Tri-ess

[Wesley]

My name is Diana with an A not Diane. Enough said there!

I sincerely beg your pardon, I assure you it was unintended. Diana it is.

Now let us speak to the 9 year old who committed suicide and the poor mother who you seem to want to drag into this discussion. . . Please find another way to attempt to make your point and let this poor woman grieve in peace and hopefully some day put her life back together and go forward.

I am going to speak frankly here. There is a reason that I addressed the matter in the first place and it relates directly to my salient point. Lack of infomation. The child, apparently had no resource whatsoever to consult with, and when he did confide to his mother, mom herself stated that he came out to her in the car as "gay." There is no evidence to support that he was gay, but other comments did belie the fact that he found comfort in wearing dresses. Mom apparently did not know the difference between gender exploration and being gay, nor did she apparently have a heart to heart with the child to tell him that sharing the idea with classmates might not be a good idea. As we all know, children and adolescents can be very cruel. They were in this case. Sorry, I find it difficult to believe that mom could not foresee that consequence. WORSE, when the children did turn to cruel taunts she failed to contact the school, pull him out of school or address the issue over the course of FOUR DAYS.

She apparently made no effort to contact a counselor, or anyone else that could help. Had someone truly understood the problem from the outset, this tragedy could have been avoided.

Can a 9 year old really make a decision they are gay or TG? IMO no but I am not a trained professional. I don't believe at that age they can fully grasp of the concept of gay versus straight or TG versus cisgender at that age but that is just an opinion. This is a tough issue for an adult to deal with let alone a child. How do we address this problem? I have no idea without violating the right of Freedom of Speech but I am open to suggestions here.

You talk about how this 9 year old said he was gay and liked to wear dresses and ask if the mother had a talk with him or even understood the differences? I ask does it matter?

Yeah, it matters. It matters in this case as there was no father present to say WAIT A MINUTE SON. . . You might want to keep that to yourself until you understand what it all means. Just because you do something today does not mean that is set in stone for the rest of your life. You also need to know that if you tell your classmates you are "Gay" many of the kids are going to be very cruel to you and treat you badly. This is one of those basic life lessons that single mom was not able to deliver. (No, I am not ragging on her for that. But really, who among us has no clue that young boys can be real A##holes.) It matters because it apparently never occured to mom either.

WE ARE WAY OFF TRACK HERE DIANA. This is incidental to the issue at hand

Couple of observations here. You say even if a child shows a tendency to crossdress most parents could not or would not take them to a therapist like they were the same. When I went to school could and would had two totally different meanings, which did you mean or was it both? You have stumbled on a major issue though. It is just a phase he is going through or hide it away in the closet or close our eyes to it and it will go away, right? That is the reaction of many parents.

What I am alluding to, it that for a great many parents, the ability to take a child for counseling is very limited. They don't have the information, and in many cases do not believe they could afford it. Additionally, a number parents are suspicious of mental health professionals. All in all, many reasons why parents would not take a child for counseling. When my mother discovered a bra and panties hidden in my bedroom in 8th grade, she left them on the table for me to find when I came home. When SHE got home She asked me about it and told me it was not acceptable. That was the end of it. My father told me many years later that she had told him, but he had not thought about it. At least they gave me a copy of *Everything you always wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask, by Dr. David Reuben. I knew instinctively however that telling classmates was not a viable strategy.

Please don't try to correlate information overload with the wannabe trying everything to prove they are TG because they are obsessed with wearing a dress. Yes many fall prey to the Pink Fog but that does not make them TG just yet another individual incapable of separating fantasy with fact. We all have a free will and capable of formulating our own beliefs. Sadly too many prefer to be sheep and follow rather than lead or stand up and say no. You know the type I am referring to here, we all know someone like that.

Well and good in theory. But in the previous paragraph, you explained how a best case scenario worked out. But that is not reality for most young men and boys who discover a predilection for feminine finary. Most fall in that category where parents don't go for counselling and rarely know those answers themselves. So what are they to do? I freely admit, I don't have answers.

