for him best I can as he needs a woman around him because he's not really good at the domestics of running a house. Him and Mum are going ahead with their divorce and my sis is taking that harder than me but I guess we'll get over it, but it sure puts a dampner on my view of marriage. Why go through all the years of creating a family only to walk away at what I see as a critical time in all our lives. I doubt I'll ever become real relaxed about seeing my Dad come home from work and change into womens clothes, but I suppose it could be worse and it's a bit easier now seeing him like that than it was before and now there's just the two of us in the house there's not so much tension.

I've split up with my b/f because he put too much pressure on me wanting to know why they were divorcing and also he smothered me way too much and tried to have me be someone I'm not. I really liked him but I couldn't let myself fall in love with him and do the things he wanted because I think I've got a fear now of a partner having secrets which I should know about but not told, if you follow me. I hope one day I get over that because I want to have my own family one day and maybe time will heal things for me in my mind. I wanted to talk about it with my Dad but then I thought it might make him feel worse than he does and I want things to try and get better for him and make him happier because I know it's not his fault how he is even if I can't understand it, so I told him we just decided to split up. I've sort of lost some of my respect for our mother for running away when the going got a bit tough as I thought she was better than that, but I'd never tell her that because even if I've lost some respect for her my love for her is still as strong as ever if anyone can understand that.

I hope what's happened to us isn't the normal thing to happen in families where the husband crossdresses, it's not at all nice and in quieter times to myself I go over it all, and I think that if he'd found a way to break it softer to us all this crap may not have happened because it was such a shock walking in on him like sis and I did, and I doubt we'll ever forget that sudden shock, but I guess we'll never know will we and wishing won't make it any better. I've put my further education on hold still so he won't be on his own, but I think after this year he'll have to learn to cope by himself or else find another partner as I don't want to leave it too late before I restart finishing my education, as there's a new crop of entries into uni every year which makes it harder for me the longer I leave it.

Thanks for allowing me to get some things off my chest as it does help because my dearest life long g/f has gone away getting ready for uni and it's another thing gone out of my life as we've always talked every secret over together we've ever had in our lives, and that's something which I have to deal with now too in losing her as a backstop, although she's so much happier away from her father which is more important.

Thanks, Jenny.

[Paige]

Jenny,

Hi hon, it's Paige here. Although I have not posted in this thread before I just felt the need to post now.

I am so very proud of you Jenny. As I have followed this thread since you first posted I have seen you grow and mature into a fine young adult that has learned compassion and understanding among many other fine qualities.

I'm sure all of us that have followed this thread are equally as proud as I am and I'm sure you will see more posts to follow.

You said in your last post.....

I've split up with my b/f because he put too much pressure on me wanting to know why they were divorcing and also he smothered me way too much and tried to have me be someone I'm not

If I were to try and find a better example of your growth I don't think I could have said it better than you have.

We love you Jenny and wish you nothing but the best. We are so so very proud of you. Be good, take care and let us know howyou are doing.

Hugs, Paige

[DonnaT]

They both say they still love each other but Mum says she can't live with it hanging over her head every day and dad says he would become intolerable to live with if he couldn't do what he has to. I've told him several times that I can't understand that, because he went for over 20 years married to Mum and only dressed upnow and then when he was home alone, so why all of a sudden does it take over his life and break us all up.

There are a lot of different levels pertaining to one's transgenderedness.

Some of us can go their whole life without feeling that urge others of us get to satisfy the need for more. This is one of the biggest fears wives and SO's have with respect to the trans partners urgings. Thus there usually lingers that doubt and question of "What's next?"

There are some that can't cope for various reasons with the need to dress more.

Some in family situations end up getting careless, and thus get caught by a family member.

Some finally break down and tell their partner.

Some turn to drink or drugs trying to fight it.

Some commit suicide.

We really don't know why the urge grows stronger in some of us, and not others. Maybe it's the pressure building up inside from trying to suppress it, maybe something else. But it does happen to many of us.

[JenniferMu.(GG)]

Thanks Paige for your kindness. Since our family split up and my g/f moved away I spend a lot of time by myself thinking and when I think back to a couple of years ago I get quite sad sometimes and other times I buck myself up and think maybe all this happened partly to prepare me for life ahead, who knows. My Gran alsways says that no matter how bad things look at the time there's always some good comes out of it, I can't wait for the good to come out of this, if any.

I'm not a quitter and I never thought our mother was but s..t happens they say, so I won't desert him and I know Sis will come round too when she gets a bit older and independant of Mums influence. Sis is not really like me, she doesn't say much, whereas my mouth runs away from me sometimes and gets ahead of me and gets me into trouble, but as lots of you people here say, we are what we are and I'm learning that more and more.

