His beauty, at my expense....

[Jade (SO)]

Searching the internet for answers is a tough job, let me tell you! Upon my search in finding the answers, and help to be able to handle all the problems, and depression that comes with this lifestyle, and most importantly how to handle a suicidal crossdressing boyfriend, I had found, all the wrong sites. [[Until I had come across this site, of course =) ]]
I would find sites, dedicated to making the SO the victim in the relationship. All they seemed to be, was a bunch of woman who would complain about how they were so hurt and how ridiculous their CDSO's were for being this way. And to see this, really bothered me. To see that women would shun their own loves, and then turn around and make themselves the victim.

Granted, as an SO, we go through a lot of suffering, along with our loves. If we devote ourselves to being there completely, through the thick, and the thin, we are selling our souls to something so painful. But it is the price we pay, because we love.

One of my questions for you, tonight is..
Are we really victims?
Some women go through years of not getting even one piece of jewelry, or new designer clothes. Some women have been in the same relationship for years upon years, and go on without knowing about their loved one's love for female clothing. Sometimes, we even have to endure so much stress, with our CD going through a painful process, and looking in our direction for complete support and understanding.
It is not a very luxurious life, but I can tell you one thing, I know that I am no victim. I know that, no matter how my love dresses, no matter how my love feels, I will be there for him, to support him and back him up 100%. And if I can't be the best damned girlfriend I can be for him, then I will try a little harder.

I had known a lady, who had found out her husband wore women's clothes. She was shocked, appalled, pretty much every negative emotion you could think of. They had been together for 35 years, and all this time, he kept it secret. Before he told her, she never stopped talking about how much of an amazing man he was, and how much she loved him. Why did her love change once she found out?
Was it because she was worried about her own image?
Was it because he had not been completely honest with her?
Needless to say, she filed for divorce.

It bothered me, that someone's love can change, almost instantaneously. I didn't think love was that disposable.

Now, granted, I think that it is necessary to be informed about such as early as possible. My boyfriend had told me about his crossdressing within the first year of us dating, and it was the best thing he could have done, and really brought us closer.

But why do some SO's make themselves out to be such a victim?
To me, I believe that love is amazing, and strong, and if we fall for CD, we should embrace and support their lifestyle. If we can just throw away years of love, for something like this, then were we really in love with them? Or are we just making an excuse to leave? Are we afraid of people seeing us as lesbians?

I know not all SO's are like this, and I don't mean to generalize, if I do. I guess I just have so many thoughts, and so many questions that I don't understand completely, that have been eating at me for a long long time.

Well, thats about all I have to say for now. Any feedback or answers of any sorts are greatly appreciated <3

[DonnaT]

As you say, one can't or shouldn't generalize about these things, so there is no one answer to your question of why.

Not everyone has the same likes and dislikes. And a lot of people are socialized in such a way as to find these things unacceptable. Or maybe it's a religious issue. Maybe it's a fear issue. Maybe it's a self image issue. ETC. ETC. ETC.

Heck, there are some who would rather their husband be a cheater than a CD.

We'd all like to think that love would be the stronger emotion, but sometimes it's not enough.

Heck, there are a number of CDs that believe they themselves are victims of being transgendered. So, is it any wonder that some SOs feel they are too?

Anyway, it's good to hear that you are accepting of your BF.

[KimberlyS]

WOW Jade. For searching for answers you really seem to have it together.

Life is change and relationships more than double the changing factor. Most people can handle change in smaller amounts. What may be a small change for one person may be a larger change for a different person. Larger amounts of change can really test who we and others are as a person. It goes beyond a relationship, but a relationship can help get through the change, or make the change harder.

Being a victim is a change. And we are victims every day usually multiple times a day. Victims of phone solicitors, of junk mail both on paper and electronically, maybe victim of persons at work, someone beating you to a seat on a bus and many other ways. Many of those are minor or may not be considered as creating a victim to others . Then there are those that are victims of an accident, a theft, rape or other crimes and other ways. Recently and currently , myself along with others have been a victim of a past co-worker. Sometimes the question is what are we the victim of?