As for this being a TG forum rather than "Crossdressers Haven" where are the CDs? Their posts? Their concerns.? Their questions? I have been a member for about 4 years now and I can remember early on there would be a number of new posts and responses on wide ranging subjects almost daily and the lively discussions that ensued. Now there can be days between new posts. The question now becomes why?

Hopefully you can see through my reminiscing how far we have come. Now there are mainstream places a girl can go and feel safe and even welcome. . . . These were all only available in the past through whispered word of mouth or support groups like Tri Ess and in the early days of the net a few sites like here. That IMO is the primary reason for the decline of Tri Ess, CD support groups in general, and many websites such as Crossdressers Haven.

And that may be the reality of the situation. There is less stigma attached today, but this is still not a world that is universally accepting. As I noted in a much earlier post, I suspect there are many heterosexual crossdressers who would like the support of other heterosexual crossdressers. Such groups are exceedingly rare.

. . . as I have said before there is a lot of bad and even misinformation out there and no way for many to know the difference. A little knowledge is more dangerous many times than none at all. Next there is a comforting reassurance in a face to face conversation and maybe that hug when we are down that will never come from a text or video chat. Another issue is with the proliferation of online information sites and vendors also comes the onslaught of snake oil salespeople and con men offering everything from overpriced clothes to support to feminizing products. I am not saying all are like this but they are out there and admit it or not all of you know they are and can possibly name a few.

. . . Wesley you feel there is a need for support groups targeted at the heterosexual CD and I agree with you. My question to you though is what have you done personally to bring that from thought to reality? Bemoaning bygone days, trying to place blame, and sitting back trying to shoot holes in other's arguments accomplishes nothing. Actions speaks louder than words!

I cannot argue that one bit. In my case, the threshold for forming a group is knowing there are at least a few other like minded individuals within a reasonable distance. People I can sit down and have lunch or dinner with and discuss the issue of forming a viable group in this area. Forgive the analogy, but I feel like i am standing alone in the middle of an empty field performing some obtuse act, while a few people stand a comfortable distance pointing asking "What's wrong with that fool?" I am close to walking away from the idea as there does not seem to be anyone else in a 50 mile radius even remotely interested. If anyone asks me, "Can you be a heterosexual crossdresser? My answer is tending towards, "I used to think so, But there is no one like that around here."

I recognize there is only so much I can do as a human being. If everyone in the area insists they are Transexual, who am I to tell them they otherwise? Why keep bashing my head into the wall?

I appreciate the positive thoughts and engaging conversation, but as noted, despite two years of looking at restarting a heterosexual crossdressing group and not a single supporter in the area, there is nothing more I can do if I can't even find another person willing to commit. I am content with my own crossdressing and I am just don't see any advantage to concerning myself with it anymore.

[Wesley]

I am out on this one. In theory being able to meet others like myself in person sounds good but we are a very diverse lot...diverse in who we are in this community....diverse socio-economically....politically....morally....in our sexuality....substance use or not....age too! I think it would be very stressful to drive somewhere then get out of the car and enter the building not knowing what the hell I am in for!

Anne,
When I first wanted to attend, I had to send an email to the group. I soon received a response, and we set up a meeting wherein I met with three members of the group whose purpose was to discern if I was suitable for the group, (and not intent on co opting the group.) I met with them publicly, in drab. (I was underdressed and wearing keds). We sat and talked for about 30 to 45 minutes, wherein they asked me questions, and told me about the group.

When I attended the first meeting, I took my wife, and dressed essentially in drab mode. We were introduced to the group and roughly a 45 minute meeting occurred, with a talk from a fashion consultant. The meeting happened at a local hotel with meeting facilities and we both felt very comfortable. To coin a phrase, "A good time was had by all."

For me, at that time, being in a room with roughly 20 other people who were heterosexual crossdressers was quite empowering. For the first time, I was actually around other people who were crossdressing and comfortable doing so in public. Here is a list of chapters that used to exist.