Donna, what you say is what I'm trying to understand and accept. I think to myself that if it was someone else's Dad and wasn't my Dad involved then it would never have concerned me. I think I've said before that some of my good friends I've grown up with are Gay ( I know he's not Gay though) and it doesn't change one little bit how I think about them because I still love them as much as ever and I'm always in there sticking up for them when someone attacks their sexuality. As I said, it's just that it's my Dad and it takes a bit of getting used to although it's a lot better now than it was two years ago, and I'm hoping to heaven that it's going to get a lot better so I can help him more. We are good buddies and I love him so much, even though our personalities clash at times, and it makes me sad to see how he looks when he thinks I'm not looking as I know it eats away inside him that Mum isn't with him anymore, but life sucks at times doesn't it, there's a lot of sadness in the world so it gets spread around I guess.

Thanks for all your help, it's all helped more than you'll ever know... Jenny

[Stephanie W]

Hi Jenny

I've come to look forward to your posts with great anticipation as I see the gradual but important progress you're making. It might not seem like it at times, but you ARE moving forward and that's so nice to see.

In your last but one post, I felt a reasonance of quiet resignation in the tone of your post about the way things are in your life. An admission of sorts that what has happened has happened and the chips are beginning to fall where they may. That's a very positive step as you begin to figure out where you go from here in your life. You need to be free from the pain and hurt of these last two years to make informed decisions about what's best for YOU. It will take time but time is indeed a good healer.

Trying to make sense of why your Dad feels a stronger urge to dress is something you're trying hard to do and that's OK. The reality of why some of us are like that is as Donna said, not easily defined. We are all different. Some of it has to do with the stresses in our lives and many of us are seeking a way to alleviate that. Dressing does that. It's wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that as your parents marriage was breaking down, it was that stress than was contributing to his increasing urges. Even after the fact, as you said, he seems lost right now and there will be a period of adjustment as he settles into his 'new' life. With or without you, he knows his life (and yours) will no longer be the same.

I can also understand why you feel that his desire to dress is more important than losing his family. In truth, this is an unfair comparison because it's not about making a choice. It's a matter of emotional survival and a response to that is borne more on instinct than one of an arbitary decision to abandon those closest to him. His "choice" would be one of keeping the family together but your Mom chose otherwise and that's what you all have to live with. It's sad but unless she comes around, that's just the way it is.

Jen, I admire your resolve in looking after your Dad but even moreso for knowing what you have to do for yourself and your education. Having less tension at home now will help you focus on that objective and you need to keep that going.

I've split up with my b/f because he put too much pressure on me wanting to know why they were divorcing and also he smothered me way too much and tried to have me be someone I'm not.

I think you've made a very wise decision in doing that. Now, if you read that sentence over again and equate it to your Dad's situation, is there really a lot of difference between you? Being pressured to stop doing something that is an integral part of him is in fact, making him someone he is not. Although in a different way, he is feeling smothered too. You know that feeling from your b/f so perhaps thinking about it from your Dad's point of view may give you some valuable insight.

You are certainly not alone in your family situation at all. There are lots of other families that have had to deal with the very same issues. How they deal with them depends on many factors which may be different from yours. As I've said before, if there were other problems in the marriage, cding provide a convenient opportunity to bail and your Mom may have been looking for a way out for who knows how long? Rare is the case where cding is the sole reason for a breakup.

Whatever happens, your obvious love for your parents will provide each of them the comfort they need during the difficult times. Be there when you can, but always make sure you save enough time for you.

Good luck Jen.

Stephanie

[JenniferMu.(GG)]

Thanks Stephanie for your words of wisdom, it means a lot to be able to get information 'straight from the horses mouth' (no offence intended), so many of you have been very patient, I know I go on and on about the same things a lot but believe me it is getting better, and I'm accepting now that things will never change so I've been looking at ways of helping my Dad so we can get on with out lives better.

When I think of where I was two years ago and today, well I don't talk to him any more on a superficial level about his 'other side', and I don't think I'm in denial about it anymore and I owe a lot of this to the people here and to the counsellors I used to talk to in Sydney.

