Crossdressers-Haven.com

Aloha!

This is a weird place to be I'll tell ya' (mentally, emotionally, and physically).

So here's what's going on in my forum life. Certain events have happened that put me in a very weird place. I have more than two sides who think I favor one group, one forum member, or think I have it out for them personally, or that I say things to be hurtful, that I take actions that are too politcal, aren't political enough, too polite, not rigid enough, that they are the only people I IM or e-mail with requests or changes. Basically multiple sides think I'm not on their side and am looking out for another person or group and right now as they read this they think I'm specifically talking about them when I'm talking to them all at once. I said that last sentence in one breath.

The cool part is that even though my heart is pumping a mile a minute I want to face this dragon. It would be easier to just throw my hands up and say "To hell with it if I can't win." In all actuality if this were a movie this post would be the credits rolling.

I love all of you. Even if you hate my guts, I still love you more than you can dislike me... yes even that much.

What I'm going to do is ask for help. I need your help because when I removed flames I got yelled at and when I didn't I got yelled at. The thing about these decisions is I have to keep doing this knowing my hand is going to get caught in a rat trap both ways and over and over because I have a job to keep this a support forum. I'm ditzy enough to keep sticking my hand back into those rat traps every time I need to regardless of the pain my soul feels when I read your words of anger towards an action I took on the forum, via PM, e-mail or on the public forum. I have to keep feeling that pain because if I don't things can get badly quick. Fortunately there's more good than bad and the love I feel keeps things even.

I don't know what you all think is too much or too little versus what I think is too much or too little. None of us can really tell, but we do our best to make your experience here positive. One side always thinks I'm wrong (that's not a complaint). It's ok though, it's part of the job. I don't have to do be a mod. I want you to know I don't want any sympathy at all here. I need help with what you want now.

Yes, this negativity is insane. I'd like to stop it in a second, but I'm not sound enough to know at this time if it's debate or if under handed comments are ok anymore? What do the majority think? I just have no clue what to ask other than, can I remove things that I feel are flames? I know them every time I see them, but knowing the person who reads a flame one day and applauds my action of removing it, but the next day flames someone and asks me why am I picking on them and deleting or moving their post? It all looks the same now.

:: Deep exhale ::

Ok. So what now? I need your help. I can use my moral compass + what the majority of you want, but you've got to try to accept on any given day it may be your turn to cross the line and have someone remove something, move something, contact you, warn you, or correct you in some way that you may feel is being judgmental or biased against you.

Beauty

Hey Beauty

I must say that I can see the bind you are in So, I will go on the record and say that any descion you make regarding any of my postings is ok by me

As one of the moderators, I personally feel that what ever judgement calls need to be made, to keep this place a postive place to hang out, should be made. If anyone has an issue with your judgement of what you see fit to have posted here, and I say this with the utmost respect to all, that is their tough luck. The forum rules are clearly posted and state what is allowed and not allowed to be posted, and those rules really need to be followed.

I too, have a favor to ask of everyone.....Please, treat others with the same respect and common courtesy that you wish to be treated with

Thank ya kindly

*Hugs & Love*

Hi Beauty,

I for one have to say that you've done a wonderful job with this forum since day one. The problem with moderating any message forum on the internet with a large group of members is that is that no matter how hard you try, no matter how far backwards you try to bend to make everyone happy, that is a virtual impossibility. One or two people are always dissatisfied. One or two members will always find something to complain about. I know it can beome very frustrating at times.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can dislike you... you have a difficult task. And for that I know I speak for many here when I say that I am grateful. Even when you've had difficult tasks of locking threads, ending discussions, or suspending members, you've always done so in a very diplomatic fashion. Folks may complain and rant and protest along the way, but such are the trials or running a message forum. Everybody always takes it personally.

Beauty wrote:Fortunately there's more good than bad and the love I feel keeps things even.

That's a wonderful way to look at it!

Beauty wrote: I don't know what you all think is too much or too little versus what I think is too much or too little. None of us can really tell, but we do our best to make your experience here positive.

