Questions for GG/SO Partners

[Eileen (SO)]

Still being fairly new to the forum type atmosphere, personally, I'd like to have more questions asked of us partners. Not only to provide helpful insight, it helps me to understand the wide breadth of Cd/Tg issues. We learn and grow from each other.

Eileen

[Kelly]

Speaking of growing and learning from each other. I think it is OK or the GG/SO's in the crowed to use this venue to ask some questions. Hearing a question, posed from another perspective, is often illuminating in itself.

Kelly.

[Eileen (SO)]

OK Kelly,

I understand a young man feeling guilty or ashamed of his desires to wear female clothing, and hiding those desires from a wife, never knowing her level of acceptance. Where we are as a couple and how we got to this point is not important for this post. Except to say that for the first time in his life, he can openly talk about his desires with someone that knows him intimately, his family doesn't know.
He normally dresses blue collar, work a day guy like. That's part of my attraction to him, a man that fixes things himself, self reliant and confidant. His alter self, while not silk and lace, is very lady like. As much opposite for one body to do so.
Certain times, he'll go for weeks without needing to dress. Other times, it's nearly every day. He does not underdress, it's all one way or the other.

Once, I bought him a men's silk shirt, he didn't like it because it made him feel 'gay'. As a woman out with friends, he has befriended gay men. As a man, he doesn't want to dress like one.

Is this conflict of opposites common? No wonder it's confusing, for both the guy and his spouse.

Eileen

[Davita]

Not speaking for Kelly or the rest of the community...

I simply don't want men's clothes that look feminine nor do I particularly want women's clothes that look male. I also don't care to be androynous if I can help it. I'm a girly girl not a girly man. I'm not a manly girl. Granted in the current fashions, there is some overlappinng of colors and materials; you could say there are some similarities in the styles between the men's and women's fashion. Okay so I sneak a lot of women's apparel into my male world, but only because I can. And I like it that it's my girl jeans or my pretty trouser socks I like those fem touches to help me get through the drab world.

Hummm... did I answer the question? Not sure but I think, yeah there is that conflict of opposites with me.

[Eileen (SO)]

Davita,

Your answer is close to my husband's views, it's all one way or the other. Wearing skirts no matter how cold it is, is preferable because men would never wear them, or most sane women. In that respect, cross dressing is different than trans gendered. TG's are not ever comfortable dressed as male. Or, am I over simplifying definitions?

Eileen

[Ginny Jones]

Eileen - I have certainly noticed this conflict of opposites. The more I became Ginny, the harder it became to commit to the things I had previously done as a male. For example - I am pretty good at building things and I have bought a house that needs renovation. Doing that work has been increasingly difficult for me because it detracts from Ginny.

Now I know that isn't true - but that's how it feels. Over the last year I have worked hard to find more of a balance. What I am learning is that we apply gender to activity - women sew and cook, and men knock walls down and fit kitchen units! Actually, the more I think about that, the more I don't want to subscribe to that belief system - both in terms of others and myself.

My partner talks about plastering, fitting her own kitchen, etc and whilst my impulse is a "gendered" one - I am finding that increasingly I celebrate this stuff! These responses are so ingrained in us! The men in my family have all been carpenters and stonemasons back as far as we can trace them (15th century) - it's in my families DNA! That said, my sister is far better at decorating than I am, my daughter plays football better than I ever did and I work as a Psychiatric nurse / Psychotherapist - sitting around talking about relationships and feelings all day! So something is changing!

Hugs Ginny

[Carol Ann]

Ginny,
Oh I'm not sure about that as I still have my projects around the house and outside. Hon I just slip into a pair of my Jordache jeans or pettle pusher in the summer with a nice top pair of flats or tennie and just go about what I need to do.

Now I will admit I still love my dresses or skirts but there are times you need to go with the proper attire for the days work inside or out.

[Paulette]

HI Eileen, and hello allayouse,

Yes, I think that's a solid distinction. Those on the trans path tend to feel mildly to strongly uncomfortable when wearing the "wrong" clothes - at least that's my reading here and elsewhere. CDs, not so much, and in my case not at all. I enjoy underdressing. A camisole or a slip and panties under my jeans and shirt often makes my day. (Wife suggests tap pants. We'll see.) And I so love making love to her wearing sliky things.

