Sorry for the self pity title to this post, but I am just really not sure what I am anymore..........
Back ground:
I am a cross dresser, been so since I was 12 or 13.
I am married, been so since I was 21.
Been "out" to my wife since I was 32 or 33
She found out, I did not confess.
I am for the most part a "normal" man..... I work on my car (to keep it running and getting me to work), I fix things around the house when they go bad. I belch when it is needed.........
I have problems dealing with my cross-dressing. I feel embarrassed by it, I feel ashamed of it, I feel it is the cause of everything "bad" and "wrong" in my life......... I feel it makes my beautiful wife sad and troubled, kind of like she has to "grin and bear it"....
I feel this even though I haven't "dressed" in MANY months.... I have totally shut off this portion on me for reasons I am not sure.....
A little more background..... I do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING I can do for my wife, she is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing in my life.... I try to always be there for her....... If she wants or needs something I make sure it happens..... My support is always there for her.... FOR REAL... I may be delusional, but I totally believe I am ALWAYS there for my wife, unconditionally.......... Without question or judgment........ ALWAYS THERE FOR HER. I really don’t feel the same coming back to me……………………………………………… Many periods, means…. frustration
But I am the "sick pervert" that has "lied and hidden" from her.... I am the one that has totally destroyed the trust in our relationship......
More background for you.... MY WIFE HAS LIED TOO.... she has done things and LIED about them......... She has STABBED me in the back, she has tried very hard to cover it up and I am NEVER ALLOWED to mention it...........
Cause I am the SICK PERVERT.........
This just is not right.... I always am there for my wife, she is never there for me... she says things that are untrue about me, she acts so "caring" and "understanding" to others, but to me it is just blind indifference and coldness.... I can’t get the time of day from my wife…. But I still keep being there for her… so back to my choice of topic title….”Am I so Bad?????”
I AM TOTALLY SICK OF IT........
Am I so bad?????
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Shannon
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Jessie
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Loretta Ann
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Hi Shannon,
I to am not sure what to say here. Mostly due to the fact that there has been much said here on this issue. And I wonder if repeating some of it will be of any help to you?
The one thing that appears to stand out here (to me) is that perhaps you are not able to be there for yourself. Your statement:
There may be some wisdom taking a more serious look at this part of it. As it appears (from what you have said) that it is you who thinks that you are that bad person.
Good luck with your struggle.
Love Darlene.
I to am not sure what to say here. Mostly due to the fact that there has been much said here on this issue. And I wonder if repeating some of it will be of any help to you?
The one thing that appears to stand out here (to me) is that perhaps you are not able to be there for yourself. Your statement:
IMO supports this.I have problems dealing with my cross-dressing. I feel embarrassed by it, I feel ashamed of it, I feel it is the cause of everything "bad" and "wrong" in my life......... I feel it makes my beautiful wife sad and troubled, kind of like she has to "grin and bear it"....
There may be some wisdom taking a more serious look at this part of it. As it appears (from what you have said) that it is you who thinks that you are that bad person.
Is it not you who you are fighting against?I feel this even though I haven't "dressed" in MANY months.... I have totally shut off this portion on me for reasons I am not sure....
Good luck with your struggle.
Love Darlene.
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RobynP
- New Member
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Re: Am I so bad?????
Shannon,
Your posting really struck a deep chord in me. You are travelling a path similiar to mine (and many others) based on the details you have shared.
The answer to this is simple. DON'T KEEP SCORE. You ARE supposed to be there for your wife. PERIOD. Isn't that what you said on your wedding day? To expect something in return is very corrosive to a relationship because it eats away at its very core. When one stops keeping score, the frustration (and the stress and the anxiety) disappears.
How does one go about starting work on these? First, I recommend that both of you need to travel back in time to when you were dating and engaged. There had to have been some magic, some chemistry going on between you causing you to make the promise of a lifetime to each other. Second, you will need a neutral 3rd party to facilitate the work that needs to be done. Find a darn good therapist for both joint and individual counselling. Don't use this board as a neutral 3rd party.
It will be a long and sometimes difficult and painful journey. You need to keep your focus on the end result: a happy, exciting, HEALTHY, committed relationship.
Finally, at times during this journey you may be considering other alternatives. I caution you that ANY other alternatives may seem better to you but, in reality, are significantly WORSE in every respect. I speak from LOTS of experience....
I truly understand the depths of anger and frustration and hurt that you are experiencing. It DOES get better once you unlock the locks that are causing these problems. But don't look for the keys for these locks in your hands.... Check with your wife as she has the keys for your locks.... and you have hers....