Albany NY
Ardmore, OK
Astoria, OR
Atlanta, Ga
Austin Tx
Baltimore MD
Buffalo, NY
Central Michigan (Lansing)
Charlotte NC
Chicago, Ill
Dallas/Fort Worth Tx
Denver CO
Eureka, CA
Fort Myers, Fl
Fresno, CA
Gouldsboro, PA
Grants Pass, OR
Greensboro/Winston Salem NC
Houston TX
Las Vegas NV
Los Angeles Ca
New York, NY
Miami FL
Minneapolis, MN
Moscow ID
Nashville, TN
Oklahoma City, Ok
Orlando, FL
Phoenix, AZ
Reno/Carson City NV
Quebec City PQ
Raleigh/Durham NC
Richmond VA
Santa Cruz/Monterrey CA
Springfield MO
Trenton NJ
Tucson AZ
Wausau WI
Wilmington DE


Today, there are chapters in just 10 states.

[Giselle]

wish we had a tri-ess chapter in the Toronto area

[Diana Michelle]

Apology accepted on the name. It is a pet peeve of mine and I only brought it up as our name is perhaps the only thing we can truly call our own regardless of how we came by it.

Wesley I am not sure where you want to go with the 9 year old child other than to place blame on the mother. You are asking questions she is going to ask herself probably every day for the rest of her life. Your desire to drag her into the town square for a public stoning is the thought process of a small minded, egotistical dictator wannabe and as I said I find personally disgusting and am sure others do as well. As for your comment of "It matters in this case as there was no father present to say WAIT A MINUTE SON. . .". Well Honey that is totally mind boggling in current times and leaves me at a total loss. I want you to take a look at the calendar and see this is 2018, not not 1918! Many children of both genders grow up in single parent families of both genders and are well adjusted members of society. The only term that comes to mind here that is repeatable in mixed company is sexist. Stop floundering in the water and accept the life preserver I am throwing you here.

I have spoken of Amanda and I still stay in touch with her as I do all my girls however unlike with others I am still friends with her mother and Anne and I get together several times a year. I know for a fact it took her several weeks of thought and hand wringing before she got in touch with the local LGBT organization, a bit before someone talked to me and then another week or so before Anne and I could get together for that first time. Then it was a week or so before she contacted me to take me up on my offer to talk with Amanda and a yet another time lapse before schedules allowed. Yes spontaneous combustion does happen but life doesn't work that way. It takes time for the stars to align so to harp on it being a whole 4 days is child like. For whatever reason the mother did not see the urgency of this and she has to live with that for the rest of her life. It is no different than someone with an ache or pain or whatever and fluffs it off as just a pulled muscle or getting old and delays seeking professional help until it is too late. Do they deserve the public stoning too?

If placing blame is your slant here at least place it where it belongs, society. The sad fact we have allowed the hate mongering bigots a voice and not enough people have the cajones to stand up say No, You are wrong! The sad fact we shuffle off to the shadows that which makes us uncomfortable to confront. The sad fact we don't have the conversations we should be having rather preferring to point fingers. The sad fact we find it easier to stereotype and place labels rather seeing all as individuals with the right to live their lives as they desire obviously within basic morals and yes among those basic morals are sexual and gender orientation. The sad fact some see rights as the privilege of those only like them. Need I go on? Yes perhaps the mother bears a certain level of responsibility but no more nor no less than each and every one of us does.

You do raise the stigma associated with mental health care and it is very valid. Full disclosure here I have seen a therapist several times in my life, obviously once for gender issues and the other two to help me deal with the grief from the loss of people very close to me. The fact of the matter is it is not the crazy that seek help but rather the sane and we need to make that part of the conversation both public and private. I don't know if you have ever known anyone with an addiction however the first thing you learn is you cannot help someone until they are ready to be helped. Perhaps the mother here did not think she needed help and the blame for that belongs on all of us for not showing her and others that there is help and hope out there to both her and her child.