I've come to realise from talks with my Dad that it's on his mind a lot that he'd like to get out of the house with his 'lady self', so last week I suggested that we could go to a movie together soon with him in some sort of female clothing and maybe that'd make him feel better. I thought the movies would be a good place where he might get away with it better. He looks not too bad as a woman and with a bit of help he might pull it off. I told him I'll help him with what looks best to wear and make him up as he always goes a bit too heavy on the make up and it usually looks a bit attention grabbing if you get my meaning. He seems to think more is better but I hope I can convince him that less is better, but i guess as a guy he doesn't have the knack of highlighting or softening his natural facial structures, but we'll get him there eventually I hope. I just want to see him happy and settled more so we can both move on with our lives. If anyone had suggested to me even 3 months ago that one day I'd be helping my father dress as a woman and go to the movies, then I'd say they needed their head read, but I guess things change with time huh? I think we can pull it off without turning too many heads, but in our city here people are fairly liberal in their attitudes with this thing. I took him to the annual Mardi Gras here a couple of weeks ago and over 300k people turned out to line the streets to watch the parade, I wanted him to see that lots of people get out and don't hide away brooding.

Thanks once again for your kind words and help. Jenny.

[DonnaT]

Very cool Jenny. Good to see things have progressed to a new level.

Note that there are some places in Australia, like Melbourne, that have TG support groups, where the gurls get together and sometimes go out together.

[Jacqueline Manesis]

These posts are rather old and I am not sure if I can add to them or not. I just wanted to say thank you Jennifer for sharing what you have shared about how you have dealt with this very personal experience.

It was not until I read your posts that I could come to have some understanding of why my ex wife could not deal with my crossdressing. I like your Dad hid it for several years. I had been doing it since I was 11 years old, maybe sooner than that. I quit doing it when I fell in love with my ex. I did not want to lose her love and affection due to what I considered at the time to be a "freakish" obsession with wearing womens clothing.

The truth of the matter is I never really quit. I just got real good at hiding any evidence. I had more pantyhose than she did. The thing was mine were up in the ceiling tiles and hers were in the drawer. I only wore them when I was certain I would not get caught. I felt that if I got caught I could lose the most important thing in my life at the time.

About 7 years into our marriage it finally happened. I got caught. She had gone out to work and it was my day off. I found a skirt of hers that I could fit and she had TONS of make-up etc. I could not resist the urge to check it all out. To make a long story short, she is smaller than I and I managed to stretch out the waistband on her skirt and also got make-up on it. She confronted me and I blabbed on myself.

The thing is I did not know how she would react. She seemed to be taking it in stride but as she learned more about it she learned the depth of my situation.

For six months she seemed to totally accept it. She showed no bad felings toward it at all. In fact she helped me to buy things, she taught me how to do make-up properly and even went to my local support group and did some of the other CDs make up as we got ready to attend a LGBT Prom. So for a time I thought I was living a dream.

Here is where I went wrong. I like your father put it right in her face. I too felt like hey I pay the bills here and if I can't do this in my home where can I. I was very selfish about it. All I can explain is that this new found freedom opened up pandora's box. It had been sealed so long and building up so much pressure that when it opened............well My fem self jumped out like a jack in the box.

Eventually it lead to divorce and she made the same statement that you made about your Dad. She said that I was not the man she married. I understand this and we split ways. We are still friends to this day however.

What I did not understand fully until I read your post was how this could hurt someone else. For years I pondered this. I felt like my dressing was as harmless as any other hobby. I did not see how my dressing could cause someone else pain. I just did not get it. I understood how it could make one oncomfortable but I never did my CDing to do something bad to the ones I loved. I looked at it the same as anything else that may cause one shame.

When a man first meets a girl and lets say your one who scratches their butt when noone is looking for the sake of this discussion. Would you come out on the first day scratching your butt and declare that this is who I am so deal with it and if you cannot then your not for me? Of course not. So if she catches you the butt scratcher scratching his butt 7 years into the relationship........was he hiding it so that she could catch him later therefore he lied and did this to her and destroyed their relationship?

Now I know it's not the same thing but use it only to illustrate a point. When is the right time to let the one you love know what you are doing and risk losing what it is that you have built? At what point does one take this chance?

Do you scratch your butt on the first date or do it privately and hope she never catches you? I think that's how most CDs feel about CDing. It's embarrasing for a long long time until we come to some acceptance of ourselves. It is the single largest secret many of us hold for many many years. It is a nightmare to be caught.

In the case of your father I disapprove with how he handled it but I do understand it fully. I made the same mistakes and learned from it. I never did blame it on anyone but myself however. So shame on him for how he acted when it all blew up.

One thing I would like to add though that I have not seen posted. Since I came to accept myself and my CDing alot of things have changed. One of the most important things is that I can accept the fem side of myself and this in itself makes me a better man. Before I was so macho that I overcompensated and actually still do subconciously at times. The more I explore my fem side the more the positive atributes of my fem self trickle over to the man I am when not dressed up as a girl.

