OK. So the question is...

[Jamie Sue]

CJ, I think you wrote the answer to this question. Great response, I love the way you write and express your feelings. I wish I could express myself in this way. Thanks

Love Jamie Sue

[Estefania]

Hey Georgia!

Gaby, what sort of "places no man has been to" do you mean? I assume you mean mental ones..

Mmm... lets see... what did I exactly mean by that? Basically, yes, mental ones. Like being accepted by women as a peer. It doesn't happen all the time, but some times you just can be sure they are seeing you as just another woman, and that feeling is just impossible to describe.

But also on the more mundane side of it... well, never mind. when you have been to a ladies restroom, you have been to all of them! - Actually, I was going to say that it even though I really don't seek or want any attention from men, being able to relate to men as a woman is also.... very, very different. And I'm not talking about seduction. For instance, one example comes to my mind. Being in Atlanta catching a taxi cab to get back to my hotel, the driver was listening to a Braves game on the radio. It was a playoff game I think, so I mentioned the game to him and he kinda dismissed my comment in a "what would women know about baseball anyway" attitude. I thought that was hillarious, and even more when I mentioned something about the stats of the pitcher which was more than accurate. Or going to get an oil change, etc. Yes, men are usually eager to serve better a woman than a man, even though it could be in a very condescending way.

Another feeling... a certain feeling of not being as "mighty and strong" as the average Joe may feel. Sure, if I have a flat tire as a guy, it will be an inconvenience, but not a problem. If I have a flat tire when I'm going to, say, dinner with friends and I'm dressed up nicely, yeah, the feeling would be quite different. But not exactly because I can't handle it, but because it may bring some situation that I may not be totally prepared to handle, from laughter to confrontation, to whatever else it might be. (Specially if a guy stops to help, and he is not very keen to cd/tg individuals).

Anyway, I'll read your original post again, and will see if I'm able to come up with a better answer, ok?

Gaby

Ps... Jeannie, you ask if there have been any times when I have been surprised how I was treated as a woman.... I don't know. Maybe. Most likely, when I go out, I hope for the best (passing/acceptance) but being ready for the worst (which is not terrible, just bad as in being read and such). Still, those times when I can be sure that the other person does really believe she or even he is talking to a woman, those are nice moments. Surprised? The most recent was driving from Atlanta to Nashville a couple weeks ago. Tired, not a drop of makeup other than some lipstick which needed to be refreshed, barefooted cleaning up some stuff with the door of my van open oustide a convenience store. Then this nice lady stops by to talk and she did totally accept me as a woman. Not as a man dressed up as a woman, that's different. Just as a woman. That was so surprising!! *s*

[Sally]

How do I feel in a dress as compared to the other? Well you have to remember that my issues go a lot deeper than just the clothing, but I'll use an anology by painting a little mental picture which may go a little of the way to explaining how I feel. Two words immediately spring to mind and they are 'escape' and 'relief'.

In your minds' eye imagine that in your mail box you receive an invitation to a special occaison party by one of your neighbours (who we shall call Mr & Mrs Boringhars) and you don't especially like Mr & Mrs Boringhars, but for the sake of protocol and to go along with your immediate community you accept the invitation.

On the night in question you roll up and mix with the party goers and to start off everything is sort of ok. You continue to mingle and as the night wears on Mrs Boringhars has a couple of wines and she starts to get under your skin a bit, but you laugh it off as best you can. Further into the night Mr Boringhars has a few more beers and starts to really get under your skin and as time passes you can feel a degree of irritability welling up inside you.

After a few hours Mrs and Mrs Boringhars get a bit more under the weather and by now he's starting to be loud and obnoxious and you can feel a bit of anger starting to replace your irritability. After a few more beers he starts to get in your face and you can feel the wet spray of his words on your skin and you start to clench your fists as real anger starts to take over you and you start to looka round for an escape route. You move away and mingle with other people in the hope he'll go away, but he follows you laughing and talking loudly all the while and you start to feel somewhat of a fear coming over you as the tension builds inside you. It seems that everywhere you turn he's there as if mocking you. As he consumes your space you feel as if the walls are moving in on you constricting your movements, and there's no escape from him. You can feel peoples eyes on you wondering what's going on with you and why you're acting as you are and by now you're really tensed up, full of anger and the feeling takes over you that if you don't rectify this situation you're going to burst.

