Comments from Helen Boyd

[Loretta Ann]

Hi again,

Compromise...a life long strategy to come to a mutual agreement that benefits both parties.

I agree. my ex wife and I came to a mutual agreement that benefits both parties.

[Jassmine(SO)]

Howdy Y'all

Ah, the fine art of compromising.....The very first thing one must learn about this art is what is an accepetable comprise and what isn't. What is acceptable is compromises based on finances, vacations, what color car to buy, etc....What isn't acceptable is to ask anyone to compromise on is who they are and what they need to do to be who they are. This is why Ahzz has free reign on when and how often he wishes to CD. It is truly not my place to tell him to set any limitations on what he feels he needs to do to be happy and content in life. If I have any problems with anything in that purview, they are my personal problems to resolve or not and leave the relationship if I cannot. Ahzz allows me the same freedoms. And I feel that because of the facts that we both accept, love each other unconditionally, and allow each other the time and space to be who we are, are the reasons why we so seldom have the need to compromise on anything.


What else is love but understanding and rejoicing in the fact that another person lives, acts, and experiences otherwise than we do…?
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

When you give each other everything, it becomes an even trade. Each wins all.
Lois McMaster Bujold, A Civil Campaign, 1999

Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments: love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds.
William Shakespeare

*Hugs & Love*

[CJ]

Hi all,

I've tried to put these words into practice in my own relationships (and they bear repeating): love is not love which alters when it alteration finds. The alteration of this love is avoidable if the loved one has been truthful and honest about what is unalterable in his or her own character and personality. Yes, some things are "uncompromisable." Hence, separations and divorces due to "irreconcilable" differences. This is the best argument for the necessity of letting your partner know, beforehand, what, exactly, those aspects are of your own being that admit of no compromise; it then remains for her to determine if this is something she's willing (or able) to compose with. If not, it's an irreconcilable difference. Better to know this while dating than after you've been partnered for fifteen years.

Good post, Jassmine. Thanks.

Love,
CJ

[Loretta Ann]

Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments: love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds.

Hi all,

Interesting and thought provoking, and I believe to be true.

I have heard others tell me that some of the things that have other wise been un-reconcilable in their marriage, have simply vanished in their minds. When they acknowledged their inability to deal with it to their higher power.

That is how I try and live my life. Concerning the things in my life that I would prefer to have eliminated or replaced. After acknowledging them to my higher power, I then look for the power to live with the warts that he chooses not remove, or replace.

But never going beyond that. If he does not remove, replace them, or give me the power to live with them. I am out of there. Period,

Love Darlene.

[Kay(SO)]

I haven't been here in awhile and just came by to browse. The one thing that came to mind when reading these posts was the word "perspective." Everything is a matter of perspective and as we are all individuals, each of our perspective may have a slightly different twist to them. What's difficult is to appreciate this fact and put our own perspective out there for other's to see without minimizing or negating someone else's when they attempt to do the same. Just making an observation.

Kay

[Loretta Ann]

Main Entry: ne·gate
Pronunciation: ni-'gAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): ne·gat·ed; ne·gat·ing
Etymology: Latin negatus, past participle of negare to say no, deny, from neg- no, not (akin to ne- not) -- more at NO
1 : to deny the existence or truth of
2 : to cause to be ineffective or invalid

Hi Kay,

I don't understand? There is nothing you can post that would fit the above description, (as far as I am concerned.) Anything you might say is never more than an opinion, and it is within my power to control what influence that might have over me.

I suspect that should be the same for everyone, unless one is the kind of person that allows others to control them? In which case they are tossed to and fro by what others think anyway.

Happy New Year.
Love Darlene.

[Danielle La Belle]

Darlene, do you really think that you are in such "control" that you really have choosen your life and the results there to? After all, we are pre-programmed to perform a variety of tasks as humans even before we can speak a language. So, some of those things that you have come to believe you "control" are more automatic than one may wish to believe.

There are many decisions made for us every day and many more that were made before we were born. So, the best that we can hope for is that we reflect our current social norms for the most part.

Many in this forum did not know that in the 1800's, pink was for boys and blue was for girls. Blue was considered at the time, to feminine a color for boys. You and I did not make that social change, we adopted it as a belief of our social times. You did not choose to believe it, the concept was communicated to you as an exisiting belief of others that you were rightly influenced by during the formative years of your development. It became "your truth" not by "control" but rather social adoption as many rules are transmitted to us without question or judgement.

Something to banter over.