Now let us return once again to the original basis for this thread, Tri Ess and support groups aimed solely at the needs of the heterosexual crossdresser. However before we do I want to pose a hypothetical situation.

There is a bakery in the town you live in that makes the best ever chocolate chip cookies. I am talking even better than Grandma's and even Grandma says so. You wake up one morning and you absolutely have to have one of those cookies or you are just going to die. Now this bakery is on the other side of town and to get there you have to cross the river that divides town. No problem as there is the bridge so off you go. Now you get to the bridge and for whatever reason it is closed and looking out you see open space in the middle where the bridge should be. You can see that bakery from where you now stand, even the wind is blowing in the right direction and you can smell those delicious cookies as they bake in the oven. So close, yet so far.

As I see it you have two choices now. You can go home to sulk and pout like a 4 year old or you can find another way to get to the bakery. I don't know about you but right now for me it is no longer a case of I want that cookie but I now NEED that cookie. Knowing myself I would buy a boat to get across the river to get that cookie if that were the only way available. What about the rest of you?

I think you get that little analogy. You talk of what you have tried so far but the bridge is still not there so where do you go? The journey of life is scattered throughout with potholes, land mines, detours and even "Bridge Out" signs. Wesley I am certain you have encountered at least a few in your journey, I have, and I surmise everyone else here have as well. I didn't let them stop me and I know many others who haven't either, The choice is yours.

[Annie]

I understood that Tri-ess had a very specific target audience. That is they are only interested in heterosexual crossdressers and their partners or spouses. I was not under the impression that membership would be extended to individuals but only to couples. Was I wrong?
This does not appear to be a group for those of us without support of our spouses, partners or SO's. Oh and then there is the heterosexual thing too.

[KimberlyS]

Tri-Ess is for cross dressers without spouses also. TG girls can join a group with the understanding it is a CD group and not a TS group. The groups I dealt with had two or more meetings a month. One for a general meeting and business. Then at least one other time for an out and about in public. One the the groups also had a get together at one of their homes for casual interaction with CDers and spouses. Only the CDers and spouses were allowed to vote and be an officer of the groups.

From my understanding problems often came up when a CDer that was heavily involved and was an officer decided they were going to transition. They had to give up their position and could no longer vote on business.

I still say they are a good group, just have a narrow focus and support. With the greater support in society, there is not as much of a need for Tri-Ess. A big reason to be involved in Tri-Ess is to give the wife someone to talk with. As often the wife does not have anyone to talk with, and if they do talk with someone, that person usually has limited knowledge. The internet has helped with information. But there is as much or more bad information on the internet as there is good information about being transgendered and cross dressing. So wading through the information can be overwhelming. Or if you are like my ex wife, she could only absorb the bad information she came across and would not believe the good information. So being able to talk with other spouses is a very good part of Tri-Ess.

kimberlys cd
joe in a skirt

[Anne Bonny]

Sad that it is that way. My wife loved and saw greater value in me as a person and as her husband...who could not help being this way or having this compelling need to be able to be who I am periodically long as most of the time I continued on appearing as the person she married the greater part of this is over appearance or was in my case as I truly loved my wife.

Things in some kind of overall way are out in the open, acceptance is somewhat improved in some quarters there are more people willing to state we have the right to be who we are as long as we are not harming anyone else. But there still exists very powerful resistance willing to hold the arbitrary conventions at all costs...sad.

I know there are members of our community out there locally but it is a very diverse one (LGBTQ etc...cast an extremely wide net!). Mostly those who's difference is over sexuality...and some who are a mix of gender and homosexuality more than those out there with a variant of gender while being heterosexual (though common to hear the claim that heterosexuals make up the majority of cross dressers). I have no objections but fear I would not find myself accepted. I am not addicted, I am not into tattoos and piercings and being openly provocative in a sexual, violent or counter cultural way, not into S&M, or Age regressive dressing or any of the other. I am neither desperately poor nor fabulously wealthy. I am not illiterate and unskilled but I am not a brain surgeon or rocket scientist. I wonder if I would find any like myself just middle of the road rather mainstream except in my manner of dressing and in who I am inside. Would I find people locally who I would fit in with enough to get together with as friends? Diversity is fine but I suppose we want to share enough in common so that we can become friends as friends share many things in common. hum. Guess I need to look again and see. I do suppose women who are trans who found me ok would be ok I don't know... There is a local bar with I believe such a person and she seems very nice.