Eventually the time is right, the opportunity presents itself for you to escape. You quickly say your goodbyes and fly out the door into the cool night air. Your steps quicken as you get closer to your house and eventually you get inside the front door and you stand there leaning back against the door.
You listen. What is that you hear? Nothing. That's right you hear nothing, all is a wonderful serene silence at last. You start to relax and you slowly slide down against the door until you're sitting on the floor. You lean your head back against the door and slowly look around you, you're now in your own world, your real world. You unclench your fingers and you can feel the irritability leaving you. You can feel the anger start to flow from you and a feeling of peace starts to replace it. A warm fuzzy feeling starts to move through your body and you become very relaxed. You allow yourself a little smile as relief consumes you and you think to yourself how good it feels to once again be away from that awful atmosphere you were in such a short time ago. You think to yourself why should I feel so different now and then it dawns on you, once again you've escaped, once again you're back in the serenity and safety of your 'home', gee what a relief.

Now, does that tell you how I feel?

Kind Regards,

Sally.

[DonnaT]

For those of you who like your boy parts and have no desire whatsoever to transition, can you explain how being en femme and being en homme feels different?

Being enfemme, even partially, gives me a feeling of contentment that's not there when enhomme. A kind of Ahhh moment, like quenching your thirst with a nice cold drink.

Other than that, I can't think of any difference.

[Darth_Wolfenbarg]

For those of you who like your boy parts and have no desire whatsoever to transition, can you explain how being en femme and being en homme feels different?

Being enfemme, even partially, gives me a feeling of contentment that's not there when enhomme. A kind of Ahhh moment, like quenching your thirst with a nice cold drink.

Other than that, I can't think of any difference.

Yes. That's quite a good description. There are many ways your body tells you that you need to do something or shouldn't be doing something. Just like Donna said, it is like not drinking. It is something you have to do, and if you don't your body will start demanding it. Only instead of being dry, there is tension. Dressing just quenches that "thirst."

Perfect relation Donna!

[Georgia(SO)]

Thanks ya'll for participating. Still confused though, because what I was asking is how the male you feels different from the female you. Not the cross-dressed you, the *male* you v. the *female* you.

If I'm hearing most of you right, what you are saying is that the *male* you is always under some stress to step outside of the assigned gender roles and can't, as a male in our society. That the *male* you is not happy as a male. Ever? Does that mean that the female you is the dominant personality - the (for lack of a better word) *real* you and that the male part is just the package you came in?

Does anyone here actually like being male and just sort of escape into femmedome sometimes? But feels that the male part is the *real* you? Or is the *real* you a very definite mix of the two? Or do the two genders sit kind of side by side within you and you sorta slide from one to the other?

And, while I hear lots of you say that you get antsy and miserable when you need to dress, do any of you ever get antsy and miserable while en femme and need to return to en homme - not because of any outside forces but because it's time to be in guy mode again?

-g(so)

[Estefania]

Ah, that's the crux of the matter, then...

At least for me, there is no "male me" nor "female me". It is a "just me". So yes, the real me is a very definite mix of traits that people/society would call masculine/feminine. The clothes? They are pretty much external. As it would be the adjustment to the behavoir (as in how to walk/talk/etc.)

Mmm... the last part... while I don't find myself antsy and miserable when wanting to dress (even though it used to be like that years ago) yes, I have found myself somehow antsy and miserable after extended periods of being FT enfemme. Just these past weeks... After about 2 weeks FT enfemme, and when I still had 2 more weeks I could have spent enfemme... I just couldn't take it anymore, and had to get back to my 'simple life' and hang the heels for a while. However, I do recognize this is not a common feeling. (But in a large part because very few people has a chance to spend long periods of time FT enfemme to start with)

Gaby

[CJ]

Hi all,

Georgia,

Heh. I hate to do this to you, but I'm gonna bring semantics into the picture again.

This is a male:



(Caroline Cossey, transsexual actress)

When you say "the male you," Georgia, you're referring to our biological/genetic sex. In that sense, yes, of course, there is a "male me," just as there is a "female you." But I'm getting the sense that this isn't what you're referring to; I will always be male and you will always be female, no matter what we do with (and to) our bodies.

