Restroom Etiquette

[Heather W]

I agree with Emma. That would be the last time that establishment got money from me and I would take to social media and complain. The power of Facebook pages is amazing.

[Eileen (SO)]

Unless a wife was uncomfortable in the Ladies, I can't see the point of a man insisting that Penelope use the Men's, which would be more uncomfortable for everyone. Regardless of local laws, management missed the boat on this one.
Properly asked, would this gentleman prefer that Penelope use a stall next to him, or relieve herself in the Ladies?
Local pubs/bars have a varied clientele. If one person causes a problem that no one else has an issue with, they are the problem.

Eileen

[Heather W]

One thing I don't think any of us has thought about is was this really "an ignorant male dinosaur" complaining just to hear his own voice or was it possible he had ulterior motives to get Penelope into the men's room? The male of species is not always as dumb as we give him credit for.

[Diana Michelle]

Interesting thoughts Heather. I never thought about it but you may have a point whether the whiner is a a potential bully or assaulter of a closet tranny chaser.

[Ms. Erin]

I always use the ladies room in the proper lady way.

Having said that, what I really wanted to add is that for our transgender female to male (F2M) friends, they do make a device for the guys that allows them to pee standing up in front. Just like cis man. I don't know the name or how it works, but that's what I have heard in our therapy group meetings.

[Eileen (SO)]

I don't think that Penelope's complainer had ulterior motives, merely one of those people that spout off on things that really don't concern them. Men and women are equally guilty, making an a** of themselves when no one else cares about their perceived problem. If some woman or effeminate man entered the Men's, why should I, or any other women, be concerned? Oh sure, we may talk about it, but not demand management get involved unless someone's safety is an issue. Who knows how many CD's or TG's I've shared facilities with and either didn't notice or didn't care.

Hubby did relate one story. A once a month meeting at a main stream bar, some women complained about the 'girls' sharing the Ladies Room. Not so much about nature's call answered, some hung around for conversations. Hearing husky male voices in the Ladies was more disconcerting than sitting in the next stall.

Ms. Erin, I would call that device a 'funnel'. Every time I think I've got all this TG stuff sorted out, one of you throws me off. Just as sitting to pee is lady like, standing up is man like. I just never thought that was a real need. Does seem messy though.

Eileen

[Penelope Carol]

Eileen has got it right, as it wasn't the first time that man had made a fuss over the issue although on the other occasion the manager wasn't there for him to complain to. The only women present that night were two friends of mine, who shouted him down. He made some comment on checking the law. He would have been disappointed; the law in the UK, as far as public facilities are concerned, allows anyone to use either facility provided it is for its correct purpose - so no having sex or injecting drugs! I'm not fully conversant with anti-discrimination laws but as regards privately owned facilities the management might have more say in the matter. I know there has recently been debate about the subject and that conservative elements in the US and Canada have tried to push through laws that would require people always to use the restroom designated to their assigned gender at birth. I can well imagine that such a law would be very difficult to enforce. Supposing I put a "Ladies" sign on the bathroom door in my own home - would I then be legally barred from entering it?

[Eileen (SO)]

Offering my full opinions on bathroom laws would put this thread in Hot Topics. Briefly though, any laws only affect publicly funded institutions, not private businesses. Nobody is checking your birth certificate or DNA to go potty. Women also have rights in who enters their area.

Keeping on the etiquette subject, you'll find acceptance in the Lady's if you look and act the part. There will be exceptions now and then, but women tend to be more tolerant than men on this issue. Penelope had two women friends on her side. Who uses the Lady's room is not a man's business.

Eileen

[Trudy]

As someone who has been "out" since the late 70's I have had used the women's restroom many times. In all my times I have never had what I would call a totally negative experience. Sure I have heard some under the breath comments as well as more than a few evil eyes, especially in the earlier days but I have never been in a position of feeling threatened. The trick is to understand why you are there.Ddo your business and if it is not too crowded a quick check of the hair and make up in the mirror and be on your way. If you want to socialize with your girlfriends do it at the table or your seat or the hallway. I could care less what the alleged "laws" say if I am en femme, which is probably 95% of my life now, I am going to use the ladies. If some over zealous police officer feels the need to make an issue of it, so be it. I have a good lawyer!

[Amanda R]

There seems to be one thing missing from this discussion and it is basic common sense. I was 15 when I came out to my mother about my desire to be a girl. I am not going tp go into deep details here about all of that but after she finally accepted she and my sister did a lot of "training" on me to in essence help unlearn my 15 plus of years of being a boy and teach me to be a girl. It was about a year and a half before they were satisfied I accepted the conditioning and acting like a girl became second nature to me. As a reward Mom took us on a vacation to Mackinac Island. We stayed on the mainland but I remember that first day we took the ferry over to the island for a day of sightseeing and doing the touristy things people do there. It was a warm summer day and we all wore sundresses, partly as Mom felt a dress constantly reinforced my being a girl better than jeans or shorts would to me. She and my sister wore sundresses as well so I didn't look out of place.

As I said it was a warm summer day so we had gotten some lemonade to drink as we roamed the shops and after a while nature called so we set out in search of a public facility. When we got there I paused for a second, remember this was one of my early forays into public. Mom asked me what was wrong and I pointed at the sign that read "Ladies" and told her I couldn't go in there. She looked me squarely in the eyes and pointed at the Men>s room and asked if I was intending on going in there, hiking up my dress and pulling it out and going to the bathroom? It only took me a second to realize what I was going to do so I followed her and my sister in, found a stall and did my business.

The issue seems to be raised here is always about the discomfort of others as to which what restroom to use. What about my or your discomfort? Certainly no one can feel comfortable dressed in a skirt and going into the men's room if your intent is answering nature's call. If one is presenting as a male use the men's room but if you are presenting as a female go to the powder room!

[Eileen (SO)]

You have a wise mother and sister, Amanda. Bottom line (no pun intended) seems that when answering nature's call, don't make others uncomfortable.

Eileen

[SilverLady(SO)]

The issue seems to be raised here is always about the discomfort of others as to which what restroom to use. What about my or your discomfort? Certainly no one can feel comfortable dressed in a skirt and going into the men's room if your intent is answering nature's call. If one is presenting as a male use the men's room but if you are presenting as a female go to the powder room!

You are absolutely correct! One should also remember that when using the women's restroom it is *always* FEET FORWARD, meaning you should be sitting down to do your 'business' because ladies never stand to pee.

And yes, that means even in the privacy of your own home; if you're going to be 'dressed' then you need to BE it the whole way through.


- SL

[Amanda R]

Seat down and feet forward was just one of the many things that were drummed into me by Mom and my sister so well to the point that back then even when I was trying to pull off the male masquerade I would sit. Being 2 years post op it is my only way now.

[Sarah Rene]

I remember the first time I used the Ladies room. I was 10 years old and my sister and I were shopping at the mall when nature called. Rachel went with me just to make sure things went well and I remember just before we went in she leaned and whispered in my ear, "Girls sit." I knew that but it was good to have that reassurance. As it turned out the restroom was empty except for the two of us so we did our business, washed our hands, and left.

I have to agree with Amanda in one should not make themselves uncomfortable with the caveat that you should not upset anyone else either. Remember why you went into the rest room and take care of that. If it is empty and you want to touch up your make up go right ahead but if it is busy just be on your way! Yes girls you have rights but so do us women! There is a happy medium out there and if the extremes on both sides of the question would just go about their own business we can find that middle ground.

[Krista]

I pee sitting down even when I'm in my boy clothes (still always wear panties, though)... ...inside, I'm still a woman - and I prefer to act like one...