Crossdressers-Haven.com

Kathleen Parker Washington Post Columnist wrote a piece on transgenderism and political implications for conservatives. I believe Caitlyn Jenner has done more to help our desire to live freely and openly in society than any other...it is a social event if not a social earthquake for us. It draws attention to our tiny and very complex minority. She has brought a positive image, has done more to educate society about who we are than anyone I can remember.

Being Transgender is intensely personal but the consequences for those who are has meant near universal rejection requiring us to hide who we are even from other family members, others have boldly faced down society to live openly as micro activists. We are a complicated group some are transexual, others are not some are homosexual, bi sexual or heterosexual. Some live full time others go back and forth between their dual genders. yet society cannot be bothered and does not care to understand us we are pressured into the closet labeled perverts and homosexuals and have our rights denied. All of this is changing.

The reality is we are normal people with a gender variance and many are married with children working side by side with average people. We are respected, and have many friends that is until we share that we are transgender then some stand by our side, others leave, we may be fired from our position, Those who remain look at us differently and are unsure about us and have many questions. We even face the possibility of rejection by our own family.

We who are Transgender struggle to understand and to accept ourselves and once we have we may further struggle with our spiritual beliefs if we are religious. We have to struggle to open the closet door as we make tentative progress to come out into the light of day.

It is a very difficult personal struggle made worse by society but we are who we are I am just lucky to live at a time when society is open to change and we will see the full acceptance we deserve as human beings.

Sometimes I struggle with to tell...or not to tell. Is that being an exhibitionist? Is there a need to tell someone so intensely personal about ourselves? But this is my home and if I see people such as the Hospice personnel who are in and out on a regular but scheduled basis...should I or shouldn't I? I mean the Nurse and the Aid..The sitter knew she moved on to a higher paying position unfortunately but I am saving $520 a month!! The Social worker and the chaplain ladies who come together once a month to assess largely how I am doing as a caregiver - the proverbial tent pole of the tent. I have even met with them fully dressed a couple times.

Still...people do not go around to people stick out their hand and say "Hey, glad to meet you...I like red meat!" There is a reason to tell I believe because this is my home and I may be dressed and they would be very shocked, either that or I have to continue to hide it which is equally unnatural especially it this is who I am, it is something they may see that would shock them and I have a right to be who I am freely without having to keep a schedule in my head as to who may be showing up...Oh no have to change or wait... I do not think we should have to live that way... I think I am going to tell them today!

Ok that makes the Hospice Nurse, and the Hospice Aid and as of today that makes 18 people who know that I am transgender. I think this gradual strategy of coming out is working quite well for me. I may not choose to tell some people who I know would not accept it. But with a large and growing group of friends, family and people who do know I am in a very strong position should some narrow minded twit decide to reject me and walk away. So let's see, My wife was 1st but now has advanced dementia, My sons, one sister, two Hospice Nurses and an aid, a sitter, The hospice social worker and chaplain, one of my wife's nieces, a pen pal off a dating site who's mother has dementia too, an online friend, My sister's husband, one of the boy's friends, a psychologist and I also count this support group though it is quasi anonymous. So far nothing but positive acceptance so there is encouragement. I need to tell my neighbors that way I could walk out and get the mail but they are an older couple so It is probably best to hold for now.

Hi Anne. Is Caitlyn Jenner transgender because she has made the decision to live full time as a women without having surgery? Or is everyone on this site no matter how often we present as a woman considered transgender? I have read the posts here concerning labels and how they don't really matter, it only matters how you feel as an individual. I do feel happy for Caitlyn and can see how her story could make it better for everyone who feels as we do. But I am not like her nor is she like me. Surely, we can have shared experiences and commiserate, but we are different. And I am not saying that's a bad thing. Lastly, I am not fully convinced this is not just some Kardashian publicity stunt. As far as the picture and how she looks, with the make-up pros and Annie Leibovitz taking the pic we could all look great. Thanks for all you thought provoking posts and just being you.

Olivia

I apologize for jumping in here, but it truly appears that existing labels are being re-invented, new ones are continually being created, and just to make things more confusing definitions actually vary in different locations.