What you're really asking us is, "What is the difference between the 'masculine you' and the 'feminine you' (even if and when crossdressing isn't part of the equation)?" Male (or female) refers to the genes and genitals we were born with; masculine (or feminine) refers to the two poles that bookend the gender identity spectrum. For me, it's pretty simple: although there is, obviously, a male me (after all, it says so right on my birth certificate), there is no genuine masculine me. I say "genuine" because I've had to learn to pretend there is in order to survive in a world where people truly believe there are only two genders (and that those two genders must correspond to the two sexes deemed appropriate). I do not feel, and have never felt, that I was ever masculine in the way that a male whose gender identity is congruent with his genitals probably does (and I say "probably" because this congruency is an experience not open to me).

As social creatures, our biological sex often trumps gender; we relate to each other as males or females. But as individuals whose complex, intra-psychic life varies widely from one person to another, our gender often trumps our biological sex. When this intra-psychic life is quashed and battered for the sake of well-oiled social relations, we feel pressure build. And we suffer. For the sake of survival, any living being that suffers will actively seek escape from that pain. The three starkest options that offer themselves to gender-variant individuals in this regard are 1) to align their appearance and their preferred way of being related to (that is, the social component of their being) with their felt gender, regardless of the difficulties this may bring them, 2) drown their suffering in drug or alcohol addiction or any other means of "escape from self," and 3) end their own lives by quitting a world that has trouble making room for difference and diversity. Of course, there are other paths to choose from (and that are most certainly preferable to the latter two), but these are really tough to embark upon in any autonomous manner.

I hear people here, in this thread, who've referred to their crossdressing as an escape. For me, it's the opposite; it's actually an embracing of who I am, not an escaping from it. And when I say "who I am," I don't mean the male me, I mean the not-quite-masculine-yet-not-quite-feminine me. To answer part of your question, then, yes, it would be pointless for me to deny that the male me is the real me. Of course it is; I'm a person with a penis and XY genes. But, as a person--not as a biological/genetic entity--am I really reducible to a penis and XY genes? My entire life has been a struggle to answer this question in the negative.

I'll tell you, Georgia, who the "real me" is: a male, but not just a male; masculine, but not just masculine; French, but not just French; Canadian, but not just Canadian; educated, but not just educated; employed, but not just employed; a nature-lover, but not just a nature-lover; etc., but not just etc.

People, including gender-variant folks, are not reducible to this or that characteristic. Anyone who thinks so (and I'm not saying this is your case, Georgia) is socially, culturally, and psychologically blind.

Human beings are so frustrating sometimes; they (we) are capable of such lofty and noble achievements and thoughts--witness Shakespeare's Hamlet: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy," Act 1 Scene 5)--and yet we persist in trying to "cut up" the world into bite-sized, easily digestible morsels. The belief that there are two, and only two, genders is a prime example of this. And if you talk to any intersexed person, you'll see that this applies not only to gender but to biological sex as well.

I know you're trying to "wrap your head" around this, Georgia, and kudos to you (and anyone else who tries) for doing so! But the current state of gender is to tradition what quantum physics are to classical, Newtonian physics; it's (r)evolutionary--a totally new way of looking at who we are and what our place is in the "grand scheme of things."

Finally, to answer your question on an even more personal note: even though, as I said above, there is a male me, there's no such thing, in my case, as a masculine me, over and above (or under and below) which there is also a feminine me. There's just, well, me. And this me suffers when locked up into a destructive binary gender logic.

This, by the way, is a fascinating thread, Georgia. Again, thanks for putting this out there! And, yes, thanks also to all who participate!

Love,
CJ

[Absaroka]

Gerogia this is a wonderful thread. Thanks so much for starting it.

Lots of different themes and answers and I think it has to do with crossdressing being a manifestation of a number of very different things.

To answer one of your questions yes sometimes I get totally fed up with womens clothes and just want to wear male ones. Or wear less than women normally do, especially in the summer when it is hot.

I don't relate to other people en femme or go out publicly so how the rest of the world relates to me is not a factor.

