Crossdressers-Haven.com

I have noticed that active posts are very few and far between... there are few posts to respond to and few who respond to mine...I suppose they have moved on. I remember back only a few years ago and this was not the case. Kind of lonely and sad too. sigh....

Hi Anne,

Not quite its no different on other forums for those who have different subjects and different agender,s or is just not hot enough for some as I am well aware of and for some I,m on I don't write much , as I have found out some are just … A wont to live in a fantasy land ...so I,m learning to not say or write , I read a lot and the issue is many subjects are just a can of worm,s so no point going into it so I,m just leaving as is and keep out of it,

I have a life and is full of many different things and very involved with 100,s of people well a few 1000, and what we do most on the forums don't wont to know .In one forum I have a few friends and they know pretty much about myself our family and what we do and all aspects of life and I get the same from them ,I know the subject matter is on the forum totally out side of here and other forums yet we most often don't bring it up, our women only forum is about us and covers every detail of life for us and that is real life and how we live, and we all have aspects that we have incommon . so I quess being part of society as we are is what we are about,

yes we do talk about fashion clothes and makeup.
and of cause female talk that relates to us , men are not included and nor would they as they are not going to wont to even listen to us , men have their playing field and so do we plus we don't play the same game and that's just life,


One detail I did learn is I can not talk with men in the same way as I do with females , one reason is our bodys are different and some just go blank and think are we for real as they walk away they shake their head and don't get it,

...noeleena...

Hi noleena, glad to hear from you. I am glad I have found myself finally so I am who I am..GaEnOnReGE that is I am an alloy and the emphasis shifts as feelings intensify or wane as does my appearance as well as who I choose to reveal my female side to which is not to many but that is my choice I am not suffering because of it.

I agree Anne,

Simply put, I still visit every 60 or 90 days, and find little that is new, novel or of interest for discussion. Maybe it has to do with most of us being older and some sort of subtle acceptance or even possibly just moving on. Perhaps as I think we discussed somewhere, forums such as this have fallen out of favor or never of interest to the younger crowd.

I personally find myself less engaged here as the focus has shifted from being a "Crossdressers-Haven" to a "Transgender-Haven."

Wesley wrote:I personally find myself less engaged here as the focus has shifted from being a "Crossdressers-Haven" to a "Transgender-Haven."

I assure you that is NOT by my intention, in any way, shape or form.

I am not saying that TGs are not welcome here, because they are. But the main focus on this forum always has been, and always will be, on the CD, just as the name states.

That said, lately more of the posts have been made by our members who happened to have transitioned.


- SL

SilverLady(SO) wrote: That said, lately more of the posts have been made by our members who happened to have transitioned.

Perhaps that is because those of us who "have transitioned" have more to say or are more vocal or more comfortable with ourselves or even not being driven back into the closet.

Wesley wrote:I personally find myself less engaged here as the focus has shifted from being a "Crossdressers-Haven" to a "Transgender-Haven."

Wesley perhaps the reason there seem to be less posts is people have drifted away from this site like you admit to for whatever reason. I know myself back when I joined I thought just a crossdresser however through some deep thought and the help of a qualified therapist I discovered I was more. I know I do not come here as much as I used to but my life has become much more full but I still attempt to get here a couple of times a week to check on new posts and respond if I have something to say and sometimes avail myself of the chat room to catch up with the many friends I have made here.

Wesley I have read many of your previous posts and there are times you almost seem anti TG. What you and others may not realize is the rights many of those TGs, particularly the pioneers out there, have fought for and continue to allow the CD community to come out of the closet and live their lives as they see fit and not bound by stereotypes and bigotry. Yes in some cases a CD and a TG have different slants on things but while I do not know that many TGs those I do know have nothing but respect and love for the CD.

I don't know if you have been to a Pride Parade but I have attended more than a few though I do admit to missing it this year due to a previous engagement however I will be there again next year. I bring this up because while you see CDs out there marching when it comes to getting down in the trenches and actually fighting for rights the CDs are few and far between if there at all. It is the TGs carrying the load there.

Heather,

I am 60 year old, and have crossdressed since I was 12-13. I considered the issue of what I am and where my limits are. I have no desire to be a woman or to surgically and hormonally change my body.

Sorry to sound a bit forward here, but I certainly know where I stand with regards to Crossdressing and Transgenderism. I still presume to be only a crossdresser.