[Wesley]

Diana,
I have taken some time to consider the best response to your inquiry.

. . . I am not sure where you want to go with the 9 year old child other than to place blame on the mother. You are asking questions she is going to ask herself probably every day for the rest of her life. Your desire to drag her into the town square for a public stoning is the thought process of a small minded, egotistical dictator wannabe and as I said I find personally disgusting and am sure others do as well.

Like it or not Diana, it is how I feel. You seem to elect to believe that I am in fact, "a small minded, egotistical dictator wannabe."

This is the sort of line that just out and out aggravates me. No other way to say it. Let's not try to understand WHAT I am saying, but let's throw out a few labels and engage in a bit of name calling instead of reasoned debate. My point was multifaceted, but from my perspective the mother did not, or was not able to consider the potential ramifications of her response. I am not denigrating her, but had a father been present (someone who understood that young boys, as well as girls can be very cruel.) Like it or not, not everyone find cause to give nods of acceptance to crossdressers. That some people out there actually take offense and do not hesitate to make their uncomfortableness known. For kids or adults, it is a dangerous world. Hoping and hiding under names like "small minded egotistical dictator. . ." may be comforting to you or others, but it does not change the reality of the world, or make it safe for crossdressers, gays lesbians etc.

Each and every one of us have experienced anxiety in going out dressed, or even underdressed. Why do we feel that anxiety Diana? Because we all know that the world does not universally understand, appreciate or tolerate our behavior. That is not a problem WE have, it is a recognition that our behavior MAY have unpleasant consequences. That 9 year old child had NO CLUE that the world was not the happy friendly place of Mr. Rogers neighborhood. Parents have a responsibility to educate and socialize their children to the dangers of the real world. Do you get my point? Why don't you let your kid go trick or treating alone these days? The risk of being attacked as a transgender is much higher than being kidnapped trick or treating.

As for your comment of "Well Honey that is totally mind boggling in current times and leaves me at a total loss. I want you to take a look at the calendar and see this is 2018, not not 1918! Many children of both genders grow up in single parent families of both genders and are well adjusted members of society. The only term that comes to mind here that is repeatable in mixed company is sexist. Stop floundering in the water and accept the life preserver I am throwing you here.

Your statements belay the fact that you are of the mindset, which believes fathers warning children that crossdressing in public may cause ramifications is a bigger danger, than the children that taunted this child. Or that there are adults who would physically attack or kill someone for crossdressing or being gay. Stating a socialogical FACT is not sextist. Single parent families have higher levels of poverty and pathology than traditional mother and father present families. Rest assured, if I want to make a sexist statement, you will know it.

For whatever reason the mother did not see the urgency of this and she has to live with that for the rest of her life. It is no different than someone with an ache or pain or whatever and fluffs it off as just a pulled muscle or getting old and delays seeking professional help until it is too late. Do they deserve the public stoning too?

Yeah, Diana, the problem here is that I am an intolerant homophobic misogynist bigot. . .No worry about real world consequences.

If placing blame is your slant here at least place it where it belongs, society. The sad fact we have allowed the hate mongering bigots a voice and not enough people have the cajones to stand up say No, You are wrong!

Than please, feel free to go out to a few redneck bars or American Nazi rallies, and while dressed,explain that to them. Did it occur to you that I am responding in this forum for a reason? The reason of this tread was to discuss the Tri-ess organization? That maybe there is something wrong with everyone abandoning the idea of crossdressing and the wholesale adoption of the idea that is is explained by "transgenderism" instead of "crossdressing?" That maybe, society has once again, as it has so often in history, embraced the opposite extreme without adequate evidence?