Your posting really struck a deep chord in me. You are travelling a path similiar to mine (and many others) based on the details you have shared.
Why? Have you been arrested because of it? Lost your job? Is it because you are a "normal guy" and "normal guys" don't wear dresses?Shannon wrote:I feel embarrassed by it, I feel ashamed of it, I feel it is the cause of everything "bad" and "wrong" in my life.........
Have you discussed this with her? Has she TOLD you it makes her sad and troubled? or are you presuming this? What is the matter with "grin and bear it"? Has she kicked you out of the house? of of bed?Shannon wrote: I feel it makes my beautiful wife sad and troubled, kind of like she has to "grin and bear it"....
Isn't this what husbands are supposed to do??? Is this what "normal guys" do??Shannon wrote:I do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING I can do for my wife, she is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing in my life.... I try to always be there for her....... If she wants or needs something I make sure it happens..... My support is always there for her.... FOR REAL... I may be delusional, but I totally believe I am ALWAYS there for my wife, unconditionally.......... Without question or judgment........ ALWAYS THERE FOR HER.
But here is sounds like this is some sort of game and you are keeping score.... Isn't that what us normal guys do? We always want to score the most points, be the winner at our game...."As we go to commercial break, the score is 21-0 in favor of the wife..." It is frustrating when one is keeping score and losing. I know... I had a huge scorecard... But marriage ISN"T a game and we have to get past the "I need to win cause I'm not a loser" mentality.Shannon wrote: I really don’t feel the same coming back to me……………………………………………… Many periods, means…. frustration
The answer to this is simple. DON'T KEEP SCORE. You ARE supposed to be there for your wife. PERIOD. Isn't that what you said on your wedding day? To expect something in return is very corrosive to a relationship because it eats away at its very core. When one stops keeping score, the frustration (and the stress and the anxiety) disappears.
I think we can all agree that crossdressing comes with an incredible amount of baggage. The issue of trust in a relationship is key as without trust, how can one continue to share their heart, their soul, their innermost being?Shannon wrote: But I am the "sick pervert" that has "lied and hidden" from her.... I am the one that has totally destroyed the trust in our relationship......
I am sure you are sick of it. It sounds like there are a number of relationship issues that need work, a LOT of work for both of you:Shannon wrote:But I still keep being there for her… so back to my choice of topic title….”Am I so Bad?????”
I AM TOTALLY SICK OF IT........
- 1. Rebuilding of Trust
2. Reestablishing honest Communication
3. Restoring Self-Esteem
How does one go about starting work on these? First, I recommend that both of you need to travel back in time to when you were dating and engaged. There had to have been some magic, some chemistry going on between you causing you to make the promise of a lifetime to each other. Second, you will need a neutral 3rd party to facilitate the work that needs to be done. Find a darn good therapist for both joint and individual counselling. Don't use this board as a neutral 3rd party.
It will be a long and sometimes difficult and painful journey. You need to keep your focus on the end result: a happy, exciting, HEALTHY, committed relationship.
Finally, at times during this journey you may be considering other alternatives. I caution you that ANY other alternatives may seem better to you but, in reality, are significantly WORSE in every respect. I speak from LOTS of experience....
I truly understand the depths of anger and frustration and hurt that you are experiencing. It DOES get better once you unlock the locks that are causing these problems. But don't look for the keys for these locks in your hands.... Check with your wife as she has the keys for your locks.... and you have hers....
Robyn P.
--> just a plain sig <--
--> just a plain sig <--
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Elizabeth
- Miss Ruby Goddess
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Hi Shannon,
I did get a sense of the "pity party" thing when I read your topic. However having read it, I relate to a lot of the things that you say. I have lived them.
I lived in guilt and shame for years as I too was called "sick", or "sick pervert". Where I could lose any argument at anytime with the few simple words. "perhaps your brother would like to know you wear panties?".
What you are talking about in my opinion, is allowing someone else to define you. You are not a sick pervert because someone says you are. That is just thier opinion. And in some cases it is not even a real opinion, but a tool of manipulation.
I would like to stress that I am not making an accusing statement, just pointing out that some people will use our weaknesses against us, and that has to be taken into consideration.
But in the end it is how we define ourselves that matters. For instance, if someone called you a fat pig, it probably would not bother you, because you know you are not overweight. Just the same, once you believe that you are not "sick" or a "sick pervert", than no one can hurt you by saying those things.
In the end, it is up to you to accept yourself. Once you have accepted yourself, than you will insist that others do, or they just simply will not be able to be close to you.