I don't really mind that many TG people follow and post here. But I have little interest in most transgender topics. Not to mention, there is a nice large and active site under the name of "Transgender Heaven" and Transgender forum that would seem to cater exclusively to transgender interests and people.

But it does seem that Transgender issues are crowding out Crossdressing issues here. Given that I only stop by infrequently, and the topics are pretty static, it is easy to discern where new content that is applicable to my interests is located. I get the feeling that crossdressers are the real minority these days, as transgenderism has gone mainstream.

Heather, your comment, "Perhaps that is because those of us who "have transitioned" have more to say or are more vocal or more comfortable with ourselves or even not being driven back into the closet." strikes me as a tad spiteful. Your implication is not appreciated. I don't care to be dictated to by a presumptuous transgender person who feels free to belittle others for having the audacity to insist they are NOT transgender.

You also remarked, "What you and others may not realize is the rights many of those TGs, particularly the pioneers out there, have fought for and continue to allow the CD community to come out of the closet and live their lives as they see fit and not bound by stereotypes and bigotry. " But yet, many certainly seem to feel free to co-opt a crossdressing site for transgender topics. (see the problem? Pot, kettle, black.) BTW, I've not been "in the closet" for years.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt however.

Regards,

Wesley

"...many certainly seem to feel free to co-opt a crossdressing site for transgender topics..."

That contains a fallacious distinction. There is no real distinct dividing line between CDing and TGing (not unless you want to equate being TG with transitioning). The whole idea of "expressing the girl within", so prominent in many of the conversations here, indicates that there is very much a grey area in between. That is people dress up because they want to articulate the woman side of them. Transitioning (MtF) occurs because that isn't adequate for the person concerned; she feels she needs the body (rather than just the clothes) because a woman is what she is in toto, rather than part.

And then, of course, there are people who CD just for the clothes. And people who simply find it hard to put a handle on just why they dress up.

Hi.

Talking about details and things of interest this would mostly be for guys, and because of the work they are involved in and I have friends in the UK and the US who we have things incommon ,

so who,s a machinist in Metal or wood - timber - lumber what ever, how many here are able to fit in and do the work. could you walk in to a machin shop and after a while be able to work the machines .

I spent years doing just that, now you,ll say oh ya your a guy so could Oh,,,,no this is a female talking and yes I did that and still do I have my gear heavy weights and many machines I have made apart from what I brought in and my latest peace is a Metal Lathe made in the UK a Grayson made By them in the 1920,s , this one about 1930 I have the tooling and will need to get more and more gearing, first I,m striping it down for a complete over haul repaint and setting,s and its not the first one I have owned
.
Now I,m not up with the new CNC or milling machinies yet as to a milling one I,ll design and make my own , so you see where I,m going with this I have for a female more interest in what I can do that most trans people and dresser,s would take delight in saying that's not even femininie and would by pass me or right me off as lost it I quess, Well yes I quess they would .


You see some of us fit in to a male world and do.... do as good as they can I wont hammer that more ….lol,s…..so does that make myself not feminine or not a normal female , now my friends in the UK and the US will spend time with me and we talk about what I,m going on about they have no issue with me and one said he would Love for me to be with him as he,d have a great time working with me , you see some of us have aspects that allow for us to ...BE... different yes I can talk about clothes makup and being dressed for a Ball as I have been to a good few .

now here,s some thing how many guys would dance with me or do they see me as a machinist and to maleish for them don't they just wont a sexy hot chic who,s very feminine ,

So heres the bottom line , would any here ask me to dance with them knowing about myself and my interests and my work, or as I see it my work and machine,s will win out,


Okay I come on here almost every night, and when who ever writes I,ll look at and see whats written when it takes my interest and I think I can answer I will, one reason I have written this is to show being a female in not just about clothes makeup and adornments or as refered to just only girly talk, because I.m on many other forums those there wont talk about my side of the coin because they don't wont to or they have their mind on girly talk,, so you see I go on our women only forums because our issues are pertained to just us, and we can be free in our talk and quess what I do talk about my ...other ...interests as I,v just done. plus lots of very sensitive issues we have ,


So as my friends have said I ,m sure not boring and I thought I was . I am in a couple of details oh well another view I quess,

...noeleena...

Wesley I am not sure why I am responding to you as you seem totally set in your thoughts and there is nothing I or anyone else can say that will change your mind. Still you raise a few points I feel need addressing.

