Talk about anything else: your pets, your car, movies, celebrities, or other things you like. As a reminder, political and religious discussions do not belong in here, nor any other topics that may incite a heated debate! As always keep it clean, please.
naw, we've seen bubbles burst before. new girls will continue to come here, get assured that what they're thinking/doing is perfectly normal, get an eduation in all things TG/CD, then move on.
Have a nice day? You bet -- it hasn't been raining for weeks and I've been on the backhoe doing fun stuff all this time. surely you won't let a forum wreck it for you, right darlene?
ps: I edited this post 5 times and I see no "edit record" -------->
I guess I must be lost, kind of wandered in here by mistake. As by choice I don't do 'Mordor' and I don't normally get involved with threads such as this one.
It's not that I'm against threads like these, but for someone who is fairly new to this site and having been in my own little CDing world for many years until now, I know when I'm out of my depth. Besides, I want some fun in my life.
Perhaps I best get to the point. In the time I've been posting on this site, it has helped me in numerous way and too many to mention now. I'm happy with the way I am and exploring my femme side, (well for the moment anyway). To me it's all the little things that girls willingly help me with and knowing that their love, support and encouragement is there should I need it, perhaps in a time of crisis.
I guess what I'm trying to say is bring on the 'Soup Kitchen' and if necessary, I will queue around the block to gain entry.
Love Charlotte xx
Last edited by Samantha Jane on Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
I did not write this thread lightly. I gave it grave consideration. I fully understand that I will be attacked, and by whom. I welcome it. I am counting on it.
But I will also be supported. And most of those will not post here. I understand that too.
I am totally disinterested in free speach rights. I am totally disinterested in what you or anyone else would like to debate. Go debate it somewhere else. That is my whole point. This forum did not used to be about that. You arrived after it turned into that. You like doing it, so you are for it. This forum used to be about healing others. It was not about debate, or changing others minds
Didn't you read the rules?
No "converting" those who haven't accepted what you believe
This forum is not so you can convince those you find worthy, in fact you are breaking the rules doing it. It is not a place to insult other by telling them you don't approve of what they find to be creative. That is flaming and bashing. It needs to stop.
Take what you can use, and leave the rest. I personally beleive that posting rebuttles to a thread that is titled "Quote of the Day", instead of posting a Quote, is what needs to be censored. If you don't like quotes of others. don't read it. But stop looking for reasons to flame people.
You can defend whoever you like, it's your business, but perhaps it's a little narrow minded to say that quoting others is not a form of creativity, indeed it is. You see each person has to decide what quotes they want to bring to the forum, that tells us about them. So if someone does not find it original, or amusing, it is not necessary to insult the people doing it. Leave, go to something that is interesting.
In the end Violet, I don't want this place to be what you want it to be. I don't want it to be a free for all, where there is an ongoing desire to change people's minds. There are plenty of forums like that already. I tried to spell it out, I want the Soup Kitchen and it sounds like what you want is McDonalds. And if it is to be that, it's not a place I want to be.
You might try looking at the last 20 posts of the suspected troll, and see if you can find a post not attacking someone. You would look for a post showing support for someone instead of posts about being right. That is what I did. It becomes pretty obvious who is here to support others, and who is here to be right, and try to advance some personal agenda.
But there is not need to do anything other than remove every unkind post. And I don't mean one that dissents. My sisters here dissent all the time, with words like "I can't agree with my sister" or "in deference to my sister". or "in my opinion". I don't object to those with differning opinions, I object to people who attack others for some "cause".
It is really obvious that there are certain people here who seem to have negative things to say all the time, and in the harshest of ways. That is what I object to.
I moved my posts back to my thread where they belong. They were moved to some new ridiculous thread where they were out of context and made no sense.
I am not debating Creativity Corner. I am wondering why a few people are allowed to bring this whole place down.
Why Jamie Ann is allowed to call Raven my daughter in an obvious flame. There is clear favortism going on here, and a few people who continually spew hate and negativity have really taken over this forum.
I will lurk for a while, until I find a place that is clean, and loving. I wish to thank all my friends here who supported and loved me. And those who supported me in this thread and understood what I was trying to do. Unfortunately, it fell on deaf ears.
I know that there are others who feel like me, and it is really sad to see so many people leave here, to protect a few hateful mean people who contribute nothing postive.
<sigh> I am completely at a loss to understand where all of this vitriol has come from. WTF? Is one person whom you disagree with the attitude of, really worth all this? IMHO Liz, you are causing more damage to the forum with this single thread than anything that ever landed in Mordor. (Or Creativity Corner for that matter.)
Didn't you read the rules?