How each of us handles being a victim/a change/a bump in our life, is different for each and every one of us. Often being in some type of relationship, being it a marriage or similar, a family, co-worker/department group, a club, or other type of group can help some one get through the change easier. Or sometimes can make it worse. Often communication is an important part for people to deal with the change. But also communication skills seem to be lacking in most, or all of us.

.... One of my questions for you, tonight is..
Are we really victims?

So Yes, we are all victims of many things each day. But we as individuals can continue to act and whine about being a victim and have a victim mentality. Or we can just deal with, learn and grow from it, and move on with our lives. IMHO communication is a big part in how we deal with being a victim and changes in general in our lives. IMHO improving the communication with my spouse is the best thing I have ever done other than marring her. It got us through the time of major CDing issues and since then other things. Learning to communicate better with each other has improved a good marriage and made it better. It has given us a deeper, fuller and more intimate relationship on many levels. Are we perfect? Not even close to it. Especially me. But working more on our communication skills together and separately can be fun and rewarding also. And for us it took professional help to aid in developing and working on the communication skills.

Welcome to the forum Jade.

kimberlys-cd
joe in a skirt

[Virginia]

Hi Jade,

As my sisters have eluded to, we are all victims of someone or something, it is how we manage these situations and each of us handles this victimization differently.

I can only speak for myself and until I found this sanctuary, I had questions. I did not necessarily feel like a victim, but I definitely had questions and the girls here directly and indirectly gave me some good advice and pointed me in various directions. I decided that it was eventually up to me to determine my victimization status and for me I found that I was indeed NOT a victim ------ I was actually blessed with a GIFT! that of being (whatever one wants to define the gift as) bi-gendered, transsexual, transgendered........... whatever. The more I delved into this new aspect of my personality, I found that I had actually been dealing with it all my life, but had either ignored it or suppressed it. I had reached a crisis in my life and this "gift" if you will, finally had had enough of being ignored or suppressed and she = Virginia came out full force. I will never forget where I was and what was going on when this "still small voice" in my head came out and basically said,
"Honey, you have got a problem and together we are going to get through it!" WE did and now as I so proudly say, "I am Virginia and Virginia is me and we are thoroughly enjoying our Magical Mystery Tour!"

No victims here as Virginia is the stronger of my existence and I would not trade my journey for anything!

We are here to help each other and we hope that you will continue to share with us and participate with us.

Love,

Virginia

[Elizabeth]

Hi Jade,

Welcome to the forum. I see my sisters here have given their usual wonderful observations and advice. There is not a whole lot I can add, but there are a few things. I would like you to hear.

One of those is that it's ok to feel like a victim. It don't make you a bad person, nor does it mean you don't support your SO. In many ways we are all victims. And just supporting your boyfriend can bring persecution and unwanted opprobrium. I know there are many significant others who learned of their SO's dressing only after marriage. Sometimes many years later.

It's not uncommon to feel the trust of the relationship was breached by not disclosing something so important. And most of us here advise our sisters to come out to their loved one's before marriage if possible, but as soon as practical for everyone else.

So in many cases one does feel like a victim. One might feel like they put it all on the table, while their cding boyfriend or husband did not. These can be taken as fundamental issues of trust, and can be the source of great pain.

I don't think it's so much of a worry about having these feelings as much as what to do about them, when one does have them? I believe the feelings of mistrust have to be dealt with, and measures taken to rebuild trust. This includes understanding why the CDer felt he needed to lie. How he felt he had no choice. These are important discussions we need to have if we are to heal.