Generally speaking it seems that most consider "transgender" as the umbrella. Transvestites, transsexuals, cross-dressers, or anyone for that matter who crosses the gender barrier can fall into the transgender classification. We all have our own opinions and some have some very strong conclusions on how they ought to be tagged (if labeled at all). Other popular terms are Tgirl, gurl, tranny, sissy, and more; however these labels are often associated with fornication (here in So Cal anyway). On that same note it seems that “transvestite” is regularly identified with sexual connotations in many places as well.

As a heterosexual male who, when dressing as a female I dress complete (i.e. makeup, wig, undergarments) I've been taught by those in my area who possess a lengthy CD history that I am a transvestite. When I’m dressed as a male I do not under-dress, it's either one or the other in its entirety.

I’m sure there will be many opinions on this, and I’m interested to hear what other’s think.

Thanks Robyn. Hi Olivia...the labels are confusing and seem to mean whatever we personally want them to mean. I am using transgender just as Robyn has stated as an umbrella term which paints with a very broad brush. Some narrow it down and I wonder to myself...gee would I be considered transgender? I mean I have no desire to progress toward surgery, I do not live full time as a woman, I do not leave the house dressed as a woman either, unless a few drives in my car dressed in the middle of the night counts, I have very rarely been outside my house dressed unless It seems deserted. Who knows some day I may very well do so but not yet. I do not like the term cross dresser I know it is a fairly factual statement but to me trans GENDER is important. For the past few days seems I have been fully centered on the male side, I am a male, born that way. I have been forced by social norms and upbringing to live 90% of my life so far as a male. I have been raised and socialized as a male, my brain is hard wired male (it works that way when processing information, women's brains process information differently). I have been fully dressed in my male clothing. And my masculinity has been prominent. I have had no desire to be any other way for a while....Does not mean I am not transgender or at the very least a transvestite (without the fetish or sexual associations of that term)? No. My gender does go back and forth. When my feminine gender is prominent I have an intense feeling of being feminine (just as I believe masculinity or any gender identity is an intense feeling) and all the desires that go with it, including desiring to feel consistent by wearing feminine clothing. (we strongly identify as being one gender or the other depending on this intense feeling If I always felt masculine I would not be transgender) It sounds very simplistic but this is all I have been able to narrow gender down to - an intense feeling and of strong identity with being one or the other) My sexual orientation however remains constant, I am a heterosexual male, and always prefer being with women only, I am attracted to women only. I have no desire to have surgery of any kind because my gender goes back and forth, I may have my ears pierced, I may grow my hair longer too If a woman were to encourage me to do so, but wigs suffice for now. Across my life this overwhelming overpowering intensity of feeling comes and goes one way then the other seemingly at random and is beyond my ability to control. I may suppress dressing, or hide the feelings but when they are there there is nothing I can do about them. Started when I was about 9 years old about the time when I first found opportunity and the desire was there to try on a piece of feminine clothing for the rest of my life that part of myself was permanently awakened, or I became aware I was like this.

Lastly, we are all unique in our experience our desires, motivations, the origin of our dressing or crossing the barrier. I have read and tried to understand the term transgender, and the myriad of various forms of expression it can be very complex---gender queer, and other terms. I do believe I can say I am a transvestite, and can call myself transgender because it seems to be generally recognized as an umbrella term generally if not specifically by specialists in the field of gender studies - the psychiatrists.

Here is something from an APA American Psychological Association article: Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth. Gender identity refers to a person’s internal sense of being male, female or something else; gender expression refers to the way a person communicates gender identity to others through behavior, clothing, hairstyles, voice or body characteristics. “Trans” is sometimes used as shorthand for “transgender.” While transgender is generally a good term to use, not everyone whose appearance or behavior is gender-nonconforming will identify as a transgender person. The ways that transgender people are talked about in popular culture, academia and science are constantly changing, particularly as individuals’ awareness, knowledge and openness about transgender people and their experiences grow.

Because I do not feel consistently feminine I wonder myself well...perhaps I am not transgender?? A transsexual always...100% of the time from an early age "know" they are female trapped in the wrong body and can only obtain relief through SRS. Well, I am not transsexual does that mean I am not transgender? Or to be transgender do I have to feel consistently female 100% of the time yet have no desire to transition or have SRS?