But during the day I always wear guy clothes - sometimes a dress around the house, but always guy's outerwear clothes outside the house. Feels quite natural and doesn't bother me at all. And while I can go en femme outside, for Halloween or a Rocky Horror show (Priscilla Q-of-the-D?) or even next year's Mardi Gras, that's all I feel comfortable with.

So, from my CD-path point of view, yes, I agree.

Another possible distinction between gender transitioners and in-place CDers is age-at-discovery. I was pretty much raised among women (my mother, her two sisters and my father's sister) until age five, and never felt the urge to dress until long after being adopted by my stepfather and acquiring a passel of boy playmates, at age twelve. Then, it was compulsive and obsessive and got me in a lot of trouble until I learned to suppress it, and then learned to be much sneakier about it.

My first two wives had great difficulty with it, so I continued to hide for the next 45 years. Would I have continued to hide and dress secretly had my mother and aunts dressed me and helped me find and enjoy myself en femme? Perhaps so, but at 73, I'll never know. I just feel that it would have been wonderful, but things didn't roll out that way.

I know that some feel that the difference between a MTF trans and a CD is as the joke says, "about two years." I don't agree, but that's just speaking for myself. At this point I'd also add the MHB comment that "When you've met one CD, you've met one CD," But I feel that all people are unique, and it's only the pressures of society that make us conform to this silly binary code of roles and appearances and attractions. (Octal makes much more sense, anyway.)

For now - and I know things change (but this feels so right!) - I'm perfectly happy being who I am, with a (gg)wife who delights in my CD and considers it a definite benefit, and not a bug.

Live long, enjoy each other in all possible ways, and prosper!

[Eileen (SO)]

No one can truly understand another persons feelings, we have a hard enough time understanding ourselves. While I'll never quite get the driving force that is behind the need to CD, (who does?) accepting that it exists and can't be changed was a major hurdle. After all this time, I'm more content being the wife of a CD, than the ex wife that refused to accept.
As long as there are limitations that we both can live with, his dressing does no harm to our relationship and actually has made us closer.

Eileen

[Anita]

Hi Eileen--

As long as there are limitations that we both can live with, his dressing does no harm to our relationship and actually has made us closer.

As always, I like hearing the success stories. It can be comfortable for everyone if the CDer can find a level of dressing that works for them long-term, with only small adjustments here and there.

Like Ginny, I find that if I present my gal self to the world, I find it harder to do my usual male activities. It's a distraction to me. I have no problem talking with people in stores, or running the trans support group. Those are activities that involve interacting with people.

My male activity is usual physical labor or solitary stuff like working on taxes, and my female identity doesn't enhance those experiences at all. A big part of that is that wigs and breast forms are not practical for my kind of work, and unlike a trans woman, my woman-ID is dependent on these items.

I also don't like blurring gender lines, personally. I'll wear pants as a woman, but that's as far as it goes. I like gender-specific shoes, not sneakers or track shoes.

[Kelly]

Alright Eileen,

Events allowed me to think about your post off line for a few days. I think your first statement and final question are related.

If one is silly enough or brave enough (I don't know which) to overcome the feeling of guilt or shame of wanting to wear female clothing and actually do it, then he has overcome constraints upon his life.

Constraints, self-imposed, imposed by mom & dad in childhood, or imposed by pears starting from the first play date. These may be constraints; but they define a way of life, a way to get along by going along. How to fit in. The bro-code.

So, if he is going to put on a wig, abuse his ankles, wear something with a hem, goop up his face, and lose visual contact with his toes, then, believe me, the heaviest of the constraints no longer exist. There gone; aren't real; na-da.

All other constraints are relatively trivial. It is ok to admit your cold. Talk openly, even with someone you just met. Pick up a hostess gift. Cry. It is ok to befriend a gay guy; even though in real life the thought of a being confused as one is an anathema.

Crossing the gender barrier male constraints are discarded and female constraints assumed; a whole new world is open to explore. It can be exciting, wonderful, a whole lot of fun.

Kelly

[Anita]

Kelly wrote:

If one is silly enough or brave enough (I don't know which) to overcome the feeling of guilt or shame of wanting to wear female clothing and actually do it, then he has overcome constraints upon his life...
All other constraints are relatively trivial...
Crossing the gender barrier male constraints are discarded and female constraints assumed; a whole new world is open to explore. It can be exciting, wonderful, a whole lot of fun.