Again, welcome to the forum, I know you will find the support you are looking for and share your wisdom with us that we might grow as well.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[CJ]

Hi all,

Jade,

Generally, both CD's and SO's will agree: it's not the crossdressing that destroys (or, at the very least, imperils) a relationship, it's the lack of honesty on the part of the CD and the breach of trust that lack represents. Especially if it comes to light after a significant commitment has been made on the part of both partners.

Does that mean the SO is a victim in all this? No. Does it mean that she can feel victimized? Yes. Like Elizabeth said, that doesn't, in itself, make anyone a bad person. The thing is, not all SO's feel this way. Perhaps it's a matter of a given SO's choice not to feel victimized, perhaps it's simply something that's not part of her personality. Perhaps, yet again, some SO's simply want to leave behind the emotional paralysis that often comes with victimhood--real or perceived. There are, after all, as many ways of being an SO as there are of being a CD. Similarly, not all CD's feel victimized by their lot in life; some (many?) see it as a Magical Mystery Tour. Some don't. The most interesting feature about how we "see" things is that it can be different than what it currently is. It's always within our power to change the way we look at things. It's not easy. Not by a long shot. But it's certainly doable.

About the whole suddenly stopping to love someone when we discover that person is not who we thought they were, I'll have to partially disagree with you. Although I won't presume to speak for GG's here, I'm at least assuming that most heterosexual women (I did say "most") have no conscious desire to partner themselves to men who--for whatever reason--have a deep need to express their gendered and sexual selves in feminine ways. Uh, let me amend that: in traditionally feminine ways. Quite the contrary: most women are attracted to men whose gender identity is concordant with their physical attributes and behaviours. Not talking about über-virility or machismo, here. Just traditional masculinity.

When a woman discovers--again, after a significant emotional commitment on her part--that she "didn't get what she paid for," I think she's perfectly entitled to "withhold payment." In other words, to invest her emotional energy elsewhere. I know this way of looking at things will draw criticism from some quarters ("a marriage needs to be worked at," and all that) but I remain steadfast in my belief that, if the foundations of a relationship aren't cemented by honesty and truthfulness from the get go, no amount of brick-laying and crack-filling will help it withstand the constant stormy weather generated by revelations of deception.

I say I only partially disagree with you, Jade, because, of course, there's another way of looking at this (isn't there always? ): if--and it's a huge "if"--both parties fully understand--and I mean "fully"--that they choose to partner themselves to each other, for good or ill, in sickness and in health, and come what may, they then have an emotional obligation to support each other according to those terms. I'm just not so certain that people generally understand the moral weight of these terms. Plus, there's a slippery slope involved here; at what point do these emotional obligations become void and null? What despicable act or crime must one partner commit before the other starts to feel that the moral thing to do is to terminate the relationship? This, everyone will have a particular answer to. There's no fixed line. My point is: does crossdressing constitute such a line? Does breach of trust? Major initial dishonesty?

You started a good thread, here, Jade. I love thought-provoking stuff like this. As usual, finding the right answer isn't half as important as asking the right questions.

Love,
CJ

[TerriLynn]

A very thought provoking thread here Jade.

As Kimberly said, we are all victims, to a lesser or greater degree, of something that happens to us each day. But how we change and adapt to these happenings defines us as a person, and as a person, we all change a little almost every day.

I can look back and see, over the years, how just my wife Mary and I have changed since we began dating in high school (and that is a LONG time ago). With the exception of my 7 years in the Army, we have been constant companions since the age of 15 (33 yrs now), and very few things have remained constant in ourselves, but have constantly changed and evolved to make us what we are today.

Has it all been rosey and sweet? Not by a long shot. We both have said and done things that caused friction in what we have built together. Several years ago, i found out she had had an affair with another man. WOW. That just blew me away, and I felt I was THE victim of all time. Hurt, jealousy, and even a little hate surfaced in me from that revelation. But we stayed together, changed yes, for the stronger, yes again. But there is always that little seed of doubt there, no matter how I have come to terms with it, and it still hurts to think of it.