That's all that you can do, hon. And you've done so beautifully.

Love you!!

~ Lorna

Your role as moderator here entails a certain amount of enforcement, Beauty. Cops are always unpopular with someone - just comes with the job. I wish the knowledge of this made things easier for you; I know it doesn't. I appreciate what you do here, and I know I'm not the only one.

Yours,
Celia

Beauty,

I understand you don't want any sympathy but might I give you some empathy. You are doing what most would refer to as a thankless job. You're right, you can't win. All that said, may I just say Thank you!!!

I know I don't post very much but I do spend a lot of time reading the posts from all. Isn't it nice bunch of folks here. Some are long winded and some are brief. Some are optimists and some are pessimists. A few get cranky and vent when they shouldn't and some keep it inside until they blow their stack.

As I understand, the job of the moderator is to "police" the posts and remove what is unnacceptable according to the rules of the forum. I believe you are doing that job and doing it admireably. I don't see what you remove so I can't and wouldn't try to second guess you. No one else can see what you remove either (as far as I know) so the only person with a legitimate complaint would be the author of the post that you deemed improper.

I don't know if you notify the offending party but if you don't that might be a starting point. By telling them why you removed the post and giving them an opportunity to "rephrase" might be of help. They could then choose to rewrite or accept your decision to remove the post.

After all is said and done, however, it is your choice, your decision, and those of us that participate in this forum will accept your decision or choose not to participate. Ultimately most of us choose to stay because we enjoy participating in a forum that is not filled with hate, degradation and even more stuff that drives us away from other venues.

Thanks for the job you are doing.

Paige

Hi Beauty,

I've been trying to write this post for ages and written all manner of versions and deleted them all.
So my reply is simply put; I support you 100% in any decisions that you have to make, regarding a posts contents. Just as you have supported me 100%, since joining this forum and I love you for it.

Charlotte xx

Jassmine has said most of what I wanted to say and I concur with what she's said.

I might just add that if we join any club or organisation anywhere we give a commitment to abide by the rules or else it all becomes mayhem. Overseeing a large group of people in any circumstances is a no win job, you are never going to please all of the people all of the time but the democratic system works on the ' majority vote ' system and for the good of the majority, not the minority and that's how it has to be here.

Someone has to be independant and make decisions and it's up to the rest if we want to participate to accept the established rules. I've never witnessed any evidence of Beauty favouring an individual or a group over another. It's no easy task for any one person to take responsibility and make decisions which are not going to please everyone, in fact it's a no win situation, it just isn't possible in every instance to please everyone and I think a little bit of compassion is warranted for those who put their hand up to do a thankless job for the overall betterment of the forum.

I haven't always agreed with every action Beauty has taken and I've told her so privately at the time and my reasons why and I think that's the course of action anyone should take and not air it publicly. But in the end it's her decision to make when moderating the forum, we'll never agree with every decision any umpire makes, that's just a fact of life.

Usually when we've worked very hard to build something valuable, our contributions will be dismissed as soon as we're gone.
But caring people Work hard and build anyway and sometimes When we're empathic and caring, people will say we're manipulative and politicking. Sometimes you just can't win and it takes special people to rise above it all and carry on, I for one appreciate and applaud the efforts of anyone who puts themself willingly in that situation.

Kind Regards,

Sally.

Hey Beauty,
I have to take everyone back to our homepage it says "Crossdressers-Forum." It does not say politics forum, or religious forum or sex forum. These can certainly "bleed" over but not to the extent that I have witnessed lately. People come her for support, empathy, understanding, hand-holding and/or recognition and love. One can easily find any of those traits here - I know from personal experience. When you have as many young ladies here as we have there are bound to be differences of opinion. It is my considered opinion that (SO's not withstanding), that we are all crossdressers we all deal with the trials and tribulations that come with this gift on a daily basis. We are a net based support group and that is what we should be doing is supporting each other.
If you as a moderator deem that someone is not meeting the expectations - I say remove their post!! Someone has got to have that responsibilty and make that decision. I appreciate you and admire you for taking on that most unappreciated responsibility.
Rock and Roll, Girl - I am behind you 100%
Virginia