You are a pretty intellingent person, it is obvious. So I am sure you have considered all this. That is why you are always trying to please your wife. I have been there too. Before me and my ex split, I did all the cleaning, cooking, shopping, laundry. All she had to do was go to work. I thought if I did everything for her, it would give her a reason so accept me. Because she would need me.
It appears you are finding out what I found out. They are glad to take what you are willing to give. They can always say they never asked you to. And because of this, they don't feel obligated to reciprocate, by accepting you. In fact, I beleive I was resented for trying to buy acceptance. I cant say that for certain, just that, that was the perception I got.
Shannon, You don't have to feel bad one more day. It really is your choice. You can wake up on anyday, and say "I am a good person and I will not listen to anyone who says anything to the contrary". And you can really do it. But before you can, you have to say to yourself "I accept what I am, and I did not choose it, I can't change it, and wouldn't if i could ".
No one is ever going to accept you as long as you don't accept yourself. As long as you act ashamed of who you are, others will also. I have found that being proud of who I am, and what I am, has given people a reason to accept me and like me. I believe you will find the same thing to be true.
Love always,
Elizabeth
I did get a sense of the "pity party" thing when I read your topic. However having read it, I relate to a lot of the things that you say. I have lived them.
I lived in guilt and shame for years as I too was called "sick", or "sick pervert". Where I could lose any argument at anytime with the few simple words. "perhaps your brother would like to know you wear panties?".
What you are talking about in my opinion, is allowing someone else to define you. You are not a sick pervert because someone says you are. That is just thier opinion. And in some cases it is not even a real opinion, but a tool of manipulation.
I would like to stress that I am not making an accusing statement, just pointing out that some people will use our weaknesses against us, and that has to be taken into consideration.
But in the end it is how we define ourselves that matters. For instance, if someone called you a fat pig, it probably would not bother you, because you know you are not overweight. Just the same, once you believe that you are not "sick" or a "sick pervert", than no one can hurt you by saying those things.
In the end, it is up to you to accept yourself. Once you have accepted yourself, than you will insist that others do, or they just simply will not be able to be close to you.
You are a pretty intellingent person, it is obvious. So I am sure you have considered all this. That is why you are always trying to please your wife. I have been there too. Before me and my ex split, I did all the cleaning, cooking, shopping, laundry. All she had to do was go to work. I thought if I did everything for her, it would give her a reason so accept me. Because she would need me.
It appears you are finding out what I found out. They are glad to take what you are willing to give. They can always say they never asked you to. And because of this, they don't feel obligated to reciprocate, by accepting you. In fact, I beleive I was resented for trying to buy acceptance. I cant say that for certain, just that, that was the perception I got.
Shannon, You don't have to feel bad one more day. It really is your choice. You can wake up on anyday, and say "I am a good person and I will not listen to anyone who says anything to the contrary". And you can really do it. But before you can, you have to say to yourself "I accept what I am, and I did not choose it, I can't change it, and wouldn't if i could ".
No one is ever going to accept you as long as you don't accept yourself. As long as you act ashamed of who you are, others will also. I have found that being proud of who I am, and what I am, has given people a reason to accept me and like me. I believe you will find the same thing to be true.
Love always,
Elizabeth
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Loretta Ann
- Permanently Banned
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- Location: Vancouver, Canada
Elizabeth,
I enjoy your posts there is usually a lot of good food for thought in them. and this one is no exception. There is one thing you said that I would like to elaborate on.
At its best it breeds resentment on the part of the receiver as it amounts to nothing more or less than manipulation. (an attempt to control) and it also results in the feeling that you felt like you were resented for trying to buy acceptance. And rightly so IMO.
Love Darlene.
I enjoy your posts there is usually a lot of good food for thought in them. and this one is no exception. There is one thing you said that I would like to elaborate on.
I have found that acceptance needs to come from and is a result of ones security. If one lacks security there is nothing you can do that would make it possible for them to accept you, No matter what you might be able to do for them. Acceptance is something that one needs to be able and willing to give unconditionally, or not at all. As anything less comes with baggage that includes I did for you now you must do for me. It comes with a hidden price tag, that those who see it are not willing to pay.I thought if I did everything for her, it would give her a reason so accept me. It appears you are finding out what I found out. They are glad to take what you are willing to give. They can always say they never asked you to. And because of this, they don't feel obligated to reciprocate, by accepting you. In fact, I believe I was resented for trying to buy acceptance. I cant say that for certain, just that, that was the perception I got.
At its best it breeds resentment on the part of the receiver as it amounts to nothing more or less than manipulation. (an attempt to control) and it also results in the feeling that you felt like you were resented for trying to buy acceptance. And rightly so IMO.
Love Darlene.