APA...There is no single explanation for why some people are transgender. The diversity of transgender expression and experiences argues against any simple or unitary explanation. Many experts believe that biological factors such as genetic influences and prenatal hormone levels, early experiences, and experiences later in adolescence or adulthood may all contribute to the development of transgender identities.

http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.apadivisions.org/division-44 ... ildren.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps I am Gender Diverse? I do not believe I have gender dysphoria I am not upset that I have a male body, was born that way. : Gender diverse children (also known as gender non-conforming, gender creative, or
gender variant) express their gender in ways that are not consistent with socially prescribed
gender roles or identities. Their preferences for toys, clothing, sports, activities, playmates, hair
length and style, and/or accessories are not expected in the culture based on their sex assigned
at birth. Gender diverse children are usually perceived to be feminine boys and masculine
girls. In fact, some gender diverse children may occasionally talk about wanting to be or
wishing they were the other gender or saying they are the other gender. Some gender diverse
children occasionally talk about being “half ” boy or “half ” girl (e.g., “I’m a boy on the bottom,
and a girl on the top”).

In the end it all seems to defy being nailed down and it seems to depend on which expert you talk to, they seem to use all of this so loosely and seem to be making up new terms so who the hell really knows? There are a few set things like Transvestite/Cross dresser, Transgender, Transsexual, Gender Dysphoria, Gender Identity Disorder (now obsolete?) and "A pervasive, consistent, persistent and insistent sense of being the other gender and some degree of gender dysphoria are unique characteristics of transgender children. - the consistent...persistent...insistent thing there is some framework that is consistent but now it all seems to be just a huge mess as they try to wrap their arms around it so and not to exclude anyone or hurt anyone's feelings if they feel they are a certain way and want to say I am "X" see it is a real diagnosis - ARRRRGH!!!!

I suppose if one thing is "consistent...persistent...insistent..." it is that I have been this way from a very early age and this going back and forth does not change - so there I am consistent persistent and insistent! In a sense anyway sign me up for the LGBT club, give me my card! But I do not have gender dysphoria...and I am not Consistent, persistent, or insistent that my gender is feminine 100% of the time and that does to be a pretty set criteria.

I do believe I can if I am not really "transgender" claim that I am a transvestite that is about all that I am sure about and that is enough...I may not like the term mildly so but I do cross dress, I am a cross dresser which is just aesthetically more pleasing than the term "transvestite." But why not call it what it is using the official APA term?

*Sigh* It is so complicated!!!! In the end what difference does a label make anyway, I am as I am and It sounds as if few would kick me out from under the term "transgender" used as an umbrella term. But the term itself is not very important does not change how or who I am. Hum...recently in the news is a white lady running around claiming to be black - hahahahahahaha!!! If she can claim to be black in the sense that that is how she feels, she identifies with and feels she is black and people from the NAACP are defending her claim then surely those who are LGBT would defend my feeling that I am transgender in the sense that I feel transgender, and I Identify with and feel that I am transgender - hey there ya go!

Sorry for the rambling. Robyn gave the best answer.

Anne Bonny wrote:Here is something from an APA American Psychological Association article:

Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth. Gender identity refers to a person’s internal sense of being male, female or something else; gender expression refers to the way a person communicates gender identity to others through behavior, clothing, hairstyles, voice or body characteristics. “Trans” is sometimes used as shorthand for “transgender.” While transgender is generally a good term to use, not everyone whose appearance or behavior is gender-nonconforming will identify as a transgender person.

I struggle with the term transgender and don't really like it. Maybe some of the reason is:

Gender identity refers to a person’s internal sense of being male, female or something else...

I don't have an internal sense of any of these. Like I don't feel like "something else". I have a quite definite internal sense of being something (without the else). That is a sort of person who is somewhere in between a man and a woman. In a way, I feel offended that that there isn't a specific term for that - and, perhaps more importantly, I feel angry and lost and unrecognised by society because there isn't one. I know people will say transgender covers it, but, for me, intergender is a more accurate description of where I am.