Kelly, this is a big deal, and I'd forgotten about it. Presenting as a woman, you know that you're breaking through certain barriers. What surprised me is that it also showed me constraints that I wasn't aware of at all. I won freedoms that I had forgotten existed. My biggest example is that my gal-self instantly began to touch people spontaneously, and it was OK! People weren't scared of me, they didn't shrink back, and I never had to think, "Is this alright?" I could just do it.

That had NEVER been a possibility for the type of guy I was and am--I knew people were scared of me, and I kept my distance, from age 11 on. I knew the gender rules as they applied to me. There was no way around it--I couldn't will myself into being a different kind of man. But I could bypass being a man entirely, which was a solution that is never talked about in any self-help book. (unless it's written for trans people to begin with.)

[Noeleena]

Hi.
This would in many aspects more to do with trans or dresser's so i did not have that conflict .

my detail was i ....totaly hated male clothes and what they represented, plus in our case Mom and i ,
as a kid had i known i would have worn a kilt, never was able to find our clans colours, till last year,
i was Millitay and proud to wear my unifom im in 3 bands and we are uniformed, more in style of mens unifom and i look quite smart as iv been told and proud to wear that, with our other band same uniform ill wear my skirt, instead of trousers,

Over the years 20 all iv worn is basicly skirts and tops all female , and when i do my work any thing related or other ill wear shorts and bib overalls i dont have of my own any male clothes, If i have to wear trousers = uniform = thats okay and a tie, did hate them as well with a reason for that,

Look im part of our bands so ill be part of them and wear our uniform and with pride .

other wise no i wont so much as touch mens clothes, im not male so dont understand your thinking as to as a male you wont wear womens clothes mixed with male clothes it seems to me to be one or the other, thats a conflict i dont understand ,

if it came to the crunch i really dont give a toss what i wear because clothes dont have much meaning to me apart from my detail of one man and what happened to Mom and i. that's a Psychological Emotional and Phyisical scared for life detail.

I try to understand your detail

Paulette,

You talk about conforming to socitys code of this is what males wear and do and this is what female wear and do.

i have no restrants for or in ether, to with in reason of my body being female yet i have a masculine side as well all part and parcile of who i am. no conflict there and my many friends and members of our groups over 1000 dont have an issue ether, so if this is socity then i have broken them in , too who i am what i do in regards to all aspects of life, yes i dont fit a male or female mold its totaly shatered bustered, they work with me we get on they wont me to be part of what ...we...do.

how the hell do you join male and female together. how does it work. im liveing prove it does, nothing to do with clothes its about who the person is this is were it starts, yet im a female, they know im female yet have this masculine side to me funny as many of them like that part of me because theres detail they need me to do. and because of that they have this woman and dont have to rely on another male,

Its when you look at the whole person i belive there is acceptance for all regardless of our selfs getting in the way and for some have issues of - i cant fit in or be accepted -.. dare i say it not now for my self = we put the restrictions on our selfs, thats what i see,

...noeleena...

[Tasi]

Unless you're in that smaller group that believes you were born in the wrong body, I don't know how you bypass being a man. Like most cross-dressers, I shy away from any semblance of male clothing when dressed although I have been known to wear womans pants when my spouse put together an outfit for me that was very feminine. I tend more towards that thinking of being dual-gendered so I'm quite comfortable acting the part for which I am dressed. I think part of the fear comes from thinking that you are alone, a situation that changed with the internet.. Even the fear of not passing becomes less with the greater positive exposure that transgenders have in the news today (yes, there's still lots of bad) Unfortunately it's the luck of the draw whether you have an accepting/tolerant wife or not as many, if not still most, have difficulty with our cross-dressing and all the good reasons in the world won't change that. Of the over 100 ladies on our TG Woman Yahoo group, only one has a truly accepting spouse and it wasn't that way until recently

[Amanda M]

Eileen - know that this is an old thread, but somehow, I have missed it up until now. What a breath of fresh air to meet someone with your understanding. Don't get me wrong, my SO is more than accepting.

You wanted some questions - so here are a couple. How do you relate to your SO when he/she is dressed. Is she still 'him' but in a skirt, or is she 'she' to you. Or does it matter to you?

Do you feel that she is around, she treats you differently, and if she does, what are your thoughts about that?

Take care,
Amanda