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DonnaT
- Miss Great Goddess
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- Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:04 am
- Location: No. Virginia
Am I so bad????? NO YOU ARE NOT!!!!
Shannon, I'm going to do something here I rarely do, because your post is quite troublesome. And I believe in being honest.
One day you write:
It seems that somewhere, the communication has broken down, on both sides, and you wrote the foregoing for your wife to read in hopes of getting a reaction. This forum, according to your "happy place" statement, is not the place for this.
Last weekend my wife and I had a BIG fight, which I mentioned in this forum. However, I did not write any more than that. That was private and best not aired in public.
Since the communication appears broke, I would like to suggest keeping a journal on your computer. One where you can write your feelings and she can write her's.
Now, to be fair, you have written:
Now, regarding the thread topic, I think the other responses are spot on.
A crossdresser, tranvestite or transexual has to learn to accept themselves before they can expect acceptance from anyone else.
One day you write:
Then, contrary to your "happy place" statement, you write:Shannon wrote:It has long been a problem of mine to make this forum a happy place for all...... but it has always been my desire.
Shannon wrote: I always am there for my wife, she is never there for me... she says things that are untrue about me, she acts so "caring" and "understanding" to others, but to me it is just blind indifference and coldness.... I can’t get the time of day from my wife…. But I still keep being there for her…
It is clear to me that you love your wife even more than you love yourself. So I don't understand why you wrote that, even though you are feeling it. I think it would be better written in a journal, not here.Shannon wrote: More background for you.... MY WIFE HAS LIED TOO.... she has done things and LIED about them......... She has STABBED me in the back, she has tried very hard to cover it up and I am NEVER ALLOWED to mention it...........
It seems that somewhere, the communication has broken down, on both sides, and you wrote the foregoing for your wife to read in hopes of getting a reaction. This forum, according to your "happy place" statement, is not the place for this.
Last weekend my wife and I had a BIG fight, which I mentioned in this forum. However, I did not write any more than that. That was private and best not aired in public.
Since the communication appears broke, I would like to suggest keeping a journal on your computer. One where you can write your feelings and she can write her's.
Now, to be fair, you have written:
andShannon wrote:I have a tremendous overwhelming intense feeling of love for my wife. She is the BEST thing that has ever happened to me....
Shannon wrote:you are are second to my wife.... sorry to all but she is really great....
Now, regarding the thread topic, I think the other responses are spot on.
A crossdresser, tranvestite or transexual has to learn to accept themselves before they can expect acceptance from anyone else.
DonnaT
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Kay(SO)
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It seems as though all of the responses here have been from CD'rs so I'll take a huge risk and stick my neck out there. And I'll apologize right up front since I already know that what I write will piss some people off... 
Shannon, I have to tell you first of all that I was really disappointed in your response to my topic about the "workboot being on the other foot."
The fact that you simply couldn't allow yourself to stop focusing on YOU for one second said alot to me about you and where you're at right now. You ARE on the pity pot and screaming for validation and that's okay, however you are pooping all over Sharon to get it. I think if you go back and read some of what other's have written you will see how many people do validate your feelings and existence as a man and CD'r, as a friend, etc...
Those who have pointed out that it's important to accept yourself first are right on target. How can you expect anyone else to accept you as you are, if you yourself struggle with this? If you KNEW that you aren't a terrible person, would you be asking the question? Probably not.
Okay, now for the biggest risk.
Would it be possible for you to get some therapeutic help for your self-esteem and self-acceptance issues as well as your ability to communicate with your wife? If you love her the way you say you do it would seem to me that you would be willing to go to any lengths to help yourself and your relationship. Perhaps couples counseling for the communication issues. It's been my experience that it's difficult to be around people who are always asking, "why me or what about me?" It gets tiresome and I know for myself pushes me away.
I am already anticipating a response such as, "why can't SHE be the one to do whatever it takes to make our relationship work?" Part of why I suggest an outside mediator is so that you can find some balance in your relationship and that you don't feel so jipped.
Something else I've noticed here is that those who have self-acceptance, whether their wives/SO's accept them or not are the ones who are at peace with themselves. Your posts sound so beligerant and angry. I'm just wondering who it is you're really angry with or at? The main ingrediant I keep hearing that is missing in your relationship is compassion. Compassion for each other's positions.
Okay, enough said. Go ahead and blow me out of the water,
as I'm expecting that too. It's hard to be honest with someone when they are in the place you're in without pissing them off more. I do hope that you and Sharon get the help that you so obviously need. By the way, my husband and I are in therapy for similiar reasons. He struggles with self-acceptance too and we have the most difficult time communicating and understanding each other about everything, not just CDing. I wish you the best,
Kay(SO)
Shannon, I have to tell you first of all that I was really disappointed in your response to my topic about the "workboot being on the other foot."