I don't feel I have a femme and homme side. There is just one of me.

What it feels like I think I can best describe is that my femme clothes are giving me a hug when I wear them. Often there is a sexual component to this. Fetish is the word that says it best. But there is something else too. THe sensuality of the fabric, the way some womens clothes move with your body in a way that mens do not. THere is comfort, both physical and emotional, in my femme clothes. even when they are just womens sleeveless teeshirts.

The other thing that I feel, and I have posted about this recently elsewhere so I appologize for repeating myself, is retreat. Dressing is a retreat into myself, into fantasy and pretend, into joyfull solitude. I went for another walk in the park the other night en femme. Does the moon over a field look different when you are wearing a skirt and sandals? Maybe not but something inside me looks at it differently. My mind roams further into pretend. The field more easily becomes a windswept mountain plateau. The empty building more easily becomes a ruined castle.

And then there is the joke, the joy of secrecy. My little secret that I have kept from the world. My way of getting over on everyone. If only the park currator knew that a warrior princess from a far off land was drifting across the moors past the haunted castle on an unknowable quest. All in this mundane park. I used to need to use drugs to get there. Now all I need is a skirt, panties, bra, sandals and tunic.

Why do I need to retreat into fantasy so much? I don't know but it's more fun than golf.......Apologies to any golfers out there.

Absaroka

[DonnaT]

Thanks ya'll for participating. Still confused though, because what I was asking is how the male you feels different from the female you. Not the cross-dressed you, the *male* you v. the *female* you.

I don't have a female me.

If I'm hearing most of you right, what you are saying is that the *male* you is always under some stress to step outside of the assigned gender roles and can't, as a male in our society. That the *male* you is not happy as a male. Ever? Does that mean that the female you is the dominant personality - the (for lack of a better word) *real* you and that the male part is just the package you came in?

I wouldn't say I was always under some stress to step out of my assigned gender. Of course, if I am unable to dress in some time, there is some stress, but nowadays I am pretty much able to dress as I like. Which may consist of something like a cami top as the only outer fem garment. If I feel I need more then I might choose a skirt or pantyhose, etc.

Does anyone here actually like being male and just sort of escape into femmedome sometimes? But feels that the male part is the *real* you? Or is the *real* you a very definite mix of the two? Or do the two genders sit kind of side by side within you and you sorta slide from one to the other?

Am I happy as a male? Yes. It's not really about being female vs male. Now if you asked me to select a gender identity, then I would hope there was an optional choice to select "trans"i.e., a mix of the two, instead of just a choice between male and female, . And if there was no such choice, I would select male.

And, while I hear lots of you say that you get antsy and miserable when you need to dress, do any of you ever get antsy and miserable while en femme and need to return to en homme - not because of any outside forces but because it's time to be in guy mode again?

Can't say as I ever have. Could be because I've never experienced a prolonged period of time enfemme, but couldn't say for sure.

[KimberlyS]

Georgia, this is a great topic and sorry for getting into it a bit delayed. I feel a need to throw in my two cents here because I am a bit different than many here, at least the vocal ones. I do hope that I do not confuse you even more. But I guess I will just farther illistrate the spectrum of CDers.

I am similar to DonnaT by the fact that I do feel I am male and do not really feel I have a feminine side, even thought at times I may state something like that in other posts to get a different point or understanding across. It does not matter if I am all male in work clothes, tool belt and power tools, or in a very feminine in a nice skirt, blouse, undergarment, heels, wig, and makeup; I always feel like my male self. And yes I do feel either more masculine or feminine depending on what I am wearing... but always my male self. It actually really made me think during one of my full femme outings as I was dressed up and out standing in the middle of a club in KC. I was enjoying myself, I was being accepted by those around me and I know I was not passing but looked a decent feminine presentation. But I was not feeling like a woman or girly like so many others had said. I was feeling a bit feminine, but the true thing I was feeling was a sense of peace with myself, a calm and relaxation, a no worries, rest of the world put on hold type of feeling. To quote DonnaT, I get an "Ahhh moment" out of it.

So since that point I have been all over the place with my who I am, but I have settled down now, and I believe that I am:

-- A mostly physically male person, with some female physical attributes.
-- I have many male and female mental attrbutes/characteristics, most of which are from the male to the middle of the gender spectrum and some from the female side of the spectrum.