I hear ya. You know I struggled and struggled with this - so much so that I am sure quite a few on this site wanted me to just leave! And...all I came out with is my sense that gender is an intense feeling inside myself along with feeling a strong sense of identity with women. I know I am not a woman and can never be my brain does not even process information in the same way. Mannerisms, and voice - no change at all, perhaps I am not as aggressive and am a little bit softer but if so I do not do any of this consciously. It is all this internal feeling which comes to prominence pushing my masculine self out of the way, my desires become feminine I want to feel consistent through and through so my clothing and outward appearance follow. It is something I cannot control it is overwhelming and overpowering. But I can restrain myself and dress male outwardly, and I can be masculine to hide this from others even though all of this is going on inside of me. Some people exude femininity or masculinity, I have I am sure we all have seen men exuding flamboyant femininity naturally, effortlessly they are not doing it it is just how they are all the time. I am never flamboyant, and do not exude anything but my normal self which is male, but the internal feeling is sure there that's for sure.

Don't know about trans gender, I have thought of myself as having mixed gender but never both at once one predominates or the other it goes back and forth. Gender Variance was the other term, and that seems to indicate the idea of shifting which could be back and forth. Yeah trans or cross...gender like trans vestite or cross dressing. Oh well.

Some interesting statements here including:

Anthony Simon wrote:intergender is a more accurate description of where I am.

In my personal opinion Intergender falls under the transgender umbrella as well, but there is debate over this term too.
…and

Anne Bonny wrote:gender expression refers to the way a person communicates gender identity to others through behavior, clothing, hairstyles, voice or body characteristics.

…which describes what most of us on this site do.

Anne Bonny wrote:It sounds very simplistic but this is all I have been able to narrow gender down to - an intense feeling and of strong identity with being one or the other

I commend you for that Anne. I’ve discovered the simplicity in my behavior which is that I like to feel pretty. I had a liking for cute shoes, pretty dresses, and the image of a female all dolled up from a young age. My male side is alive and well, but on a regular basis I like to feel pretty so I put on makeup and don a dress. It feels good emotionally, makes me happy, and I always have fun while socializing as Robyn.

I want to start by saying that you are an amazingly smart Anne. You always make me think more about where I am and where I'm going in this journey. Sometimes I have to read multiple times to get everything you say. So I guess I am a Transgender transvestite crossdresser. Transgender because I dress as a woman. Transvestite when I present as a woman completely. And a crossdresser when I underdress. In one of the articles Anne linked, it only used transgender and crossdresser, and I thought they described what I do as crossdressing. I thought a transvestite was a little flamboyant, not quite drag queenish. Maybe it has to do with the sex thing, but different than just trying to look like a woman. But I am with Anne, Robyn, and Anthony Simon in the club for men who want to express a feminine side to there identity sometimes. Maybe there will be a term for us one day. Thanks to all for being here and providing a place for these discussions.

Olivia

Hmm. So much confusion possibilities with all these labels. I told my counselor I am transgender, feel like a (trans)woman all the time, but when I am not complete (aka makeup and wig at my work) I feel like a tomboy.

Now today in the morning I am going to have my face laser-ed (4th time) and then I see my counselor again right after lunch, so I told her you will see me without makeup and wig, and she told me she don't care, you are yourself.

Now in the Netherlands, so I have read, a transgender who does not have realignment surgery is called a transgenderist.

I have heard at a meeting with other transgenders that a genderqueer or genderfluid (?) is a person that wakes up one day feels like he is masculine, the next day he wakes up she feels feminine. And one day she feels like neither one.

So... darn labels... just be yourself and call yourself what you think is best.

Erin.

Yeah...I agree. Too much of labels they are not that important. Intergender whoa there's an interesting twist on it all. I will just call myself Transgender and a transvestite. If I tell anybody I just tell them I am transgender I think that is pretty accurate and people know what it means. I have a guy side and a gal side and it just depends how I feel at a particular time and I am happy. I am what I am both sides together make that up so I am a whole person. I prefer to be friends with and be around those who are able to accept all of who I am, If they don't, unless they are very special or are family, not an in-law then they are gone out of my life because I don't want them around, have had enough of that in my life and I am not going to put up with that anymore.