The fact that you simply couldn't allow yourself to stop focusing on YOU for one second said alot to me about you and where you're at right now. You ARE on the pity pot and screaming for validation and that's okay, however you are pooping all over Sharon to get it. I think if you go back and read some of what other's have written you will see how many people do validate your feelings and existence as a man and CD'r, as a friend, etc... Those who have pointed out that it's important to accept yourself first are right on target. How can you expect anyone else to accept you as you are, if you yourself struggle with this? If you KNEW that you aren't a terrible person, would you be asking the question? Probably not.
Okay, now for the biggest risk.
Would it be possible for you to get some therapeutic help for your self-esteem and self-acceptance issues as well as your ability to communicate with your wife? If you love her the way you say you do it would seem to me that you would be willing to go to any lengths to help yourself and your relationship. Perhaps couples counseling for the communication issues. It's been my experience that it's difficult to be around people who are always asking, "why me or what about me?" It gets tiresome and I know for myself pushes me away. I am already anticipating a response such as, "why can't SHE be the one to do whatever it takes to make our relationship work?" Part of why I suggest an outside mediator is so that you can find some balance in your relationship and that you don't feel so jipped.
Something else I've noticed here is that those who have self-acceptance, whether their wives/SO's accept them or not are the ones who are at peace with themselves. Your posts sound so beligerant and angry. I'm just wondering who it is you're really angry with or at? The main ingrediant I keep hearing that is missing in your relationship is compassion. Compassion for each other's positions.
Okay, enough said. Go ahead and blow me out of the water,
as I'm expecting that too. It's hard to be honest with someone when they are in the place you're in without pissing them off more. I do hope that you and Sharon get the help that you so obviously need. By the way, my husband and I are in therapy for similiar reasons. He struggles with self-acceptance too and we have the most difficult time communicating and understanding each other about everything, not just CDing. I wish you the best,Kay(SO)
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Sinjoy(SO)
- Miss Sapphire Goddess
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:39 am
- Location: Canada
OUCH!!!
Dear Shannon,
OWCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That one hurt.
I'm going to apologize in advance.... but I have to say something..
I know this is your site, and I have in the past and will continue to thank you for it. That being said....owch, the post was a little harsh, don't ya think??
I understand that you are upset/angry/sad/feel alone. but to bash your wife like that??
I realise that I take a lot of things from the side of the SO, but wow, had you talked to her about any of this BEFORE you told the world?? Did you at least let her read it before sending it out?
You say she doesn't listen to you, do you to her? what about setting some guidlines ( no name calling ect.). What about a nutral third party? a therepist? a marraige councler?
Please correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like there is a lot more going on, on your side of the computer screen that what you said. I believe strongly in privacy, and would never ask you to explain, only to think about it. Maybe, the CDing issue is just a convenent smoke screen for what is really going through your mind.
I believe you when you say that your wife is the mst imprtant thing in your life. that being said, maybe you should ask your self why you would try to hurt her so publicly. Why say such mean things??? If my hisband said those things about me, publicly, I would have to question a lot of things. Some things should stay private, or at least resolved and then shared.
You wanted a pity party...... I hope you got what you wanted.... and I'm sorry it had to be at you wonderful wife's expence.
OK I'm done, let me have it if you want. I said what I felt I had to. Just remeber, it was said with love and concern, not just for your wife and marraige, but for YOU too!
Sinjoy(so)
OWCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That one hurt.
I'm going to apologize in advance.... but I have to say something..
I know this is your site, and I have in the past and will continue to thank you for it. That being said....owch, the post was a little harsh, don't ya think??
I understand that you are upset/angry/sad/feel alone. but to bash your wife like that??
I realise that I take a lot of things from the side of the SO, but wow, had you talked to her about any of this BEFORE you told the world?? Did you at least let her read it before sending it out?
You say she doesn't listen to you, do you to her? what about setting some guidlines ( no name calling ect.). What about a nutral third party? a therepist? a marraige councler?
Please correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like there is a lot more going on, on your side of the computer screen that what you said. I believe strongly in privacy, and would never ask you to explain, only to think about it. Maybe, the CDing issue is just a convenent smoke screen for what is really going through your mind.
I believe you when you say that your wife is the mst imprtant thing in your life. that being said, maybe you should ask your self why you would try to hurt her so publicly. Why say such mean things??? If my hisband said those things about me, publicly, I would have to question a lot of things. Some things should stay private, or at least resolved and then shared.
