"Where Do Cross-dressers Fit into the Transgender Community?"
Article from 2015, with more than a few internal contradictions. For instance:
Yet what about the cross-dressers who self-identify as a transgender woman, yet do not want to become a full-time woman and are still content in their dual-gender role as a male and femme self? Their femme identity needs to emerge, but not so much as they feel they were born the wrong gender. Many cross-dressers still use the term transgender woman and contend that the transsexuals “stole” the term which was once inclusive of cross-dressing men.
I suspect the only thing that is not in question in this article is this comment:
"Cross-dressers are a largely misunderstood group. . ."
It also asks some interesting questions and concludes:
"Cross-dressers are still looked at like deviants by many because of their refusal to come out and show/tell us who they are. Until they do, the transgender (transsexual) woman will be the one who defines them."
Please, give it a read, and share your thoughts. It is here:
http://www.chicagonow.com/shades-gender ... community/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Article "Where Do Cross-dressers Fit into the Transgender Co
Moderators: KimberlyS, CathyAnn
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Wesley
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DonnaT
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Re: Article "Where Do Cross-dressers Fit into the Transgende
CDs have their own space on the trans spectrum, and it is their own space.
And not all CDs believe they are anywhere on the trans spectrum.
Also, IMHO we (some CDs) are transgender but we aren't trans women. A trans woman is a woman born male, who has transitioned (not necessarily medically or surgically) because they self identify as a woman.
There is at least one issue with being a CD and publicly arguing about being trans and wanting trans rights. Doing so can set back the trans rights movement. Identifying as a woman is one thing, but identifying as a man who likes to cross-dress, especially with regard to public accommodations, is another; and will not get much support from the CIS world, and not even much support from trans women.
What happens if trans rights become law, but they've added an exclusion for CDs, especially with regard to public accommodations and even employment? Nope, as a CD, I'd rather be ignored when trans rights are finally decided and enumerated, i.e., listed only as 'transgender'.
And not all CDs believe they are anywhere on the trans spectrum.
Also, IMHO we (some CDs) are transgender but we aren't trans women. A trans woman is a woman born male, who has transitioned (not necessarily medically or surgically) because they self identify as a woman.
There is at least one issue with being a CD and publicly arguing about being trans and wanting trans rights. Doing so can set back the trans rights movement. Identifying as a woman is one thing, but identifying as a man who likes to cross-dress, especially with regard to public accommodations, is another; and will not get much support from the CIS world, and not even much support from trans women.
What happens if trans rights become law, but they've added an exclusion for CDs, especially with regard to public accommodations and even employment? Nope, as a CD, I'd rather be ignored when trans rights are finally decided and enumerated, i.e., listed only as 'transgender'.
DonnaT
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KimberlyS
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Re: Article "Where Do Cross-dressers Fit into the Transgende
Wesley thanks for the link. It is a good read.
Donna you have some very good points to think on. I agree very much so on the public accommodation of restrooms.
kimberlys
Donna you have some very good points to think on. I agree very much so on the public accommodation of restrooms.
kimberlys
Site Administrator
I am a physically male person that likes to wear feminine clothes at times.
Just trying keep a balance for my self along with keeping my wife and kids in mind.
I am a physically male person that likes to wear feminine clothes at times.
Just trying keep a balance for my self along with keeping my wife and kids in mind.
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Noeleena
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Re: Article "Where Do Cross-dressers Fit into the Transgende
Hi,
Okay concerning different right,s what does it mean to have rights as a male , with in the male side of things or details , are they writen into how a male is to be treated what obligations does he have what can he expect with in society ,
A female is treated differently , what are her rights with in society and some of those rights our women in the 1890.s to 1920,s were gained by us standing up and being counted as worthy of having a place with in society and could have our say and be able to stand on our own two feet and decide what ...we... needed, in fact the 2 nd WW allso paved the way for us as well in many way,s .
Now some of those ...right,s we gained are being taken away or put back into men,s hands ,
infact men have taken them , now the can of worm,s
men who wont to dress in our clothes and they are = were designed for us in shape fit and style , so when men wear those clothes are in fact impersonating us and dont wont to be known or seen so use what ever they can so they can i,ll use ...pass...with out being known , allright so far, now what happens is those men then wont our space,s that were for us only so where does that leave us , a male can go into our loo,s and spaces yet it is a place for only female,s .
So in effect we have lost our right,s and some of us are being called out as not being female when in fact we are born female .
Now our island people wear skirts and dress,s both men and women yet theres no issue because the men are not trying to be like women thats where the difference is.
I dont care if men wear a dress or skirt and tops what ever, i have friends who do , its not an issue it,s when they try to impersonate us and then take what we have away, and have more rights than we do i start to see, red. dont get me wrong i have helped trans people and dresser,s in many way,s , so i do know what,s going on.