I don't want anyone to take offense at this however I am sure some might. I apologize for using the term but I cannot think of a better way of wording it. There is nothing wrong with being "just a crossdresser" however your being as defensive about it as you are does raise questions in my mind. Most TGs started out as crossdressers however for whatever reason discovered they were more. To be honest here I am not sure I can put my finger on what it was exactly that got me to questioning if I weren't more but that is not germane to this discussion. The point is some are truly TG and some are just CD and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! IMO it is not about being straight or CD or TG or whatever but instead about finding yourself and being happy with who and what you are.

I can appreciate you have no interest in reading TG issues and posts and that is your right to do so. I will add here that it seems to at least me you harbor a resentment towards those of us that are TG and are telling us to go away and only interact with those like you by pointing out there are sites aimed more directly at the TG individual. I do wonder though how you are so aware of these and they are "nice and active"?

While you may feel the crossdresser is in the minority they are the vast majority of what falls under the umbrella of what is called transgendered. I for one disagree with lumping all under a single term and feel it does an injustice to both sides. As I said before CDs and TGs have very different issues and they need to be addressed accordingly. However as I also said before they do both have the common desire to be seen as just people and not abnormalities or aberrations or freaks and there the two groups intersect.

Back when I thought of myself as a crossdresser I joined and was somewhat active in a local crossdresser group. In a way it was that which got me to thinking I was perhaps more and I started to seek help in discovering whether I was or not. For a while after I started my transition I went to the meetings but eventually stopped. Not because I didn't enjoy the meetings and I had made friends there some I am still friends with today but rather I felt I was becoming a distraction to the group and its goals. My priorities had changed and rather than try to change the group I saw it for what it was and the good it was doing and moved on.

You are entitled to your opinion to my possible reasons the activity here has decreased but I can assure it was it no way meant to be spiteful. I was merely offering my thoughts on why this is and I have my reasons behind them but those are not for public discussion. As for "being dictated to" one can only be dictated to if they allow themselves to be. You and I and many members here are Americans and entitled to think and feel what we want however we are also entitled to be free from "being dictated to" regardless of who it is doing the dictating though obviously with legal and moral considerations.

I for one as well as the other members I know well through here and those I know personally never had any intentions of co-opting this or any other forum. We have attempted to offer advice, help, understanding, and support as well as on occasion expressing an opinion. You are entitled to feel as you do however I would be interested in hearing others' opinion on this.

I do not know Wesley if you are aware of or even care but I have a little blog on this site. I raised the subject of the declining number of posts there in hopes of getting any who read my thoughts to think about that and hopefully reinvigorate this forum. As for more of the posts recently being from TGs I am reminded of a favorite saying of a friend of mine. "If you throw enough sh1t against the wall hopefully some of it will stick!" In other words we are hoping we will get others to thinking and start posting with whatever is on their mind or questions or adventures.

Now Wesley on more of a personal note. Before responding to you initially I read some of your posts. One stands out to me where you bemoan the lack of a Tri-Ess chapter near you and the general decline of chapters across the country. IMO believe Tri-Ess serves a valuable role as studies show 75% or more of CDs are heterosexual. My question to you is what have you done to change this? It is easy to sit around and complain but if you truly want something to happen you have to get out of your chair and do something.

I don't remember who it was but someone responding to one of my posts in my blog said something like "it is better to light a candle than swear at the darkness." My question to you is are the one who turns the light on or you the type who swears at the chair you stubbed you toe on because you failed to flip the switch? Just in case you don't have any matches handy I for one am more than happy to give you one.

I agree with you 1000% if not more girlfriend!

Heather W wrote: IMO it is not about being straight or CD or TG or whatever but instead about finding yourself and being happy with who and what you are.

Truer words have never been spoken. It seems so many are more concerned with trying to fit in a defined box rather than defining the box they fit in and just accepting who and what they are and being happy with that. We are all individuals and possess our own special and unique characteristics and space. Rather than trying to be like everyone else celebrate who you are and those differences that make you the person you are.

Anthony I disagree with you here. There is a very distinct line between the CD and the TG. Those that blur that line are generally those who perceive themselves as a woman because they like the clothes or similar reasons. They are referred to as a "want to be" in my world. For the most part the true CD is the same person regardless of which gender they are presenting. In a way their dressing up is like an actor playing a role. Unfortunately same as an actor can become stereotyped for a role they play the CD can also be stereotyped by outdated beliefs most which are wrong, homophobia, and bigotry.