What I am saying is that my own acceptance of my fem side has begun to result in a more complete and better person on the whole. I am asking you to take notice of this with your Dad. You may see him now not as the Dad you once knew but with time you may see a side of him that you may have wished was there in the past. That is my hope for your relationship with him.

SO Jennifer if you ever read this I want to say thank you again for sharing. Your wisdom is beyond your years and you have taught this old girl about a few things I pondered over for years.

One more thing I would like to add. At times life can seem unbareable. Things just seem to go all wrong. Those times in my life I mentioned above were amongst some of the hardest in my life. Today I am glad that all happened. Today I am love with a very supportive SO. Today I know not to handle it the way I did back then and I have never been happier.

You have a bright future ahead of you Jennifer and I applaud your effort to understand you father. Inside he is still the same person you grew up with. I am glad you have come to some level of acceptance to the point you would go out in public with him. That is amazing!

I hope you visit us here again one day. I can never fully express how much you have helped me as others helped you.

[JenniferMu.(GG)]

Hi Jacqueline,

Thanks for your lovely post. I come in here from time to time and read through the site and it seems to give me a sort of sense of ties that bind sort of thing because the men and women in here are so nice and helpful to each other and since I moved away from home interstate I’ve found the people here do something for me in my mind which I can’t find anywhere else. The men and women here have become sort of like my mentors, (and more since my Gran died last year, because she was my rock and she knew most things about most things)when things aren’t going that well I sort of reach out to them here hoping they won’t see me as a silly girl. It’s funny how people from the other side of the world become part of your life.

I have to honestly say that I still wish my Dad didn’t do what he does, but I’ve come to know that it’s something he has to do so I’d never let him know how I really feel, even though now I don’t see him very often but we do talk on the phone on a very regular basis. I’ll always support him where I can in anything in his life because he’s my Dad and he’s my creator and sometimes in a moment to myself I feel so awful about the way I acted up at first with it all but I just couldn’t stop because it was such a shock and I had no idea of how to handle it. I just felt like my world had come to an end because I’d always had apicture of what my Dad was and what he meant to me but that Saturday afternoon changed all our lives forever, but I’m working on making things with my Dad as close to what theyw ere before as I can.

I’ve thought about all this so much since and I’ve tried to explain to him that he must surely have experienced in his 55 years that if you know someone all your life as a certain type of person and suddenly you’re hit with a completely different picture oft hat person beyond all your life’s expectations, then it’s impossible to suddenly change in your mind how you’ve always seen and known that person. Especially if it’s someone you love so much and is part of your existence with every breath you take.
My Dad and I have been very close as far as my memory goes back and in many ways he probably treated me as a grown up long before he may have been expected to, and some people have told him over the years to let me be a kid. He’s always given me the best of everything including a great education as far as I let it before I walked away from that, but I’ve thought that maybe it back fired on him in the way that I was 17 when I walked in on him in Mums dress but probably I was a lot older in the head than 17, but if I’d been more immature maybe I’d have not freaked out so much. Can you see what I’m getting at, I hope so, but right now I’m a bit hyped up over other things which maybe you’ve read in the thread . ‘Do you know how I feel’ on this forum.

Anyway, the more I read which people like you write from the heart the more I hope to understand, although I don’t think I’ll ever be able to understand why a man wants to go around dressed up like a woman. The best I can do right now is accept that it happens and from what I’ve read it’s probably something to do with their brain and it doesn’t stop them from being good smart people and that’s a reason why I think that if a guy is like that then it would be best to let his kids know from as soon a s they can, because if you grow up with something you grow up with it as part of your way of life and it’s no big deal, it’s like any other custom of people, you know nothing else and if it doesn’t harm you then what’s the big deal, you can be cool with it, but if you grow up with thinking that something is this way and suddenly that idea is shot to pieces then it’s not easy to deal with, well that’s how I think anyway.
I rmember last year Gran was talking to Mum and telling her that she should rethink things about divorcing him and Gran said that one day she might regret it, because Gran lost mum’s Dad before Gran was 30 and she never looked at another man until the time she died and she told Mum love should be forever and rise above everything else, she said that if it would have brought her husband back then she’d have bought him all the dresses money could buy, it’s not that big a deal she said.

Thanks again…Jenny.

[MLee(SO)]

Hello All,
(Sorry, another long post, I hope Jenny is still around to read these things) I hope not to be too redundant with what I say here.