You wanted a pity party...... I hope you got what you wanted.... and I'm sorry it had to be at you wonderful wife's expence.
OK I'm done, let me have it if you want. I said what I felt I had to. Just remeber, it was said with love and concern, not just for your wife and marraige, but for YOU too!
Sinjoy(so)
I wish for you love, life, health and happiness.
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Virginia
- Goddess of the Universe
- Posts: 5543
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:06 pm
- Location: Strange Magic Hill
Shannon, Again thank you for your efforts with this site it has done more for a lot of us than you will probably ever know!
That being said, I have to agree with Sinjoy and Kay and the rest of my sisters here. Somethings are better left unsaid on a "public" forum such as this. .........but,
Since most everyone one knows my domestic situation and I am unfortunately not alone in this dissolution of a 28 year marriage, others more and some less, my point is this: If you are in a relationship with a woman that you TRULY love, I mean deep down in your heart, lay down your life for, love, AND she is in ANY way accepting of your quirks including crossdressing, you better bend over backward to do what ever is necessary to maintain that relationship. You know as well as anyone that GG"s have a real problem with us, regardless of what they say, but if they love us enough to struggle to understand us that is a treasure that you can rest assured will probably only come around once in your life time so you best protect it with everything you have!!!! From what I know of Sharon she is defintely able to "cut you a lot of slack." in this and it the two of you have issues with things like how often you dress, how much, where you can store your "stuff," what you wear. You both need to draw up some contracts on who can do what, when and where.
I have probably said too much, but in conclusion, we all appreciate what you have done for us and we are here for both of you if we can lend any positive criticism to you both.
Love,
Virginia
That being said, I have to agree with Sinjoy and Kay and the rest of my sisters here. Somethings are better left unsaid on a "public" forum such as this. .........but,
Since most everyone one knows my domestic situation and I am unfortunately not alone in this dissolution of a 28 year marriage, others more and some less, my point is this: If you are in a relationship with a woman that you TRULY love, I mean deep down in your heart, lay down your life for, love, AND she is in ANY way accepting of your quirks including crossdressing, you better bend over backward to do what ever is necessary to maintain that relationship. You know as well as anyone that GG"s have a real problem with us, regardless of what they say, but if they love us enough to struggle to understand us that is a treasure that you can rest assured will probably only come around once in your life time so you best protect it with everything you have!!!! From what I know of Sharon she is defintely able to "cut you a lot of slack." in this and it the two of you have issues with things like how often you dress, how much, where you can store your "stuff," what you wear. You both need to draw up some contracts on who can do what, when and where.
I have probably said too much, but in conclusion, we all appreciate what you have done for us and we are here for both of you if we can lend any positive criticism to you both.
Love,
Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
-
Beauty
- Retired Site Administrator
- Posts: 3662
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:30 am
- Location: Northern VA
- Contact:
What a family. I mean it. What we're saying to Shannon here would fall under the catch phrase, "tough love". No one is putting you down as a person Shannon, but we all are holding a mirror up to you to show you what your posts look like and they way you look to us.
I think this was perfect for you and I hope you use it as a chance to grow and not as an after party pity party. Most of us, as separate entities, seem to viewing you hurting Sharon with these posts, but something in you is screaming that it wants help. The huge problem I see is that you're not recognizing you're destroying your wife's mental strength. It's a form of mental abuse (tearing her down mentally, not building her up). Basically your actions are dictating, "You won't feel any level of good unless I do." I doubt very much you're doing it on purpose. I know how much you do love Sharon and so I think you're not looking at the house of mentally broken dishes you just see it as "well, that one is explainable" Meanwhile there are broken dishes every where and you don't see that you broke them or that you caused them to be broken. It doesn't matter if each one has an explanation for why it broke or who broke it. For me the bottom line is you need help with you and though nothing pisses anyone off more than hearing they need to work on themselves with counseling when they feel they are fine, I'm still saying it because I care about you both and this can get dangerous if anger or feelings are dealt with.
As you can read from the majority of the posts here there's no one who doesn't think you don't want to do that, but since you are showing signs of someone who's not coping to well with acceptance of them-self, I think maybe it's worth listening to what we've said and talking to someone outside of a friend or family about what's going on with you. Because I'm a CD'r I'm jaded and believe it has to do with you accepting who you are, but it may be even deeper than that.