Now, on the other hand, it has made me realize how she felt when learning of my crossdressing. I used to correspond with an SO in a group a while back, and she told me that when she found out "It was like he was having an affair with a woman that just won't go away.". I know several of us here have heard that statement before, or something close to it.

So, I think that yes, we are all victims, to different degrees, of things we cannot control. But, it is all in how we react and change and evolve to those circumstances that will define us as a person, and shapes our future lives, for ourselves and the others we hold close through our lives.

Circumstances always give us choices, just which way to go from that point is what determines what happens next.

Terrilynn

[Ian]

I wish you love and peace jade

[Ann Stef]

Some people are self-imposed victums. Some ladies want their husbands to be all male hormones. Others will put up with jusrt a little of fememinity. A CD would express more of the female mode. Many women don't know, a CD can be an advantage in a relationship with a knowledge and caring of only a woman can giove.

[DanteCarrie (FTM)]

I'm definetly not going to be one who ever sees the SO as the victim. In fact I'm probably going to be quite ruthless about this as one raised liberally and dedicated to rational thinking.

I am always shocked that SOs are surprised or upset about their partner's CDing honestly I think they have no right to be. yeah thats right 0%!

why? because its illogical. clothing doesn't change a person and wait a sec society invented clothing, its not natural, its completely nutty to think clothes have a gender.they don't. thats like saying pink is for girls. its old fashioned illogic.

also these women seem really sexist yet women are always claiming they want respect. they are sexist to want their men to be all a certain kind of trait that they deem masculine. calling certain traits masculine or feminine is sexist in itself. i mean how would they like it if they were told they can't wear trousers because its for men....hmm i think they'd be outraged.

The only way a SO is a victim is because of lies. a partner should always be honest thats for surebut apart from that I think if they are angry or upset with their lover just for CDing then frankly they aren't good enough for them and it can't be really love.

if my partner started wearing women's clothes I wouldnn't bat an eyelid.

I agree so much that love shouldn't be so dispossible.

[Kimberly Kael]

I'm definetly not going to be one who ever sees the SO as the victim.

Victim? No, I don't think it rises to that level - but I do understand how it can come as quite the unwelcome surprise.

In fact I'm probably going to be quite ruthless about this as one raised liberally and dedicated to rational thinking.

The problem is that attraction is rarely the result of rational thinking. I do think it can be influenced more than we normally acknowledge, but there are definitely components of attraction that are pretty darned irrational. The question is just how far it's reasonable to expect someone to bend.

clothing doesn't change a person

Do you mean that you've never been attracted to someone in part because of the way they dress? Really? I will agree that the person wearing the clothes doesn't see the difference. They're still the same "them" with or without the clothes. The problem is that the only way anyone else gets a sense of who we are is through how we present ourselves. When our presentation changes, their perception changes.

[DanteCarrie (FTM)]

yes i agree that sexual attraction is very subjective but you must admit that the way many SOs react to crossdressing lovers isn't simply an issue of oh ok but I'd rather when we are getting sexual that you dress the way that appeals to my orientation.

I think when the poster says victim they mean in that SO act distraught as if crossdressing is wrong or some attack on them they can react as prejudicly as homosexuality used to be perceived. Their reaction you must also admit is highly sexist and often hypocritical because of this.
subjective pleasures are perfectly in accordance with logic as they don't normally have vast negative repucussions or harm emotional or otherwise to others but illogical prejudice does and I'm not sure that the extreme reaction some SOs have is anything to do with subjective attraction because then their reaction would be mild disappointment.


am i of course attracted by garments. my partner's garments are extremely plain and do not arouse me but since most of our sexual exploits involve nudity its hardly an issue as I am attracted to the body. many clothes turn me on leather for example but I'm in not turned on by the majority of my lover's clothes. so really clothing doesn't matter or change personality or sex drive really. I would still be attracted if my partner wore entirely different attire.