A ? i sent out to many 100,s of dresser.s would they wear a dressor skirt and or top /tee or some thing suitable and did not try to impersonat women ,,,i know of two men who do, and i have talked to one, concerning that detail .
another ? i asked was do men really understand our needs or like many dont really care a damn about us so long as they get what they ...wont... and do ...what ... they wont with out regard for us,
Now to hit this home , how would you feel if you were where we are in all this , would you even concider to see this from our point of view, or like i said , just....dont care a Damn.
I have tryed to get men to see and feel whats it really like being a female one who is born a female.
i was ignored and i knew i would be, Being a female is not like dresser,s think it is dare i say many live in a fantasy world , where as for us we have to live it, real life every day,
I wont get into it trans rights , theres a good number who wont all the rights and more than we have yet many are not being real they are on the band wagon just for the ride, and using what ever for a good time or so they think and at other,s expence, and then after they,v had fun they lose interest and go back to being what they were born as, of cause at other,s expence,, I know some who have done that, for some who really do need surgerys and what ever are thrown out, , a sad state of affairs
...noeleena...
Okay concerning different right,s what does it mean to have rights as a male , with in the male side of things or details , are they writen into how a male is to be treated what obligations does he have what can he expect with in society ,
A female is treated differently , what are her rights with in society and some of those rights our women in the 1890.s to 1920,s were gained by us standing up and being counted as worthy of having a place with in society and could have our say and be able to stand on our own two feet and decide what ...we... needed, in fact the 2 nd WW allso paved the way for us as well in many way,s .
Now some of those ...right,s we gained are being taken away or put back into men,s hands ,
infact men have taken them , now the can of worm,s
men who wont to dress in our clothes and they are = were designed for us in shape fit and style , so when men wear those clothes are in fact impersonating us and dont wont to be known or seen so use what ever they can so they can i,ll use ...pass...with out being known , allright so far, now what happens is those men then wont our space,s that were for us only so where does that leave us , a male can go into our loo,s and spaces yet it is a place for only female,s .
So in effect we have lost our right,s and some of us are being called out as not being female when in fact we are born female .
Now our island people wear skirts and dress,s both men and women yet theres no issue because the men are not trying to be like women thats where the difference is.
I dont care if men wear a dress or skirt and tops what ever, i have friends who do , its not an issue it,s when they try to impersonate us and then take what we have away, and have more rights than we do i start to see, red. dont get me wrong i have helped trans people and dresser,s in many way,s , so i do know what,s going on.
A ? i sent out to many 100,s of dresser.s would they wear a dressor skirt and or top /tee or some thing suitable and did not try to impersonat women ,,,i know of two men who do, and i have talked to one, concerning that detail .
another ? i asked was do men really understand our needs or like many dont really care a damn about us so long as they get what they ...wont... and do ...what ... they wont with out regard for us,
Now to hit this home , how would you feel if you were where we are in all this , would you even concider to see this from our point of view, or like i said , just....dont care a Damn.
I have tryed to get men to see and feel whats it really like being a female one who is born a female.
i was ignored and i knew i would be, Being a female is not like dresser,s think it is dare i say many live in a fantasy world , where as for us we have to live it, real life every day,
I wont get into it trans rights , theres a good number who wont all the rights and more than we have yet many are not being real they are on the band wagon just for the ride, and using what ever for a good time or so they think and at other,s expence, and then after they,v had fun they lose interest and go back to being what they were born as, of cause at other,s expence,, I know some who have done that, for some who really do need surgerys and what ever are thrown out, , a sad state of affairs
...noeleena...
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Eris Lunara
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Re: Article "Where Do Cross-dressers Fit into the Transgende
Helen Boyd wrote about how crossdressers really fit into a number of groups. There are some transfolk who prior to transition may seem like crossdressers. At the other end of the CD spectrum are those for whom it's a sexual fetish and little else. And all sorts of other subsets, I think she had about 7 of them.
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Amanda R
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Re: Article "Where Do Cross-dressers Fit into the Transgende
Where do crossdressers fit into the transgender community? Honestly anywhere they want to honestly. Yes there are tremendous differences between those who are truly trans whether they opt to act on it or not and the crossdresser however don't confuse community as a whole and its goals with how one fits into society. As one who took the path to correct nature's wrong I can see how some may think the TG community is out to "convert: everyone but the reality is this is pure fiction to be polite.
The TG community and in fact the larger LGBTQ community is seeking equality and to be not considered different but rather just equals and enjoy the same rights afforded the "straight" community, many of which they take for granted. The right to marry, the right to adopt, the right to live their life as they see fit and not how society thinks the should, and yes even the right to feel safe and not be harassed while using public rest rooms. It is a fight for all that fall under the umbrella of transgendered and they should all hope and pray they win and support them in any way they can.