You are correct Anthony in there is more for the TG than just the clothes however it is not generally body issues in the beginning. Yes it is dressing up that causes them to question things and seek help and answers to the most basic question of where do I really belong? Some discover their place yet choose to never act on that while others myself included take steps including transition and even gender affirmation surgery. Many who transition never have GAS for whatever reason, financial is what I found to be the most prevalent through my research though there are others, however they are no less a woman than those who do or even a genetic female.

I do want to thank you Noeleena for pointing out the difference between being feminine or masculine and being a woman or a man. I have a friend who also happened to be one of my roommates back in college who is very much a tomboy. Add to that she has a degree in civil engineering and now works in the very male dominated environment of road construction. We do joke that she cleans up pretty well when the occasion arises and she needs to dress up though her preferred attire is jeans and a t shirt. I can probably count on my two hands the number of times I have seen her in a skirt or a dress over the 7 or so years I have know her. Still that doesn't mean she is any less a woman than a girly girl like me. Sadly way too many confuse being feminine and being a woman and allow the old stereotypes to cloud their opinions.

Heather W wrote:I will add here that it seems to at least me you harbor a resentment towards those of us that are TG and are telling us to go away and only interact with those like you by pointing out there are sites aimed more directly at the TG individual. I do wonder though how you are so aware of these and they are "nice and active"?

Let's be clear, I have not inferred that anyone on this venue did not belong or should "go away and only interact with those like you. . ."

However, with such reparette wit and double entendre responses. How could anyone possibly be laboring under that misapprehension? The listing of alternative sites belies the reality of the current status of "transgender" vs. "crossdresser" in the numbers of google "hits. Specifically, Transgender, 172,000,000. Crossdresser alone, with no mention of transgender 13,000,000. Exposure to transgenderism is widespread in contemporary society.

No I get it, the term, and probably the concept of "crossdressing" are actively falling out of vogue, as everyone is eager to embrace the concept of transgender. Real data to support my assertion are rare these days. As I have always maintained, especially going back to my concerns regarding the decline of Tri-ess, and the concerns that those who DO crossdress are different from those of the transgender crowd. You did acknowledge that fact:

Heather W wrote: As I said before CDs and TGs have very different issues and they need to be addressed accordingly. However as I also said before they do both have the common desire to be seen as just people and not abnormalities or aberrations or freaks and there the two groups intersect.

And, while you acknowledge they also have similar concerns, some areas of discussion are predicated on concerns other than strictly centered on the crossdresser. I would submit that introducing younger crossdressers to crossdressing websites with unmoderated transgenders is not without consequence. In the same way, consider the casual crossdresser who wants to introduce his wife or family to the idea of crossdressing without the idea that he wants to be "a woman?" The result is minimized or ignored totally. Who cares about the damage it might to do a fragile family, right? As I mentioned several times in the Tri-ess issue, "You know what the difference between a crossdresser and a transgender is? A: about two years. . " Your commentary indirectly reflects this. You are quite sensitive to the needs and wants of transgender individuals, however, crossdressers will be treated as "confused."

And yeah, I do have an issue with that.

No I don't think your comments are intended to be spiteful. But as noted, they do seem to belie an insensitivity to those who have yet to elected to adopt the label of "Transgender"

Heather W wrote:I for one as well as the other members I know well through here and those I know personally never had any intentions of co-opting this or any other forum.

Nor do I feel you have any nefarious intention to co-opt this forum, however, historically, this is how Tri-ess diminished. . . I am pointing out a trend.

Heather W wrote:IMO believe Tri-Ess serves a valuable role as studies show 75% or more of CDs are heterosexual. My question to you is what have you done to change this? It is easy to sit around and complain but if you truly want something to happen you have to get out of your chair and do something.

I suspect something went amiss in your final sentence. Why would I want to change the sexual identity of an organization that appears to be dying? An organization that does not subscribe wholesale to the idea that all who crossdress are destined to become transgender. Or that crossdressers are destined to become transgender.

Yes, I do bemoan the loss of Tri-ess nationwide and locally. You imply that I have done nothing to remedy that, and you would be wrong.

WARNING THE DISCUSSION MAKES A DARK INTROSPECTION OF REALITY AFTER THIS POINT.

"It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." It was Carl Sagan in "The Demon haunted world." He discusses the dissemination of accurate knowledge.

I would offer this theory about the difference between crossdressing and post sex change individuals. It's only a theory, its not my theory but it is also cautionary about being in a hurry to cross that line.

