the genderbread doll

[Eris Lunara]

I was at a Pride Fair a couple of years ago and they had something called the genderbread doll.

It examined things from 4 perspectives. First was biological sex. Most of us have a male or female body. A few do not. Some who have a male or female body have chromosomes at odds with that Female bodied people with XY or male bodied with XX. There is also XXX, XXY, and XYY The polarity is sex vs not being a gender

2nd parameter is sexual orientation. Are we attracted to the opposite sex, the same sex, both sexes or some variant, like a friend who is mostly attracted to those who don't fit into any of the binary formats. The polarity is sexual vs asexual. Attracted to someone vs attracted to no one.

Then there is gender identity. How we understand ourselves. For most, this corresponds to our biological gender. For some it does not. For some who's gender identity doesn't match their biological gender, the term trans sexual feels appropriate. The polarity is gendered, i.e. maleness or femaleness, vs the opposite, non gendered.

Last is gender expression. Does one express oneself as feminine or masculine? The polarity is a gendered expression vs gendered expression. One can be both very masculine and very feminine.


It's that last parameter that is of interest to most of us I think. And I think it's very interesting that one can be very masculine AND very feminine, and that the opposite of this is to be neither. Of course to some extent this corresponds to how masculine and feminine are defined. To take the common labels of rational (masculine) vs intuitive (feminine) one can be very rational and very intuitive, or one can be irrational and non intuitive, which is probably not a lot of fun.

Wondering how people here think this fits in with how we talk about being feminine but male bodied here. Because masculine and feminine is about so much more than clothes.

[Noeleena]

Hi,

There are more than just X,s and Y,s theres over 21 different types and makes not one scrap of difference for some of us we are both male female our bodys are more complicated so when i tell other,s i just say i,m made of both male and female try to divide that or separate all our component part,s in every detail, becomes a nightmare from our organs and wether we have them or not to how our mind works in our emotions to explain what we are would take a lot of writing 20 full a4 pages and then some.

I,m a female born one out of every 7000, females without our womb,s and differences in what sexual organs we have or dont or for some of us we have a few just not enough to have egg,s , so we miss out on giving birth to our own child or children. thats the most hardest thing we as females ... well most to have to live with, it degrades us put,s us down and we feel worthless so Psychologically and Emotionally it effects us through out life,i know it does myself .

So one of our family gave birth to a lovely little girl and for myself she was my child i could not give birth to she is now over 17 so going back to her birth , she keeped me alive,i spent a lot of time with her and going to camps and places we could do things .

Unless your a female men dont understand what it,s like we are hard wired differently so this is some thing i have tryed to explain to men so being intersexed comes with many differences,

My maleness side, and yes is very much a part of what makes me stronger both in body and mind i worked with men for most of my working life and yes hard work many women could not work as we did or even try in some ways i had that strength men have so could work along side and do what they could do. so i had and have disadvantages yet i allso have advantages so where i lack i made up in other way,s so i learned to live life differently .

Yes i am disapointed in myself in a few ways things i cant do, some sure not in a way that men would love ... sexually ... so i express myself in ways that,s just a part of who i am and what makes me different.

My femaleness , Hmmm.
I wont say i,m pretty or sexy looking facial feature,s took care of that, yet for all that i have been places and met many 1000,s of people been on TVNZ Cambell Live and Close up TV New Zealand to 3 Million people and given talks to large groups of people so yes been in the spotlight,,

So had i been born just a male or female complete with my organs , i would never been able to have the life i have , so looking back it has sure not been boring , because i am different i took what i was given and worked with that, hard at times yes,,,,yet i dont ever regret how i was born .

I dont know what it would be like to be ether a male .... for me with their strange way,s ...lol,s . or
a complete female i have no clue being born a mix of both i dont know any other way, i cannot even contemplate what it would be like ,

A ? i was given was if you could be given this , what would you like to be born as a male or female .

The ? has no meaning i can not answer, other than to say, well this is how i am i dont know another way. Till you have lived in another.s shoe,s or life, how can you know,

Okay think that muddies the water a bit and some what confusing hope gives you an idear of my differences,

...noeleena...

[Anthony Simon]

On the rationality vs. intuitive thing, I do think rationally but whether or not I take a decision is defined by what my instincts are. It's just much more reliable if I do it like that. I do associate that with me being female. On the other hand, I do these quite aggressive debating things - and feel that's me being "a man" (even if the underlying perception may come from "my female side").

[Diana Michelle]

I am always fascinated by the discussion of gender roles and characteristics for most of what people identify as a male or a female trait is stereotyping. In my observations outside of the physical differences the one thing I have noticed is females tend to be more emotional however I attribute that to hormones. Just ask any girl who has transitioned and been on an HRT regimen about the emotional roller coaster. Yes I know men who are emotional and TBH find it refreshing but for the most part men tend to bury their emotions.

On the point of "rationality vs intuitive" I believe at least most think rationally. It is funny though how when a woman makes a choice against her thought process it is her "intuition" but when a man does the same it because his "gut" guides him. IMO it is the same thing. I know I have had made more than one decision based of "intuition" and been told I am thinking emotionally or thinking with my hormones. When confronted in this manner I always reply "And your point is?" Think about love which is quite an irrational concept. There is no rational reason why you are in love with one individual but not another very similar one. So why this one and not that one?

As for being "aggressive" being a male trait I highly disagree. Yes I know many "strong" men but I also know an equal if not greater number of strong women. In my never to be humble opinion whether one is a strong or weak person is a case of personality, circumstance, environment, and upbringing. It is strange though when a man is aggressive he is viewed as powerful and a leader yet when a woman is she is though of as being a b!tch or is just PMSing. Yes there has been some movement in this over the years but the biggest change is while many still think like this fewer will verbalize it today.

[Noeleena]

Evening

Gender roles i quess this comes down to what country you were born in, background and the race you are,or a mix of.
The roles you take part in can be very different yet there are some things we are born with, and that for many is normal except for some of us who were born with abnormality,s so that role was not there for us to be able to do and enjoy.we have the mind set and emotonal aspects just can not live that part of life,

So the society your born in has a very large bearing yet some of us dont go along with that , because we are strong minded we debunk what is expected of us ,i did and continue to i made up my mind what i was going to do and got on with life , so there is no right or wrong thats a myth, and proven from way back before societys had a say, of cause the dress code is another one food allso and you can talk about a lot of details does not make one person right or wrong , the can of beans is some people wonted to rule over other,s , and demand of them what they should do. and yes its a very complicated set of issue,s as we are seeing now.

I know from my up bringing we were told from school age what to do in so much well years later what a lot of lie,s we were told for many of us in New Zealand so i started to go against that, did i make the right way, ....Very much so as i wrote off so much it was false as, our issue is when the english come here they brought so much that should never have come here, it was the attitude and dogmatic idear,s ,and its taken many years for us to have a life that is better,

So when you read the history that they wrote and what we know today you will wonder could they not face up to what they did,

Some of the tough guys , are they really ,or just a show or the one upmanship, i see so often , and yes a few women are the same hormone,s play a role ...yes... and yet what is the factor that goven,s this.a percived attitude because i have seen men become total can not do any thing like their mind is so scrambled they are wiped out war time......and could not function ,

What i would like to see is can we not just get on with other,s and accept them for who they are or is this too much wishfull thinking and work together yes i know we have different detail male / female yet is that the real issue .

So for a lol,s so what is my gender role.some thing of every thing,and enjoy doing it,

...noeleena...