Hi all,

Beauty, I trust your judgment as well. Why? Because it's a very human judgment. You do the best you can, given, first, the atmosphere the members themselves generate, and, second, the forum's rules and guidelines. Co-operation from each and every person who posts here would be an awesome thing, indeed. Barring that, you will inevitably have to put your foot down at some point and say, "enough already!" Yes, someone may feel hurt or offended by that, but as a wise person once told me, "it's just not possible to please all the people all the time." I think this is true. Especially when you're in a position where you have to enforce respect for the "covenant" all of us here have implicitly agreed to, even before contributing our very first post.

We agreed to be respectful and civil towards others;
We greed that we are here to share--and to let others share also;
We agreed that we won't try to "convert" anyone to a given outlook or belief;
We agreed that this is a discussion forum, not an argument forum;
We agreed that we're willing to submit to these rules and guidelines.

Anyone who disagrees with any of these conditions has the choice to either leave or abide by the moderator's best judgment.

I'm behind you, Beauty.

Here are some suggestions for members:

If you feel offended or hurt by what another member has written, try to see if it's possible to resolve things with that person privately first;
If you feel a member has strongly violated a forum guideline, bring it to the attention of the moderators--again, privately first;
Finally, consider the possibility that, if you're unable to abide by a moderator's ultimate judgment, you may perhaps get more enjoyment out of an unmoderated forum--there are quite a few on the internet.

For myself, I've taken a step back in the last few days. Although I appreciate your warm comments, the truth is, the only "sympathy" I'm really looking for, here, is the sympathy the members might have for a public forum where people can come to refresh their spirits, recharge their batteries, renew their enthusiasm, and reacquaint themselves with their own worth as human beings. There are many ways to do all this; if those ways are congruent with the guidelines the forum set for itself, then, by all means, participate: enjoy, vent, laugh, cry, discuss, wonder, and, yes, just be! But, please, don't fault a moderator who's trying her best to make this an enjoyable experience for those who come here.

Deal?

Love,
CJ

I agree that being a moderator is a difficult job, and that the persons who are served will more often express themselves when they are dissatisfied than when they are satisfied. That asymmetry is hard to avoid, but it surely makes a moderator feel less appreciated than she really is. We should have some mechanism through which, from time to time, we could send a bouquet of flowers to Sharon, Beauty, and CJ to symbolize that even when we get ill tempered, we do appreciate them. There ought to be some way to get rid of the asymmetry.

I also agree that these suggestions (i.e., CJ’s) are good ones.

Where I part company a little bit is that I think when a post is deleted, there should be more concern for whether that deletion leaves a distorted impression of what the individuals involved have said or done. I have had posts deleted that were basically logical arguments, with plenty of facts and other documentation, aimed at refuting a charge by someone else. Yet the post that made the charge is retained, giving the impression that the false statements are true. The main beneficiary of selective removal has been the person who continues to refer to others as “trolls,” etc., and then has the audacity to claim she is being discriminated against. In a fair debate, she would not win.

Quibbles aside, I do not fault the moderators. If I could, I would take back a few statements I have made when I was upset. I am sorry.

IMO I believe members should be able discuss the need for moderation (or less moderation) in a general way.

However to discuss a specific moderation decision is usually counterproductive because SOMEBODY has to make a final arbitory decision and either one party or another will not agree. So once that decision is made, just move on to fight another day. There will be other opportunities to make your points.

I think Beauty (and CJ) are just doing the best they can.

Hi Beauty,

I can also see the bind you are in. And I too will go on the record and say that any decision you make regarding any of my postings is OK by me. I don't need to like them all, although I have not personally had a serious problem with any action you have taken with them in the past.

I have felt that some of the times that you have locked threads that it was intended to protect the offender, more than to cool things down. (just my opinion). Not a big issue to me. But this may be the reason some see you as favoring one group or person over the other.

