Crossdressers-Haven.com

Hello Admin,

I just want to ask you if you will consider relaxing your discriminatory policy against crossdressers, please.

No doubt you have been asked this before, and no doubt you have a good reason for your discriminatory policy, but I think it might be constructive if you were to disband it.

I am referring, of course, to the discussion board for SOs , GGs, etc, where I, and other CDers, are prohibited from posting. However, SOs, GGs etc are allowed to post on 'our' boards--I know, because I've read the posts, and very good they are too--and it is that one-sidedness which makes your policy discriminatory.

Whilst discrimination of any sort is wrong, per se, what really concerns me is the fact that I would like to be able to respond to some of the SOs and GGs posts on their own boards, and my reasons for wishing to do so are that occasionally I think I have something useful and helpful to say in reply. I am sure I not the only CDer to feel this way, either.

If you allow any of us to post on any board, I can only see advantages in it for all of us, can't you? So how about it then?

Respectfully yours,

Caroline.

Hi Caroline,

I do not see this as being discriminatory in any sense of the word. The SOs have issues of there own that many of us do not understand. They need a place to work through there own stuff, where they can feel safe from those of us who are not so enlightened.

One can always introduce a topic in the section for CDers and SOs, as some of us have done when there is something that is important to us. And some very good dialog has developed in some of those threads.

And that is my 2 cents worth.

Darlene wrote:Hi Caroline,

I do not see this as being discriminatory in any sense of the word. The SOs have issues of there own that many of us do not understand. They need a place to work through there own stuff, where they can feel safe from those of us who are not so enlightened.

One can always introduce a topic in the section for CDers and SOs, as some of us have done when there is something that is important to us. And some very good dialog has developed in some of those threads.

And that is my 2 cents worth.

Hi Darlene,

I agree that SOs have issues of their own, but that's not to say that some of the rest of us are insufficiently enlightened to have something valuable to contribute directly to the thread in question. As it is, if I read an SOs post on the SOs board that I believe I have some worth contributing to, I am barred from doing so, the way things stand at the moment.

Furthermore, if I read something from an SO that I think I can really help them with, how can I be sure that they'll see my 'reply' if I've got to post it on another board, and as a new thread?

And again, I know that there has been good dialogue between CDs and SOs on the CDs boards; not only have I read it, but I've taken part, and I believe that both sides were enriched by it.

You say, quite correctly, that SOs have their own issues, and indeed they do, as do we. However, SOs can respond to us directly by posting replies on our boards, and that can only be to the benefit of all of us.

Regarding your comment that we may not understand some of their issues, in that case we would be unable to offer any help, so we would not post a reply even if we were allowed to.

Finally, I know you mean well, but I don't think you really meant to imply that SOs would not be safe from us if we were allowed to post replies on their boards, did you.

Something else--I'm on a hobby-horse now--it is discrimination when one sector of a group or society can go places and do things that another sector of that group of society is barred from. The same reasons are always trotted out to justify this too; they're different from us, they need to feel safe from us, we don't understand their issues blah, blah, blah. That is discrimination, however you look at it, and all discrimination , positive, negative, whatever, is wrong. I believe your Constitution even says as much.

Apart from the principle of the thing, there's the personal issue too. I read a couple of SO posts on an SO board that I really thought I could help them with. Now that might sound conceited, but it's not; I just don't see why I am barred from trying to help an SO directly when I think it's in my capacity to do so. So I would like the freedom for any of us who think we can make a positive contibution to anyone, anywhere, to be able to do so.

After reconsideration, Darlene, I hope you will join me in asking Admin to change their policy on this issue.

In haste, but with kind regards,

Caroline.

Hi Caroline,

Good question Caroline and very well worded (as I'm learning to expect) The good thing is a have an answer. We did that for a reason.

When women "usually" first join this forum, the last thing they want to do is hear from a CD'r. They are usually confused and don't really want to get any advice from crossdressers. They'd rather get support from women in situations like them and at the same time be able to read about what their SO may be like. (by reading the CD area)

The majority of the SO's/GG's do post a hello in the New Members area and we are able to talk to them there. You will find most post a great deal of what they are feeling there, which gives CD's time to converse with them.

The site was geared for the GGs so they could get support and read articles about their SOs, but feel free to get GG support only.

In "A Place For Togetherness" we have the ability to share with the GG's of the forum. So what you'll see very often is someone will read a post in the GG section and post a question to the GGs in the area where we can all share.

Regarding locking down the CD area. We thought about this a long time and decided GG's should be allowed to frolic amongst us. For the most part we're SUPER happy when they do. As you noted their contributions have been well received.