Yes crossdressers are a largely misunderstood group but TG individuals are as well. Certainly there is more acceptance and understanding today than even 13 years when I told my mother I was a girl at the ripe old age of 15 but we have a long way to go. Much of that has come from being more out allowing the general population to see we are not freaks or abominations of nature but just people.
"Cross-dressers are still looked at like deviants by many because of their refusal to come out and show/tell us who they are. Until they do, the transgender (transsexual) woman will be the one who defines them."
As for that statement all I can say is sadly it is true but only because crossdressers allow them to. I don't know about the rest of you but I can remember saying something like, "But Mom everyone is doing it" to which she would ask me "And if everyone was jumping off a bridge would you?" No one can define you unless you allow them to. The average crossdresser still carries a feeling of shame concerning it thus never says anything to anyone including their spouse. Yes much of that feeling can be attributed to society's attitude toward CDs however until more step up and say "Yes this is who and what I am and I am proud of it" the CD will allow others to define them.
I have been attending Pride parades for several years now and have seen more CDs there. The problem is while some come for the right reason however too many come as they just see it as a way of going out dressed in public. If you want to establish an identity then stand up and come out! March in the Pride parades. Show the world there is a lot more to the entire CD community than those who just seek a cheap sexual thrill from it, the images of drag queens, and the memories of the Jerry Springer show. However while you are there don't forget to thank those who came before you winning those few precious rights we have now today.
Noeleena raises an interesting and sadly true fact about how women are treated differently. Frankly it doesn't matter if it is a CIS or trans woman people particularly males see them different. Even today in the era of women's rights and MeToo women are still paid less than their male counterparts. They still are barred from the boardrooms and executive offices because of the pink glass ceiling in many cases. They are questioned about their emotional capabilities when it comes to political office. They labeled tomboys or worse dykes should they enjoy a male dominated activity. They still have to be constantly aware of potential predators while walking alone in a parking lot. It makes no difference if they are CIS or trans these are facts of life. As a CD you can just go back to being male and put these behind you, a woman regardless of how gender identified at birth cannot.
Putting on my therapist's hat I can see why you want a separate identity for crossdressers from that of the trans woman Wesley and I applaud you for it. IMHO the entire therapy community has done an injustice to both by lumping into the same category for their need are very different. My question to you is what are you doing to bring this about?
The TG community and in fact the larger LGBTQ community is seeking equality and to be not considered different but rather just equals and enjoy the same rights afforded the "straight" community, many of which they take for granted. The right to marry, the right to adopt, the right to live their life as they see fit and not how society thinks the should, and yes even the right to feel safe and not be harassed while using public rest rooms. It is a fight for all that fall under the umbrella of transgendered and they should all hope and pray they win and support them in any way they can.
Yes crossdressers are a largely misunderstood group but TG individuals are as well. Certainly there is more acceptance and understanding today than even 13 years when I told my mother I was a girl at the ripe old age of 15 but we have a long way to go. Much of that has come from being more out allowing the general population to see we are not freaks or abominations of nature but just people.
"Cross-dressers are still looked at like deviants by many because of their refusal to come out and show/tell us who they are. Until they do, the transgender (transsexual) woman will be the one who defines them."
As for that statement all I can say is sadly it is true but only because crossdressers allow them to. I don't know about the rest of you but I can remember saying something like, "But Mom everyone is doing it" to which she would ask me "And if everyone was jumping off a bridge would you?" No one can define you unless you allow them to. The average crossdresser still carries a feeling of shame concerning it thus never says anything to anyone including their spouse. Yes much of that feeling can be attributed to society's attitude toward CDs however until more step up and say "Yes this is who and what I am and I am proud of it" the CD will allow others to define them.
I have been attending Pride parades for several years now and have seen more CDs there. The problem is while some come for the right reason however too many come as they just see it as a way of going out dressed in public. If you want to establish an identity then stand up and come out! March in the Pride parades. Show the world there is a lot more to the entire CD community than those who just seek a cheap sexual thrill from it, the images of drag queens, and the memories of the Jerry Springer show. However while you are there don't forget to thank those who came before you winning those few precious rights we have now today.
Noeleena raises an interesting and sadly true fact about how women are treated differently. Frankly it doesn't matter if it is a CIS or trans woman people particularly males see them different. Even today in the era of women's rights and MeToo women are still paid less than their male counterparts. They still are barred from the boardrooms and executive offices because of the pink glass ceiling in many cases. They are questioned about their emotional capabilities when it comes to political office. They labeled tomboys or worse dykes should they enjoy a male dominated activity. They still have to be constantly aware of potential predators while walking alone in a parking lot. It makes no difference if they are CIS or trans these are facts of life. As a CD you can just go back to being male and put these behind you, a woman regardless of how gender identified at birth cannot.