If you want to know more on my thoughts about the physical and gender spectrums PM me.

And to make me even more complicated, I can and do dress in a variety of different modes and get a variety of "Ahhh moment" out of it.

I can chat online for 15 minutes and feel the 2 hours I had to dress three weeks ago has been enought for me. Or chat for 4 hours and feel the weekend I had was not near enought time.

I can often just wear panties or "underdress" in some way and feel very content and happy. Other times not.

I can get a night, day or a weekend home alone and most of the time have a relaxing and enjoyable time, very relaxed and come out refreshed. While at times it just makes me feel like someone behind bars wanting to get out.

So I guess I am kind of like a moving target. But I do know how I am feeling at the time, stress level both home and work, my mental todo list for both work and home, what is going on and busy level of my family, and how my wife and I are currently getting along all feed into the amount of "Ahhh moment" factor I get and weather it is enough. Like a complex math formula.

To sum this up and give a more generalized answer, first the TG person needs to begin to know themself first and then it becomes what they need to get that "Ahhh moment" of this is me or this is what I need. This "Ahhh moment" may be a feeling of relaxation, getting away, becoming your feminine self, alining your body with your brain...... each of us TG persons will be different.

KimberlyS - CD

[Sally]

Well Georgia, when you ask is the male part just the package you came in, then for me personally that is about it in a nut shell. I suppose I could put it as the male part being just a life support system for 'her'.
I fully realise that biologically I fill most of the physical requirements which put me in the male category, but I couldn't say that the 'real' me was ever in sync with that part of me.

Putting it another way, I can say that the times in my life where I've had to 'act out' the male role have never felt as good as the times I spend in a female role. I can handle the responsibilities which come with being female far better than I can handle the male ones, if that makes any sense to you. I can't remember any times where I could say that I was happier in a male role than a female one. I suppose throughout my life I've had to sit the two genders side by side, albeit the female one was always the dominant, but having taken on the responsibility of marriage and children I then had to live up to all the responsibilities which come with those decisions. I have never had any regrets about my marriage or having children, but I would venture to suggest that the guilt I've carried and still carry by not being able to give 100% to being a male figurehead in the roles of husband and father, far outweigh any guilt which I've been made to feel over the years through being transgendered ( for want of a better word).

The times which require me to return to en homme give me no joy whatsoever. It gives me the same feeling as one would get when being forced to go to a place which you despised being at. I suppose the next thing which people ask is that if the feelings are so strong then why don't I complete my transition. As I've said here before, the reasons I have decided to halt my transition just short of completion include the fact that my wife says that she can live with the stage I'm at, but she can give no gaurantees of how she would feel if I went all the way. After a long period of struggling with all the decisions which come with a situation such as that, I decided that the risk/reward was not in my favour. I love her too dearly and need her too much to risk her walking away, even though she says she could never stop loving me, but I know having to live with that situation oif being apart would be more than I could bear.

So, getting back to your original question, the male me feels different to the female me simply because male doesn't feel 'right'. It's like putting on a pair of shoes which doesn't quite fit, you just know they're uncomfortable and you couldn't be happy wearing them for any length of time and the longer you wore them the more uncomfortable it'd get. It's hard to give specifics as the feeling doesn't come with things like headaches, physical pain or a drumming in the ears etc, it's simply an overall mental and psychological feeling that 'I shouldn't be here', it's not right, male makes me just feel uncomfortable is the best way I can put it. It always has since puberty and even though I've tried my darndest over the years, it's the same as the colour of my skin, nothing ever washes it away.

To finish up, I'd like to say that I'm not like many other people as I don't see this as a gift. I would have preferred never to have been born this way because I feel I've been robbed of a lot of valuable time in my life which could have been used for making my life, and the lives of others close to me more productive, happier and fulfilled. It's caused so much trauma in my life and the lives of people I love. People look at me and see a smiling face and say how happy I look, but the dials outwardly may be showing all is well, but the engine room has it's moments, so to speak. I say this because being the person I am I've had to devote so much of my life dealing with forces pulling me this way or that way, so many mental pressures, dealing with sneers and rejection, so many down times and such a large percentage of my life passed me by before I could successfully integrate and manage 'him' and 'her', and in some ways that still goes on, although I've become very adept at concealing any down time which may invade me.