Hugs

Danielle Marie

[Kay(SO)]

Darlene,

I wasn't referring to myself or anyone in particular, just making a generalized observation and statement. I have seen this done so many times, especially in mixed groups and it usually leads to unresolvable differences and where those involved end up "agreeing to disagree". I wasn't even saying that this had anything to do with what was being said here. Just the word perspective made me run off on a tangent about how most things are a matter of just that, one's perspective. In the end, we all see things differently.

Kay

[Beauty]

I haven't been here in awhile and just came by to browse. The one thing that came to mind when reading these posts was the word "perspective." Everything is a matter of perspective and as we are all individuals, each of our perspective may have a slightly different twist to them. What's difficult is to appreciate this fact and put our own perspective out there for other's to see without minimizing or negating someone else's when they attempt to do the same. Just making an observation.

Kay

Holy wow. That was pretty deep.

It was very wise and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I feel if people followed your concept a lot less arguments would happen.

Beauty

[Kay(SO)]

Thank you Miss Beauty,

I appreciate that coming from you; someone I admire greatly and have since I first came here. Sometimes I get into a contemplative mode and right now that's how I'm feeling. My hubby is gone for a few days dressing and for some peace away from the kids and I. I always tend to get into deep thinking during these times. Hugs to you my dear,

Kay

[Loretta Ann]

Happy New Year Danielle,

Thank you for your thoughts,
For the first forty some what years of my life I was indeed tossed to
and fro by what others said and did. I had no self control. In fact did
not even realize what it meant to be self controlled.

Darlene, do you really think that you are in such "control" that you
really have chosen your life and the results there to? After all, we are
pre-programmed to perform a variety of tasks as humans even before we
can speak a language. So, some of those things that you have come to
believe you "control" are more automatic than one may wish to believe.

I have had to un-learn old ways and learn new ways of living and there
was nothing automatic about that. As I have practiced the new ways some
of them have indeed become rather automatic

I have never understood the words I have seen posted many times over by
different people, ("We will just have to agree to disagree on this
one.") That has never been something I have had control of, but just
another hard part of reality, another unchangeable given the same as my
inability to change the fact that certain of my needs are met through
cross-dressing that can not be met any other way.

At this point I feel I need to ask you what ever gave you reason to
believe that I think I have any control over the choice of my life? Have
I not repeatedly inferred that it has more to do with understanding who
you are (re getting beyond denial) and then learning how to love and
live with that person, in a sometimes hostile world? Where have I failed
you? Enlighten me please?

Oh that we may all find the serenity to accept the things we can not
change, the ability to change the things we can, and the wisdom to know
the difference.

The best that I can hope for, is to glean (something useful) from the
likes of people like you rather than to oppose each other.

Love Darlene.

PS. Pink has never been anything but a fem color for me, so I was not influenced by them.

[Virginia]

Perception is reality!! - who said that??
Social Adaptation - Society rules?!
Compromise
Pre-Programmed
Marriage License - female preception = what's mine is mine! what's ours is mine! what's yours is mine! (her lawyer's perception RIGHT ON HONEY!)
On the divorce issue - "society = courts" make it too easy to divorce. Judge's positon is simply "get this crap off my docket - when's my tee time and where is my pay check?" They don't care about the lives of the people involved, they don't or can't recommend counselling or try to save the relationships - its a "throwaway society"The courts figure that they had tried compromise it did not work so kill it and move on!
Pre-programmed - yes I think most of us who are blessed with this "gift" and try to understand it and share it are pre-programmed. The understanding and sharing that is the difficult part is it not. We all know that there are 'those of us" who don't have a clue, don't want a clue and appear to be content with just the desire to CD to whatever level that they "achieve". Hiding "in the closet" comes with the territory; it is just their lot in life. Sharing/Compromising with an SO is so far beyond their comprehension they are content to live in "fear of getting caught" just to 'satisfy" this totally not understood desire to wear clothing of the opposite sex. Where is the compromise in that - it is with themselves.
New C&W song by Jimmy Buffett and Martina McBride one line "Enjoy your ride on this trip around the sun." Selfish - OH! Yes! Reality for CD'ers OH yes! Compromise??? Depends on who knows "you" are a CD'er.
Pre-Programmed - "It's gotta be done!" Social Adaptation: in today's society it's " get it anyway you can!"
Those of us who have "come out" have our own individual compromises with those we have to negotiate with. As for me (Virginia) and society - "ya don't like it - up yours!!!!!!"
Love you,
Virginia

[CJ]

Hi all,

Kay,

I'm thrilled to see you still pop in once in a while. You're right, you know (or should I say, "my perspective aligns itself with your perspective" ): perspective is a crucial point to consider. We always come from our own vantage points. Can it ever be otherwise?