I am fairly new to this forum but no spring chicken putting it mildly.
As a woman who has found out my soon to be new husband enjoys ‘dressing up’ as a woman I have felt my feelings yo-yo on this issue. Sometimes it was uncomfortable and a bit scary to say the least.
Feelings are not right or wrong, they just are what they are.
It is not something I have not seen before, over the years of my life, however it is the first time in any type of relationship that is so very personal.
* First thing I wish to say is I am so sorry Jenny’s family went through such turmoil and pain, I don’t believe in my heart he ever meant things to hurt the way it did, not intentionally. I too believe he loves his family very much. As I read your posts I agree with those that said Jenny is an amazing courageous girl.
So many things have been touched upon in this thread it is marvelous.
I applaud Jenny’s devotion to her father and how you have made efforts to really think this thing over in her young sweet life. As I read this thread it brought to mind issues of growing older on a personal level I had not thought of for many years. We all have our issues of suffering on many levels unfortunately.
* I wish to share something with you. I hope you take this in the heartfelt sharing way I mean this and not as criticism or to disregard your feelings at all. There is much wisdom posted by many in this thread.

Quotes Jenny;
Anyway, the more I read which people like you write from the heart the more I hope to understand, although I don’t think I’ll ever be able to understand why a man wants to go around dressed up like a woman. “

* In my generation, as I was a child born as a ‘baby boomer’ (one who was born after WWll late 1940’s) we never said the word ‘sex’ let alone be allowed to speak of it.
As girls we were not allowed to wear but dresses, skirts in school for the younger years of my life, the skirts had to be below the knee or you were sent home to change. Matter of fact it was not really acceptable to see women in ‘pants’ much in public places. I think I was in 8th or 9th grade when things began to change.
It was only some time in the late 1960’s we were allowed to wear pants, jeans, capris and the like to school as it was NOT accepted a girl dress like a ‘boy’. It soon became the ‘norm’ to see a girl come to school in ‘pants’ and shorts had to be pretty much at the knee as well, showing too much skin was considered taboo.
Certainly not at social functions, like school dances for example.

My generation was taught little girls should play with dolls, dress a certain way and act like a ‘lady’. Never curse or show temper as it was not lady like behavior. It was the bad girls that showed too much skin and one should always be a ‘good girl’.
Little girls were told to prepare growing up to be a good wife and have many children taking care and obeying their husband as he was the one who would bring home the bacon, sort of speak, and we were to keep the home clean, not work out side the home unless absolutely necessary and those jobs were ‘women’s work’ like in the field of sewing and the like. Raise his babies and have his supper on the table when he walked in. We were told to be sweet to them and take care of the home.

“Who wears the trousers?”
Boys on the other hand were raised to play with trucks, 6 shooters (guns of the Wild West) and act like a ‘man’ not allowed showing emotions of sensitivity like tears and such. Even they had to dress appropriately never wearing t-shirts for work or for social functions there had to be a tie at least if no suit jacket. The hats began to disappear as they never went out much with out a cover on their heads before the war. They were prepped to go out into the world and support their families doing ‘manly jobs’ like mechanics or pumping gas or military life and the like, just to name a few.

This is not to say that this issue of CDing will ever be that way, but it is food for thought as to how society has dictated how we should think about ‘wrappings’ and proper ways to present our selves in public. Eating with the right fork and how to conduct ourselves, what to wear, has also changed over the years. Fads and fashions have pretty much come full circle.
Circumstances and situations are basically the same but the way people do things now is so very different then back in the ‘olden days’ as some call them (things were not always as simple as they seemed, even then).

Time has changed so very much over my life and will continue to change and evolve as we do, (it is not easy, I don’t think it will ever be easy), in our thinking and what is considered acceptable. Frustration will always creep up its ugly head for all kinds of situations for all our lives.

Personal note to Jenny;

I am sure he never meant to consciously hurt his family.
I so enjoy watching you grow and I for one of many hope you re visit here and keep us appraised as to how you are. I say this because my only child, a daughter only made it to age 19 before a drunk driver took her from this world in 1989. As I read this and watched you, it brought out so much for me in warm feelings of that motherly thing I have not felt for a time now.
This is a splendid thing, I think and it is with a soft smile I fondly thank you for sharing, dear girl.
I hope you never close your mind to changes although sometimes they are very difficult to adjust to, accept, or endure on many levels and for many reasons.
I am also very proud of you.
In conclusion I would like to add, once the lights are out, and our eyes can not see, it is the person standing there we love, and it matters not, the wrappings, but what is in our hearts for each other.