Now let us return once again to the original basis for this thread, Tri Ess and support groups aimed solely at the needs of the heterosexual crossdresser. However before we do I want to pose a hypothetical situation.

Good idea.

There is a bakery in the town you live in . . .

As I see it you have two choices now. You can go home to sulk and pout like a 4 year old or you can find another way to get to the bakery. I don't know about you but right now for me it is no longer a case of I want that cookie but I now NEED that cookie. Knowing myself I would buy a boat to get across the river to get that cookie if that were the only way available. What about the rest of you?

Bad analogy. In the same way I have the same choice of driving to a further bridge, I also have the choice of how to handle my issue. But I have made peace with my situation as a crossdresser. What about the 18-35 year old crossdresser just coming to terms with the issue as an adult, or someone getting married? Are their needs going to be best served by a TRANSGENDER group? Who among us is qualified to make that decision for the person?

That is my whole point.

[Diana Michelle]

I am not denigrating her, but had a father been present (someone who understood that young boys, as well as girls can be very cruel.)

Yeah, Diana, the problem here is that I am an intolerant homophobic misogynist bigot. . .No worry about real world consequences.

That says it all as far as the subject of the mother is concerned in your mind so I am just going to leave your own words stand for themselves.

Bad analogy. In the same way I have the same choice of driving to a further bridge, I also have the choice of how to handle my issue.

My point exactly! You want a group for the heterosexual crossdresser be it a Tri-Ess chapter or something else. If one path is closed seek another. What have you done in this aspect other than bemoan the loss of the once vibrant Tri-Ess organization? Have you run ads? Made phone calls? Sought out others of like thoughts?

Who among us is qualified to make that decision for the person?

The only person qualified to determine if one is truly TG or whatever is a qualified licensed therapist. For some of us who have been around the TG scene a long time we may have suspicions and opinions however we are not qualified to make that call. I have worked with many before, during, and even after transition however the first thing I insist on is they see a therapist, preferably one versed in gender issues. While I can generally spot a wannabe from a true TG being human I have been known to make mistakes.

[Jean Ann]

I am in Texas and would be very interested in
joining / starting such a CD group
and / or meeting interested people

Jean Ann

[Bernice]

There is no Tri-ess in my area, and not sure I'd be a good fit anyway.

Anne Bonny and I are a lot alike, or at least I'd like to think so. I'd meet with her any day... almost anywhere.

There have been others on this forum who appear inactive now, who I think I knew well enough to meet with in person.

I did have an online friend (another forum) who lived almost locally, and we did set up a meeting en drab, but unfortunately the other individual apparently chickened out at the last moment and cut off all contact. I'm not here to judge. It can be awkward, and/or intimidating.

I have met with SilverLady and Virginia, both of whom graciously hosted me (en drab due to circumstances beyond my control) in their lovely home on the mountain, and I can say it was life-changing in a very positive way! I wish I didn't live so blasted far away.

Trust is earned, and it is a slow process, but until we learn to network in person, and protest in person, like the LG movement, and for that matter, the women's lib movement demanding acceptance for wearing slacks everywhere, we'll never be left alone by the haters.

Hugs,

Bernice

[Sarah Rene]

Kind of an interesting thread from where it started and where it has gone. I was 10 when I came out to my sister who was my guardian, both of my parents had passed away. Thankfully Rachel didn't shun me and accepted her "baby" sister and I eventually went FT at 13. Lot o advantages to doing at a youthful age still there cn be potential issues.

One interesting point that came out was in essence the fear of discovery or other people's reactions. I went through that at first but believe me the more time one spends out and about b it FT or part time the more comfortable you become in the situation. You will quickly discover that most people are more concerned with their daily life and what is going around in their immediate circle and not focused on others. Yes there are always those few still, just ignore them and go about your business and that will address 99.99% of those. As for that .01%? They are out to cause trouble and you have to evacuate the situation as quickly and quietly as possible.