I remember my basic literary criticism courses from a few years back. They taught us a gazillion ways to dissect a text: from the psychoanalytic perspective, the Marxist (and post-Marxist) perspectives, the structuralist (and post-structuralist) perspectives, the feminist perspective, the Jungian archetypal perspective, the religious (and spiritual) perspectives, the historical context perspective, the phenomenological perspective, etc., etc. Basically, what I got from this is that there's always more than one way to skin a cat (not that I'd ever skin a cat, mind you ).

The best we can hope for is that people will make a genuine effort to understand what the lay of the land looks like from our own perch (cf. the discussion, elsewhere on this forum, on the need to read the words of others in the most charitable way possible). The worst that can happen is that they'll be unable, for whatever reasons, to do so. When that happens, people usually "agree to disagree" (well, they'll say this, even though, in their own hearts, they might not be willing to come to such an agreement--in that case, avoidance is best).

I often see my sisters, here, end their posts with this coda: "This is just one girl's opinion." Or something to that effect. We do this especially when dealing with controversial subjects so as to ward off potential indignant responses. The implication, here, is that our opinions, as opinions, are unassailable. Yet, our opinions are based, amongst other things, on our knowledge (or on our lack of it). This is why our opinions change over time; precisely, because our knowledge and awareness of the world around us changes, as well. The thing that's most helpful, I think, in gaining that knowledge and awareness is the simple act of hearing out other people and inviting them to share with us their experience of the world. Anyway, it's been like that for me (see, there I go again: "This is just one girl's opinion" ). We can only "hear" other people if we're actually listening to them, rather than formulating responses of our own--and from our own perspective, of course!--to every single sentence they write or speak. Only if we're receptive, in other words. But we know that, already. I often wonder why it's so hard to put into practice.

I'm just thankful I'm not telepathic. What a chaos that would be! When some of my clients who suffer from schizophrenia try to describe their experience to me "from the inside," so to speak, it sounds like hell. For one of them, it's like this, he says: "Imagine trying to hold a conversation with someone on the other side of a closet door, while you're standing in that closet, surrounded by ten other people all trying to talk to you at once." Uh, no thanks. Yet, I dare you to stand in a large room at a party and listen to the conversations issuing from the various little groups in the place and tell me the difference between their conversations and what goes on in the mind of a person with schizophrenia. Everybody clamours for attention and, especially, for recognition of the validity and primacy of their own perspective. It sucks. I think this is one reason I avoid such gatherings. (Oddly enough, it seems to me that psychiatrists and other therapists are some of the worst offenders in this.)

Anyway, Kay, all this hot wind on my part just to say that your general observation was spot on, as far as I'm concerned. Drop in more often, why don't you?

Virginia,

You might be thinking of Bishop George Berkeley (1685-1753) who wrote: esse est percipi, a Latin phrase meaning, "to be is to be perceived." We often think of this kind of view whenever we wonder if a tree falling in the forest makes a sound when there's nobody or nothing there to hear it. Berkeley's contention was that "to be perceived" is the fundamental feature pointing to the existence of material things, whereas, on the other hand, "to perceive" (esse est percipere, "to be is to perceive") is the fundamental feature pointing to the existence of spirit or consciousness.

Okay, enough philosophy for one day. I'm pooped.

Love,
CJ

[Beauty]

Thank you Miss Beauty,

I appreciate that coming from you; someone I admire greatly and have since I first came here. Sometimes I get into a contemplative mode and right now that's how I'm feeling. My hubby is gone for a few days dressing and for some peace away from the kids and I. I always tend to get into deep thinking during these times. Hugs to you my dear,

Kay

Awwwww...

:: blushing ::

Thank you Kay!!! I totally feel the same way about you!!

It was also very interesting to read some of the "why" into what got you to thinking that way (when you wrote about perspective). Again I think it was wisdom at it's very best.

Beauty

[Kay(SO)]

CJ,

Wow, that was worth every minute of my morning, reading what you wrote. I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the greeting and I will pop in more often. I seem to finally have a little more time on my hands. What's strange is that I have more clients yet more time. Perhaps I'm just managing it better now?! Anyhoo, thanks and hugs to you.

Beauty,

As I said, I always get that way when I have down time, which usually means no outside distractions. Including my love being here. My brain tends to operate on a different level when there is peace and quiet in the house (rare I might add). And when hubby is here he tends to hog the computer. Hee hee. I'll be around and again thanks and hugs,

Kay