Putting on my therapist's hat I can see why you want a separate identity for crossdressers from that of the trans woman Wesley and I applaud you for it. IMHO the entire therapy community has done an injustice to both by lumping into the same category for their need are very different. My question to you is what are you doing to bring this about?
"We may have all come on different ships but we are in the same boat now."
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
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Anne Bonny
- Miss Diamond Goddess
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Re: Article "Where Do Cross-dressers Fit into the Transgende
I am not the same person that I was even last year! The progress of all of my thinking and talking with others has helped me to make tremendous progress in understanding who I am. I really do believe I have reached an end point as far as this part of who I am is concerned. I can say I believe that my work is done here! Finally. The only thing that can change from here would be a decision about just how out in the open I want to be with it. And if in the next few years I find a new partner after being widowed, well... if that is to happen it better happen because I will be 82 in just 20 years...I am approaching the limits of human existence...a very few make it to 115 or 123! Unless medical science finds a way to increase the length of our Telomeres. No wonder I am depressed...mildly because that is not a very cheerful reality that greets any of us.
I do see and this without the fog that develops between reality and fantasy that can happen in the imagination about who we are and what we desire. Reality...I do see an accepting loving encouraging partner as something that could very well happen. And I could with such love and encouragement find it much easier due to such support to come to relax even further in allowing others to know that I am as I am.
What is the big deal anyway...I like who I am why should it make any difference to people in my life who know and love me? Who think of me as a person who they value and who think about me that I am someone who is worth while knowing because I am nice and they like being around me. I like to sail...Run...Dance...do Photography occasionally...I am not just who I happen to be inside! AA, BA, BS N, MSN, CDE, 20 years in Military Nursing and Diabetic Educator, Husband, Father, Grandfather...and on the inside I am someone who has a difference always have, always will...
I will probably wear whatever I desire and be one way or the other depending on my mood. Why should what I feel like inside or dress like at any particular time effect whatever I am choosing to do on any particular day? The tasks and activities have nothing to do with how I feel or what I choose to wear...We are all subject to feel differently moment to moment because people are all emotional and moody.
I suppose we are all activists in some way but I am much more than an identity...I am able to shape the opinion of those who know me...and hopefully in turn those people will correct and shape misconceptions too like the ripples that proceed outward from a drop of water in ever wider circles.
I recognize the progress made by those who are courageous, who are stronger and who are not going to take it any more! We owe them a great deal of thanks. I have learned to reject labels...I am not cross anything...I do believe some are not meant to transition...for one it has to do with who we happen to love and in that case I love women...the other thing besides not feeling as if my body is disgusting to me...yet I am different inside and I do share some of the things ... interests, desires, emotions, and preferences that women tend to have...while I am different...my brain is male. Objectively there is a difference in degree and also in who we happen to love and in our degree of gender variance in that while I am different than other men...yet I am not completely different so that it would place me on the other side of the fence so that my brain is trapped in the wrong body.
I do see and this without the fog that develops between reality and fantasy that can happen in the imagination about who we are and what we desire. Reality...I do see an accepting loving encouraging partner as something that could very well happen. And I could with such love and encouragement find it much easier due to such support to come to relax even further in allowing others to know that I am as I am.
What is the big deal anyway...I like who I am why should it make any difference to people in my life who know and love me? Who think of me as a person who they value and who think about me that I am someone who is worth while knowing because I am nice and they like being around me. I like to sail...Run...Dance...do Photography occasionally...I am not just who I happen to be inside! AA, BA, BS N, MSN, CDE, 20 years in Military Nursing and Diabetic Educator, Husband, Father, Grandfather...and on the inside I am someone who has a difference always have, always will...
I will probably wear whatever I desire and be one way or the other depending on my mood. Why should what I feel like inside or dress like at any particular time effect whatever I am choosing to do on any particular day? The tasks and activities have nothing to do with how I feel or what I choose to wear...We are all subject to feel differently moment to moment because people are all emotional and moody.
I suppose we are all activists in some way but I am much more than an identity...I am able to shape the opinion of those who know me...and hopefully in turn those people will correct and shape misconceptions too like the ripples that proceed outward from a drop of water in ever wider circles.
I recognize the progress made by those who are courageous, who are stronger and who are not going to take it any more! We owe them a great deal of thanks. I have learned to reject labels...I am not cross anything...I do believe some are not meant to transition...for one it has to do with who we happen to love and in that case I love women...the other thing besides not feeling as if my body is disgusting to me...yet I am different inside and I do share some of the things ... interests, desires, emotions, and preferences that women tend to have...while I am different...my brain is male. Objectively there is a difference in degree and also in who we happen to love and in our degree of gender variance in that while I am different than other men...yet I am not completely different so that it would place me on the other side of the fence so that my brain is trapped in the wrong body.
Go with the flow