We learn to put on a brave front for the sake of those we love, but even though we may learn to manage our situation, dealing with the two genders still causes hiccups from time to time. If it was as simple as just throwing on a dress from time to time for kicks, then simply taking it off and being able to dismiss it from my mind until next time, then life would be a breeze.
Unfortunately in my case it's much more complicated than that because 'she's' the boss, she's with me 24/7 and she does get very antsy if the time and need comes to be in guy mode even for a very short time. It's impossible to change our birth blueprint, we never asked to be born this way but that's how it is, so we have to learn to manage it as best we can.

Kind Regards,

Sally.

[Virginia]

Wow!!! Impressive!!! But I would have expected nothing less from my sisters.
I hope I can state my feelings without being drug off to the woodshed ----AGAIN!
First, thanks CJ, but I do feel the need to clarify my "theory" that "we may be the next phase in human evolution." From this girl's vantage point, the desire or need to dress has absolutely nothing to do with my feelings about that. It is simply the ability of a male or female to be able to experience, feel, understand and express any, some, or all of the "aspects" of the gender opposite theirs! It is not a learned behavior!
Jeannie and my other sisters who are on this continuum - that seems to be an acceptable definition for the variations and diversity of crossdressers. Each being at some place, hopefully a comfortable place, on this continium with the understanding that no place is any better or worse than any other!
I AM NOT A GUY IN A DRESS!!!!!!!
I am nowhere as articulate as many of my sisters. I only know who I am and, in deference to my SO whom I love and is trying desperately to understand all of this - Virginia seems to be taking more and more of my "balance." But she is doing it with style and grace and it is not taking me as a person out of the balance that I am achieving.
Sally, I understand where you are coming from as to this "gift." BUT to me it is a gift. A wonderful, beautiful, useful, awe-inspiring gift. A gift that I am learning to share more and more every day. The empathy, caring, understanding, listening, touching that I am able to share with my fellow mankind every day speaks volumes to me in the responses I get. It is wonderful. One of my sisters took me to task for saying this in that she said "well guys can have those characteristics too!" and she is right -- maybe they are crossdressers, too???????????????
I keep picking up bits and pieces from my life, little things that I did that now tell me yes, I was born with this gift and like a lot of us did not recognize it, repressed it , supressed it, over compensated for it until in my case it seems that she finally said, "enough is enough, you need me you big dumb lumox!" and my life has changed, and I would not change it back even if I could. I love the things that Virginia brings into my life. The feminine aspects I admire, the gentleness, caring, loving, sharing, hell, I cry at almost anything now and it feels wonderful!!!!!
How do I explain my competitive nature?? I have no idea. When I step on that platform to lift weights my attitude is simply 'if you are dumb enough to show up and think you can move more iron than I can, you really are dumb!' The beauty of that is I can sense Virginia - in my mind, in my body - I just sense her there supporting me, urging me on, cheering for me, it is, I guess, impossible to explain.
How does a college football player, a Naval Aviator, a World Champion Powerlifter, convert to a caregiver for a 72 year old lady? I do everything for her, bathing, showering, bathroom, make-up, feeding, dressing, and I (Virginia) love doing it!!!!!!! How many "guys" can do it and if they could would enjoy doing it - it is just not a guy thing. I know some would dispute that but the proof is there, it is not something that "guys" seek out to do or would do!!!
Sex! Yes, sex! I have been given female orgasms! I have explained to three different, unbiased GG's what I felt and all they could do was look at me, nod their heads, smile, and say, "that's it! you go, girl!" You can believe what you may but I am the one that experienced it, I know what I felt, and it was beautiful!
I don't know if this answers the heart of the question, I don't know if any of us can, I only know how I feel -- I have balance in my live -- I have an SO who loves me = male and female. She may not understand it, but she feels fortunate to have someone who can express both sides of this mirror, if you will.
For me, I love Virginia unconditionally and she loves me and we will hold hands and continue on enjoying our "Magical Mystery Tour!"
Love you all,
Virginia

[Jeannie]

I like reading all these posts. We are all very differant and that's great. It's quite simple for me. I never liked being a man and never considered myself one and hate referring to myself as a man. If people call me Mister ----- I always say "That was my Father." If you don't go with the flow people, you'll drown. I've been gasping for air my whole life. Enough is enough. No more. Hugs

Love
Jeannie

[Georgia(SO)]

Wow... ya'll are fabulous... what an openness you all have shown in answering a really tough essay question.