The forum went through a period of time when we tried what you suggested, but our retention rate for GG's was VERY low. After we changed the rules and they had their own area to talk we started keeping them. YAY!!!

So, the answer is, "it's not likely that we will unlock the SO ONLY area to allow CD'rs to post their and we won't lock down the CD area.

Personally I like the SO only area because it lets me read the things they go through with out male interruption. There have been discussions that I think if a Transgendered person had been in there the discussion would have gone another way. It's great to see how women share with each other. I'd dare to say it's beautiful.

Beauty

Hi Caroline,

I understand what you are asking and I have too wished I could directly reply to an SO post. I have used the area Beauty mentioned and, if I felt it was really important, I sent a pm to the SO involved letting them know my feelings or telling them of the post in the other section. This seems to work very well while leaving an area for the SO's with no male interference. I know we do not have an "area of our own" which excludes the SO's and I am just fine with this. I honestly don't think I would use it very often if it were there. I really do value their input. This board has been a learning experience for a lot of us. I do hope you understand.

Josey you do bring up a very valid point. The board does have a learning curve. It's a big place these days.

I've noticed some folks (including myself) starting to bring up older threads that were used by lots of us for weeks that some of the newbies didn't know about.

Beauty

Caroline,

The enlightenment that I was referring to is that witch Beauty has so clearly described.

We CDers have had all of our lives to think about and process our situation. Many SOs come here desperately searching for answers that they have only had weeks may be a little longer to think about. I do not have a difficult time in understanding that they would prefer to be among themselves for a while. If I were in the same situation I would probably feel the same way.

Beauty wrote; When women "usually" first join this forum, the last thing they want to do is hear from a CD'r. They are usually confused and don't really want to get any advice from crossdressers.
They'd rather get support from women in situations like them and at the same time be able to read about what their SO may be like. (by reading the CD area)

Caroline wrote; Finally, I know you mean well, but I don't think you really meant to imply that SOs would not be safe from us if we were allowed to post replies on their boards, did you.

Caroline I meant to imply that SOs would not feel safe (not that we would want to do anything to make them unsafe.)

I to have had the same thoughts as you and believe that I have had some thing worth contributing to the SOs posts, but some of them may not be ready for it. So I wait until the issue comes up at a later date in an area that I can respond, and take advantage of the opportunity then.

Caroline also wrote; However, SOs can respond to us directly by posting replies on our boards, and that can only be to the benefit of all of us.

The difference is that we are ready for that while they may not be.

Caroline I respect you, and really appreciate the maturity you have shown in your response here.

Darlene,

You are beautiful!!

That response was SUPER ladylike. I'm am mega impressed. (I can't believe I'm going to say this ) Girlfriend!



Beauty

"Thanks Girlfriend"

Hi Gals,

Thanks for the feedback.

I have no problem with CDers not having an exclusive area; in fact I definitely wouldn't want that. I want us to be inclusive, not exclusive; there's too much exclusion in the world as it is.

I only want to be able to respond to another person when I felt I have something constructive and helpful to say to them. For me it doesn't matter whether they are a CDer, SO, or whatever, those are just labels, all I see is another person in some pain or difficulty, and I want to help if I can. Why? Because it makes me feel better, that's why.

I found Josey's post really helpful in a practical way; send a PM. I never thought of that; thanks, Josie. I guess that solves my problem.

Kind regards to you all,

Caroline.

Darlene wrote: that witch Beauty

Hi Darlene,

I was just reading this thread again, and I noticed how uncomplimentary you were about Beauty.

Forgive me, please, I'm NOT laughing at you, and I'm sure no-one else is either; I think it's a great typo, and I'd be proud to call it one of mine. Please don't change it.

Kind regards,

Caroline.

Hi Caroline,

No she meant witch.

You're too new to get it.

Beauty

Hi Beauty,

Aaah! So that's why you keep 'wrinkling' your nose like that. I'd better stay in your good-books.

Regards,

Caroline.

lol!

Caroline,

Hi there! !

I used to moderate the SO side for a while and initially we had it as an open and inclusive part of the forum.
Alot of the laidies offered advice to the GG's and sometimes it was appreciated and sometimes (unfortunately) it did seem to scare them away.
I think there is some truth to what was said about some SO's looking for other SO's to relate to initially before posting in other sections like the section that was set up for both CD's and SO's.
SO membership actually went up and we were able to retain more active SO posters once the section was restricted.
It just seems to work out abit better this way.

I actually appreciated this thread because I think it is a terrific question especially for newer members of the forum to understand our development process.

BTW although I've dropped out of sight in the forum lately if you'd ever like to respond to one of my threads in the SO section, I'd be honored if you wanted to PM me with a response.

Lefty