I personally feel that what ever judgment calls need to be made, to keep this place a positive place to hang out, should be made. If anyone has an issue with your judgment of what you see fit to have posted here, with all due respect, that is their tough luck. The forum rules are clearly posted and state what is allowed and not allowed to be posted, and those rules really need to be followed.

However as we have experienced here, not all are willing to follow. And rules without some kind of enforcement are meaningless in certain situations.

I want to let you know that you have my respect for facing this dragon. And if you think I can help you in any way please feel free to get in touch?

You seem to have a struggle with wanting to please everyone, If that is to large of a mountain for you, perhaps delegating that responsibility to some one who does not have quite that same struggle would work?

Love Darlene.

You've done a very good job of moderating.

Being a moderator can be a very tiresome job, which requires one to take their time to read posts or threads some of us don't feel like reading. Where we have the option of reading certain threads, the moderator does not.

Moderating the various posts of course is a judgement call. I've questioned some posts and PMed Beauty with my concerns. Whether I agree with her decision or not, it is ultimately her call. I will not fault her for for it, because who's to say I was right.

Heck even I've had posts, if anyone can believe it , deleted or moved. Your explanations regarding the reasons for the steps taken satisfied my curiosity.

So, even though I may not agree with all the decisions, I will support your right to make the decision 100%.

Beauty wrote:I need your help. I can use my moral compass + what the majority of you want, but you've got to try to accept on any given day it may be your turn to cross the line and have someone remove something, move something, contact you, warn you, or correct you in some way that you may feel is being judgmental or biased against you.

I accept!

Hi there,

Great feedback. Thanks for the support. You all have given me great insight to what you are thinking and they way you'll feel if I use my mind as the decision maker. I also liked how some people told me they don't always agree, but support my decisions. That rocked!!!

I'm going to wait for a few more people to comment, but it seems like I've got the ok to take things back to the way they used to be and not be so confused. While we wait let me clear up a few things that may have been miscommunicated by me in the post or even before that post.

Hi Paige,
Thank you for your super kind words. I think you'll like this. Unless it's a repeat offender I almost always notify someone of a post that has been removed. Most of the time I include the removed post in the thread and give it back to them to say, please feel free to PM this message to them, but please don't flame them on the forum. I absolutely don't do this 100% of the time however. I use my judgement, which is what some have problems with. There are times there's no way I'd want them to send a PM with things that are kind of harsh to a member so I just remove the post entirely. By including it in the PM back to them I agree with you, it does give them the chance to reword it.

Hi Jamie Ann,
First thanks for the kind words of encouragement. When removing posts I don't really care what it leaves as far as a perception. All I'm doing is removing or editing a post that was considered a flame. Your wording is a perfect example of what I get a lot (not just you, trust me on that) of PMs about. It's the double edged sword thing. I get the ok and support to do the job, but everyone thinks their post isn't offensive and it was addressing facts and rebutting false accusations that are made at someone. A post with a flame in it, is a post with a flame in it, and the entire post will be removed and sent back. Anyone can revamp or re-think what they've said until it doesn't contain any personal attacks (flames).

When I remove a post that contains a flame the onus is not on me to remove another post that doesn't flame. If the post that caused the flame, I find, didn't say anything mean then it stays. If anyone feels someone has flamed them, please contact me and I'll take a look and tell you if I agree or not. So the way it's going now (from the feedback I'm reading) it's going to be me removing the offending post and not the one that caused it (if the alleged post the that caused the flame is found not to be a flame). I have done both over the past year and a half. I've removed a flaming post and contacted someone about what they've said to get someone upset. I've almost removed two posts where someone sugar coated a kick in the hoo-hoo and the person who was kicked understandably defended themselves.

I'm really proud of you for saying you'd take back a few statements you made when you were upset, if you could. That's totally classy.

I'm really going to need all of the forum members to read well before they post and ask, "Is Beauty going to nuke this?"