I think maybe I need to expand on something that CJ said. Semantics are just semantics, but we use them to express so much that everyone needs to be on the same page with them.

So, re: male v female, masculine v. feminine.... To me, a non-gender variant person, the terms masculine and feminine cover a specific range of societally-ordered behaviors, as well as the feeling I get while doing them. Male or female, to me, and within myself, not only defines my physical self, but my self-identification. Simply put, I am always female, but I am not always feminine while being so.

Masculine/feminine, to me, describes a surface-level, or slightly sub-surface level, set of behaviors. And to me, there is no feminine me without a masculine counterpoint - no masculine without a feminine counterpoint. It's like black v. white (the colors, not the people) - it is the stark differences between the two which make them visible. Femininity, to me, is a social construct, and is wrapped up in the sexuality/sensuality continuum. (OK... gg's, jump in here anytime, because I can feel a trip to Virginia's woodshed coming on...).

Briefly put, I feel feminine when I put on a pair of take-no-prisoners-heels, strut out into the world and there's usually some sort of saucy attitude going on with it. Do I feel feminine when hollering for the Dallas Cowboys to finally get their game going again? No. Do I feel female while doing that? Of course. I feel female all the time, every waking moment, and all of the sleeping ones too. Do I feel masculine hollering for the Cowboys? No, not really. It is, to me, neither a masculine/feminine thing. It's just me hollering for the Cowboys.

Feeling feminine, to me, has nothing to do with caring, openness, caregiving, etc. And I don't feel feminine when I'm cleaning the bathtub or doing the laundry. It is a fleeting thing, this feeling feminine - something that comes with the situation I'm in, how I relate to a man, whether he's a lover or a co-worker or a client, and no, I never *feel* feminine (or even think about it for that matter) when I'm relating to another gg. And I don't always feel feminine in every interaction with a man. It is a fleeting, flirtatious, way of approaching the world.

But feeling female... I always feel female. I wouldn't know any other way of feeling. It is who I am - not just biologically but pyschologically. So, when I asked you to explain the difference between the parts of you that feel male and the parts of you that feel female, I was sorta asking that. Most of us can only feel one or the other. Most of us only look at the world through one set of eyes, one set of mental constructs, one gender identification. But for those of you who have both gender identifications, I was wondering what the difference was.

Absaroka put it in an interesting way -

The other thing that I feel, and I have posted about this recently elsewhere so I appologize for repeating myself, is retreat. Dressing is a retreat into myself, into fantasy and pretend, into joyfull solitude. I went for another walk in the park the other night en femme. Does the moon over a field look different when you are wearing a skirt and sandals? Maybe not but something inside me looks at it differently. My mind roams further into pretend. The field more easily becomes a windswept mountain plateau. The empty building more easily becomes a ruined castle.

That something inside you looks at things differently - the male side and the female side look at things differently. That's where I was going with this question. So, based on Absaroka's answer, I will then ask, has society so constrained males that they cannot easily slip into imagining things? Into Absaroka's moon-looks-different world of pretend. Has society so constrained males, as a whole (disclaimer, disclaimer) that they are not comfortable with poetry, with beautiful music, with whatever is defined as feminine in that odd boy-world ya'll were raised in.

I'll say it right here, to eliminate any confusion. I'm not asking if that constraint is what causes you to cross-dress. I'm not really interested in the clothes that you put on your bodies. I'm much more interested in the person wearing those clothes. Nor am I looking for you to defend your need to put on those clothes. I am, mostly, just curious about what true multi-genderism feels like - how it feels in your mind when you look out at the world. Whether one side of you relates to the world one way and the other side relates to the world another way.

I also recognize that I am asking you to define something that is almost indefineable.

-g(so) - an anthropologist hiding under the guise of a writer...