Are you're doing this to make us push you away? You're a man who wears womans clothing and it's not to go shopping at the mall from posts I read in the earlier days and chats we've had in the open chat room you've said how you want to dress when you feel aroused and that's the end of the story. Maybe it's not? Maybe it's more about you being a man who enjoys wearing femme clothing because it makes you feel complete. Maybe you only want it to be about relating to the bedroom? Maybe your mind is letting you know if you don't get help for this you're going to continue to make yourself miserable, if you make yourself miserable there's no way you'll let your wife be happy. That's a lot of maybe's and you and I both know I'm not really qualified to know, but I do have enough experience on the web reading about self destructive behaviors and they are related to CD'ing. Lately you actions seem to be almost identical to what I've read from others on this forum and other forums on the web.
You're normal just like everyone else, just like me, which means if you're stuck in something mentally, you'll need help just like the rest of us have. Ok, I'll speak for me. I have needed the help of a therapist before and I wouldn't have made it to love myself without that help. No one else had a chance because I didn't like me. Until I'd come to grips with being a CD'r I couldn't handle the other problems I had in my life. When I finally came around that it wasn't something to hate myself for I was able to start dealing with the things that were really messing up my life. It wasn't until after I'd come to find out who I was that I wouldn't blame my CD'ing for this behavior or that behavior. No, it was just me. The me who if I wasn't a CD'r would have been the same jerk. I did a lot of apologizing and a lot of letting go of things I didn't have the power to change. It took over a decade of work and I'm still doing my best to learn more about what makes me tick, what pushes my buttons, and the things I say to people that hurt them and I never even knew it.
If you think we are all bunch of busy-bodies and we are wrong then look no further than your wife and if she's telling you she's not happy and all you can reply with are generalizations like, "You've lied and stabbed me in the back before", "I love you with all my heart", "I'll do anything for you", "You treat me like I'm scum", and you find that you're at home most weekends or not doing things together (even going to a movie), well that's a problem because your actions and your feelings about how good she's got it don't mesh.
If you don't believe you're doing that to Sharon then think about what you have done and tell her privately. Defend yourself and let her know she's missing how many things you do together or the oppurtunities she's turned down. Those who are close to you or those who try to be close to you. How many are there? I have no idea. If the answer you end up with is excuses, but no proof these things are there (going out, vacations, friends) then again it's not solid proof anything wrong, but it's another nice check mark on why maybe you need to talk to someone because your reality and reality when you look at it from the outside are not the same.
Add me to the people who's really sorry that I'm saying things you will most likely be overly p'd at, but it's just because I care, as stupid/odd as that may sound, I want what's best for you. I just don't think you are able to tell which way is up and this lashing out at Sharon is because there's no one else to do it too. It's not cool at all and you're losing the respect of people here who really have grown to love and respect the strength Sharon posses. She'd be your best friend if you'd let her. Usually we have to be our own best friend first though. Can you get help from a counselor, as Kay suggested, so you can love yourself and allow Sharon to be your best friend again?
I hope you can use this thread as a turning point and not the easy thing of using it to say, "The world or my so called, 'self-appointed' friends are wrong or right and I'll show them by never showing my face again. That'll learn 'em!" I hope you don't do that, but instead use it as energy to get help where you can talk to a therapist and say some of the things that you're keeping in to them.
You and Sharon are both in my prayers day and night.
Beauty
I think this was perfect for you and I hope you use it as a chance to grow and not as an after party pity party. Most of us, as separate entities, seem to viewing you hurting Sharon with these posts, but something in you is screaming that it wants help. The huge problem I see is that you're not recognizing you're destroying your wife's mental strength. It's a form of mental abuse (tearing her down mentally, not building her up). Basically your actions are dictating, "You won't feel any level of good unless I do." I doubt very much you're doing it on purpose. I know how much you do love Sharon and so I think you're not looking at the house of mentally broken dishes you just see it as "well, that one is explainable" Meanwhile there are broken dishes every where and you don't see that you broke them or that you caused them to be broken. It doesn't matter if each one has an explanation for why it broke or who broke it. For me the bottom line is you need help with you and though nothing pisses anyone off more than hearing they need to work on themselves with counseling when they feel they are fine, I'm still saying it because I care about you both and this can get dangerous if anger or feelings are dealt with.
As you can read from the majority of the posts here there's no one who doesn't think you don't want to do that, but since you are showing signs of someone who's not coping to well with acceptance of them-self, I think maybe it's worth listening to what we've said and talking to someone outside of a friend or family about what's going on with you. Because I'm a CD'r I'm jaded and believe it has to do with you accepting who you are, but it may be even deeper than that.