Hi Darlene,
Thanks for commenting too. Perceptions stink and that's part of the reason of this thread to see what you all are thinking. Your comment regarding me locking threads and the way it looks (intended to protect the offender) is very insightful. It would have never dawned on me, unless someone pointed it out like you did, that my action of locking a thread would look like I'm protecting anyone. That really was fascinating.

Please let me reassure everyone the only reason I lock a thread is because it has gotten to the point where a discussion is no longer taking place, it's just a contest to see who john thomas is the biggest. It's a guy thing that I see happen around here a lot. I get lots of feedback from women of the forum who are amazed men who say they have femme qualities can be so macho when it comes to their opinions and defending them. I don't think they are critiquing these things as much as they are stating what they are observing. I agree with them. Perception is reality these days.

I digressed Darlene, I'm sorry. I'm talking to you again now. I only, I promise, lock a thread when it's not longer a discussion. I have no idea who started it I just know it's going nowhere, feelings are getting hurt, and it's hurting the image of the forum.

The last thing you said was very cool too because you may not be the only person who has the perception that I want to please everyone. Oh gosh no. I gave up trying to do that years ago when I discovered I was codependent. I took almost a decade to get myself under control and it's been almost seven years since I consider myself healed, but I'm aware I am always on the cusp of going back. Sorry, back to the point. I do not want to please everyone because there's no way I can and that's ok. I give my best to please the majority here and in life. I think we all accept I can't make everyone happy here. If I just focus on my role here though, my jobby is to help run the forum and keep it for support and upbeat I'll accomplish keeping the majority happy. Yes, it's my prime directive and in the prime directive is not trying to please everyone. I hope you see it is not a struggle in the least. I love this stuff!!! Dragons are puny little reptiles who are full of hot air, so I love slaying them. Especially mental dragons. So since it's not a case of me wanting to please everyone, but to illustrate what's going on in my world right now I don't need to find someone who can do it.

Sharon always says, "Poor Beauty" because I get slammed so much by forum members who think I'm attacking them personally. It happens to all of us who help keep the forum up. Maybe because I tend to be the mover and deleter, I'm a focal point of angst and oddly enough I love the job? I feel if someone really got to know me they'd know there's no way in heck I'm like their perception of me is, if it's negative. So that helps keep me balanced.

Ooops, I did it again Darlene, digressed, ok so it's not a mountain for me. It's more like dust on a desk that I can wipe or blow away. I'm sorry if my original post came off like I have even the slightest problem with what I do. I did my absolute bestest to make sure everyone knew I don't mind this critiques, jabs, slaps, kicks, and written punches I receive almost everyday. It helps me understand people more. I'm overjoyed after everything is passed to have learned more about me and the human condition. It's very interesting.

Thank you so much for caring about me and the idea of off-loading if it bothered me Darlene. I think this job (being a Mod/Admin) is a job I love having and that's one of the responsibilities that come with it.

Thank ALL of you again for your support. There are a few regulars who didn't post last night ... YAY DonnaT posted and so that's another regular! I will start taking swift action to get things all back to normal when a few more regulars have had a chance to log in and voice their opinions.


Jassmine, Lorna, Celia, Paige, Charlotte, Sally, Virginia, CJ, Jamie Ann, Alexandra, Darlene, Donna and to those who don't really like me or those who read and supported me in spirit. THANK YOU!!!! I love ya' so much.. ouch. yes it hurts.

Beauty

Hi Beauty,
I am in agreement with most everyone else here, that you are doing a great job as a moderator !! And that goes for all moderators here spending your personal time trying to make this a friendly place for us to gather.
You know I dont post a lot here, and I stay away from most of the controversy when it does come up , but I say its your call how to handle anything thats questionable.
I would also bet if something is borderline to you, that between the team of moderators here I will never have any complaints !
Oh but one thing comes to mind ,,,, I was glad to see that the ban on Blonde jokes last year was short lived :-)))

Keep up the great work ok !!
Hugs
Cindy