No "converting" those who haven't accepted what you believe
Then are you not also in violation of the rules with your attempt to 'convert' others to your view of what this forum should and should not be? This is the third time you have attempted to put the forum moderators in a position where they would be obligated to 'eliminate all dissent' and start stepping on posts and banning members. That is a hell of a lot more of a 'conversion' tactic than just debating with someone, a time-honored system of trying to covince - not covert, just convince - people of your views. Conversion is what cults and despots do to those they disagree with. Argument is what sane, rational people do when they disagree.
You may not care about 'free speech', but be assured that I do, deeply and profoundly. If what you want is a big love-and-peaches festival where everyone must continually be nice and never disagree with anyone on pain of expulsion, you're welcome to it. This forum is already about as heavily moderated as I can handle (and that includes the self-censorship I apply pretty constantly here). If things get any more restrictive, I'll be finding myself a new TG forum. I'll be sad to lose the companionship of all the wonderful sisters I've met here, especially you, Liz, but that's the reality. Nobody tells me who I can and can't be.
"There's something wrong with him. He should be mine, but he's not. His madness... his madness keeps him sane..."
Delirium, 'the Sandman', Niel Gaiman
INSANE GOTHIK DIVA SYNDROME
First I would like to say that I mean no disrespect, and I do not wish to offend anyone. I am just stating my opinion on what has been occuring here.
From my vatage point I feel the problem stems from a grievance handled in the wrong manner. I honestly feel that the proper and respectful way for one to handle such a grievance is; a) Is to write a polite, respectful, private note to the party he/she has an issue with. If a compromise cannot be reached in that manner, then b) The party who has the issue needs to inform the moderators of it and then abide by what the moderators decide on.
Publicly attacking and insulting people has never and will never resolve any problems, and it also shows a lack of respect not only for the party or parties being attacked, but also towards the rest of us.
*Hugs & Love*
Blessings Eternal, Jassmine
"Love is unconditional acceptance. That quality is also our essential nature, who we really are."
--Peter Shepherd
The main issue that I learned as a result of my conversation with Elizabeth is that. not one person has given anyone credit for helping another improve their life through the political debates here on this forum.
They were moved to Mordor, and then Mordor became a closed section. I believe that would have been fine.
But as soon as Mordor became rather inactive, as soon as some of us decided it was not productive posting there. As soon as there became no one or nothing to attack there. It spilled back into the forum.
And Administration did nothing about it.
That is what is hurting this place. Attack me all you want to. My self worth is definitely not dependent upon the kind of people who see that kind of activity as productive.
But this kind of activity does not present a friendly atmosphere where scared hurting people new to the Internet in need of help will want to come to. And that is what is dead here. Those are the kind of people who need the soup kitchen.
Is that not what we so proudly thought this was all about? Is not Elizabeth one of our story book examples of this? Is this how we want to reward the successes?
I think it's high time a bit of sanity started to prevail before self destruction starts to set in on some of us.
To me this is all a storm in a teacup and the longer it goes the sillier it's getting because really it's developing into a big hoohah over not much at all.
I would suggest that people such as us should be the last to throw darts at others and try to deny them free speech as free speech is what we're all about, isn't it?. Everyone of us at some time has got up on our soap box regarding societys' refusal to accept us in the main and how most of our people remain in the closet because of the general attitude of the public as to who we are and what we do, which in turn curbs most peoples ability to 'walk free' and 'speak free'.
People are only deluding themselves if they think that each and everyone of us is going to agree on every little thing on every subject. Just because we have a common cause which bonds us together regarding our gender issues or sexuality doesn't mean that we aren't all individuals in our own right, and that being so we'll always have different ideas and views on anything and everything, plus each and every person is entitled to express those views just as everyone else is entitled to challenge those views, but in a respectful manner.
Good heavens, if we all agreed on each and every little thing then what would be the purpose of this forum or any other gathering. What would we do under those circumstances? Sit around and sip tea, pat each other on the back and try to think of something to say? What would we talk about? Well think about it. People learn because of differing views, opinions, knowledge and experiences and isn't anyone entitled to express their opinion of whether something fits or it doesn't. I think if we're going to take umbridge at someones opinon that something we have written doesn't fit under a particular heading, then we have little else to do in our life. So what if they think it doesn't fit? Is it that big of a deal? it's only their opinion isn't it? and they're entitled to their opinion.
Good heavens, if I was offended by what other people say or think about me, what I say or write then I'd have jumped off the cliff or hit the bottle long ago. I also think that too many people let their Crossdressing or other Gender Issues dominate their lives way too much. It's all just a part of us and not the whole of us. There is much more to us and life. There is so much more to live for and enjoy, so many friends to be made and nice people to meet, things to do. Although, we aren't going to get along famously and be compatible with each and every other TG person, just the same as we don't get along with all our work mates, neighbours, relations etc etc, so don't even try.