Are you're doing this to make us push you away? You're a man who wears womans clothing and it's not to go shopping at the mall from posts I read in the earlier days and chats we've had in the open chat room you've said how you want to dress when you feel aroused and that's the end of the story. Maybe it's not? Maybe it's more about you being a man who enjoys wearing femme clothing because it makes you feel complete. Maybe you only want it to be about relating to the bedroom? Maybe your mind is letting you know if you don't get help for this you're going to continue to make yourself miserable, if you make yourself miserable there's no way you'll let your wife be happy. That's a lot of maybe's and you and I both know I'm not really qualified to know, but I do have enough experience on the web reading about self destructive behaviors and they are related to CD'ing. Lately you actions seem to be almost identical to what I've read from others on this forum and other forums on the web.
You're normal just like everyone else, just like me, which means if you're stuck in something mentally, you'll need help just like the rest of us have. Ok, I'll speak for me. I have needed the help of a therapist before and I wouldn't have made it to love myself without that help. No one else had a chance because I didn't like me. Until I'd come to grips with being a CD'r I couldn't handle the other problems I had in my life. When I finally came around that it wasn't something to hate myself for I was able to start dealing with the things that were really messing up my life. It wasn't until after I'd come to find out who I was that I wouldn't blame my CD'ing for this behavior or that behavior. No, it was just me. The me who if I wasn't a CD'r would have been the same jerk. I did a lot of apologizing and a lot of letting go of things I didn't have the power to change. It took over a decade of work and I'm still doing my best to learn more about what makes me tick, what pushes my buttons, and the things I say to people that hurt them and I never even knew it.
If you think we are all bunch of busy-bodies and we are wrong then look no further than your wife and if she's telling you she's not happy and all you can reply with are generalizations like, "You've lied and stabbed me in the back before", "I love you with all my heart", "I'll do anything for you", "You treat me like I'm scum", and you find that you're at home most weekends or not doing things together (even going to a movie), well that's a problem because your actions and your feelings about how good she's got it don't mesh.
If you don't believe you're doing that to Sharon then think about what you have done and tell her privately. Defend yourself and let her know she's missing how many things you do together or the oppurtunities she's turned down. Those who are close to you or those who try to be close to you. How many are there? I have no idea. If the answer you end up with is excuses, but no proof these things are there (going out, vacations, friends) then again it's not solid proof anything wrong, but it's another nice check mark on why maybe you need to talk to someone because your reality and reality when you look at it from the outside are not the same.
Add me to the people who's really sorry that I'm saying things you will most likely be overly p'd at, but it's just because I care, as stupid/odd as that may sound, I want what's best for you. I just don't think you are able to tell which way is up and this lashing out at Sharon is because there's no one else to do it too. It's not cool at all and you're losing the respect of people here who really have grown to love and respect the strength Sharon posses. She'd be your best friend if you'd let her. Usually we have to be our own best friend first though. Can you get help from a counselor, as Kay suggested, so you can love yourself and allow Sharon to be your best friend again?
I hope you can use this thread as a turning point and not the easy thing of using it to say, "The world or my so called, 'self-appointed' friends are wrong or right and I'll show them by never showing my face again. That'll learn 'em!" I hope you don't do that, but instead use it as energy to get help where you can talk to a therapist and say some of the things that you're keeping in to them.
You and Sharon are both in my prayers day and night.
Beauty
-
Shannon
- Founding Member
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:42 pm
- Location: Houston, TX
Thank you for your thoughts and your "mirrors in my face"... it has be enlightening.....
I had no intention of "bashing" my wife.... I was wrong to do that.... I apologize to all of you for that and mostly I apologize to the BEST wife in the world.
I have learned what I needed to know....
There is no support avenue for me? I have tried MANY times to speak to my wife about things that bother me, but I have failed every time.... I have tried to ask for help here and I never manage to express in a means that doesn't piss people off...
I really don't know why it is so hard for me to convey a concept and have people understand what I am saying..... maybe it is poor communication abilities on myself.... ya think??????
You will notice I have locked this topic.. I have done that because there is no need for responses....... I have no need to say anything else and I am sure you all have no need to say anymore to me.
I wish you all luck in your endevors and peace unto you.
I had no intention of "bashing" my wife.... I was wrong to do that.... I apologize to all of you for that and mostly I apologize to the BEST wife in the world.
I have learned what I needed to know....
There is no support avenue for me? I have tried MANY times to speak to my wife about things that bother me, but I have failed every time.... I have tried to ask for help here and I never manage to express in a means that doesn't piss people off...
I really don't know why it is so hard for me to convey a concept and have people understand what I am saying..... maybe it is poor communication abilities on myself.... ya think??????
You will notice I have locked this topic.. I have done that because there is no need for responses....... I have no need to say anything else and I am sure you all have no need to say anymore to me.
I wish you all luck in your endevors and peace unto you.