I sure don't always agree 100% with what everyone writes here. Sometimes I express my opinion about it, many times I don't, but I sure don't get offended by what they say and nobody else should either. Trouble will find us sooner than later and I don't believe in going looking for it.
Sometimes people need to vent. Isn't this one good reason for a forum such as this? Perhaps if we knew the real reasons why some people are angry we could easily understand why they snapped. Little things build up into big things and I'd suggest that each and everyone of us have snapped at some time in our life. Some peoples lives are often caught up in quite meaningless stuff while life's opportunites pass them by ( we know that better than most, don't we ) and part of the reason for this is they feel so alone and isolated. Their teachings tell them that the boundaries are absolute and they are reluctant and afraid to abandon this view. Places such as this are invaluable to them and as such should be protected at all costs and those who have been able to cross the boundaries have a duty to give support to those who are unable to.
I think it's high time to move on. Those who feel they aren't compatible with someone else and they have an issue to take up with that person, then they should do it by the private means available. The facility is available for that purpose and none of us need to air our dirty linen in public. By continuing to publicly carry on with all this is only sending the wrong message to not only members here but to all those who just read what's written.
I certainly don't think that this forum needs more moderating. I think it's moderated to the right balance. Are we adults or adolescents? Do we really need to have a big stick waved over us? I don't think so, if we think about it in the calm light of day.
I'm not trying to target anyone or offend anyone whatsoever. I'm expressing my opinons to which I'm entitled under the laws of free speech and as a member of this forum, and I don't believe what's happened should be looked at by anyone in the light that they take their bat and ball and go home. It's still one of the best places around for quality information and support and will remain so, but lets just accept that we will never be compatible with everyone, but that being so we still have to give everyone the respect we wish them to give ourself, whether we agree with them or not. Dont' get in a huff over nothing much, one day we'll all be dead and it won't matter a toss anyway.
It's been said before, but I say again, ' a discussion is an exchange of knowledge, but an argument is an exchange of ignorance.'
Kind Regards to all.
Sally.
Watch nature, because it’s our greatest teacher, it moves and flows and moves on again. We can never be free until we disengage, so allow life to flow as you find it. The way it is, is the way it is.
I have read this thread and wanted to contribute my 2¢. I haven't been a member here all that long, not long enough to recall the "good ole' soup kitchen days" for sure. I do love this forum, it has helped me tremendously, in it's current form. One thing I have learned in life is that a group of people will never agree all the time, and as the group grows larger, the amount of time they argree decreases. From what I have seen we can't even agree on why we dress, which is the core of this site, and that is fine, we are all different and all have different reasons.
I read on here that we are like diamonds, and cross-dressing, is a facet of that diamond. A true support site would look to support people, not a behavior or an activity, but the people who partake in those behaviors and activities. People are complex. Some are political, some aren't. Some are passive, some aren't. We all have good days and bad. We should be able to share both, and get support for both. If CDing is the only facet of your being, then maybe the problem is not with this forum (general statement, not directed at anyone).
I definately don't agree with all I read here, and I would never expect everyone here to agree with me. I will say it does seem a few people here, seem to pick fights, for the sake of the fight. That, and personal attacks are unacceptable, and the moderators should step in at that point. I also think the members here should use discretion to which topic\thread they post to based on the content of their posts. When their decision is incorrect, the moderator of that topic, by all means, should move the post to the appropriate topic.
Mordor, I think of as a toilet. Not always the most pleasant place, but a necessary place. Think of a house with no toilet. A house with no toilet will either become empty very fast, or become a toilet itself. There needs to be a place to leave the excrement, especially when ya got the runs. I appreciate the existence of Mordor, and the views expressed in it. Some of the most eloquent posts on this site I have read, have been in Mordor. I also think the solution by Beauty and Sharon as to the fate of Mordor, was an awesome one. It was akin to putting a door on the bathroom. It not only isolates it from the rest of the house, it keeps the stench from spreading throughout.
I appreciate this site, and all of the members here, and I hope we are all here for a long long time.
-- Laura
"Love is not put in the heart to stay, love is not love, until it's given away" - dunno who said it, saw it written on a rock
Thank yoou Laura!!!!
I love the analogy, very fitting!
I think we are getting a handle, if you will, on this entire episode and hopefully it will be over soon!
Love,
Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
yes, people SHOULD do that (that what PMs are for) but some girls who heavily partipicate in these discussion have also closed the door to resolving things privately. Their choice I suppose. But says a lot about them too.
nope. I can't buy that. too much of our freedom and our future is determined by subjects found in the Mordor area. Sorry if you find the path to freedom ugly.