There is a very high rate of juvenile and adolescents who consider themselves "Transgender."[1] Conversely, There is also a high rate of suicide in individuals who have undergone sexual reassignment. Typically 10 to 20 years later.[2] At least one Psychologist at Johns Hopkins has commented:

"Transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men. All (including Bruce Jenner) become feminized men or masculinized women, counterfeits or impersonators of the sex with which they ‘identify.’ In that lies their problematic future."

He goes on to point out:

"When ‘the tumult and shouting dies,’ it proves not easy nor wise to live in a counterfeit garb. McHugh points to the reality that because sex change is physically impossible, it frequently does not provide the long-term wholeness and happiness that people seek. The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over 30 years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest. Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers."

From another article[3]

"Guardian Weekend asked Birmingham University's Aggressive Research Intelligence Facility (Arif) to assess the findings of more than 100 follow-up studies of post-operative transsexuals. Arif, which conducts reviews of healthcare treatments for the NHS, concludes that none of the studies provides conclusive evidence that gender reassignment is beneficial for patients. It found that most research was poorly designed, which skewed the results in favour of physically changing sex. There was no evaluation of whether other treatments, such as long-term counselling, might help transsexuals, or whether their gender confusion might lessen over time. Arif says the findings of the few studies that have tracked significant numbers of patients over several years were flawed because the researchers lost track of at least half of the participants. The potential complications of hormones and genital surgery, which include deep vein thrombosis and incontinence respectively, have not been thoroughly investigated, either. "There is huge uncertainty over whether changing someone's sex is a good or a bad thing," says Dr Chris Hyde, director of Arif. "While no doubt great care is taken to ensure that appropriate patients undergo gender reassignment, there's still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatised - often to the point of committing suicide."[3]

I want you to understand, I am not trying to dissuade you from being transgender. I respect our individuality and you decision to become transgender. Just understand, There is more to the issue than may seem obvious. The problem seems to be when you elect to change gender, a strong discordant manifests in your psyche. The pre-sex change counseling either ignores or glosses over that issue. Not to mention, counseling is geared to help you accept your decisions. It does not help or insure the rest of society will accept that decision or that decision will not be without cost. Nor does this info indicate all transgender end with a bad outcome. They won't, but the risk is there.

Now, I say all this as one who crossdresses. Crossdressers also undergoes stress, but when you undergo a sex reassignment, you lock that decision into your body. For crossdressers, the stress generally stops post orgasmically or after a period of wearing clothing of the opposite sex.

I'll leave it at that.


[1] https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/ ... /e20174218" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[2] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/artic ... ne.0016885" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[3] https://www.theguardian.com/society/200 ... socialcare" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"WARNING THE DISCUSSION MAKES A DARK INTROSPECTION OF REALITY AFTER THIS POINT."

I laughed out loud when I read that. This one guy at John Hopkins saying this incredibly inflammatory stuff and we're supposed to take it seriously?!

You raise some interesting points here Wesley. First off psychologists are human and have opinions and even among those who agree on a given subject there can be disagreement on the hows and whys of it. Personally I find healthy and quality disagreement leads to further studies and research, each hopefully getting closer us to the real answers. Particularly with the resource of the internet one can find an expert to agree with just about any viewpoint. I am not challenging the validity of your research so let's not turn this into dueling footnotes.

Before I start a thumbnail about myself. I was barely 15 when I told my mother I was a girl. Obviously she went through tremendous consternation before thankfully seeking answers. She eventually contacted a local LGBT organization who put her in contact with someone who happened to be a post operative trans woman and they met and talked. Then I met with this individual and after several talks she got my mother and I to understand the best next step was to talk with a trained professional as she was not one. A side note here while not a credentialed professional she may have more knowledge on the subject than many who are having lived the life. I will also admit I considered suicide prior to telling my mother seeing my life as hopeless.

It was before my 16th birthday when I had my first therapy session. Honestly I was scared almost out of my mind and had absolutely no idea what to expect or what was expected from me. I do not know Wesley if you or any of you have ever been to therapy however what one expects and what actually happens are very different. My therapist helped me explore down to my soul many times making me answer questions that led to other questions not only from him but more importantly myself. It was probably the 3rd or 4th session before the subject of gender even came up. Flash forward and I started Hormone Replacement Therapy when I was 17 and formally began my transition the day after I graduated high school eventually having my GAS at 22 after receiving my bachelor's degree. Yes there is more to my story however hopefully you can see I speak here from not only the aspect of a psychologist but also one who has real life experience.

Yes there is a higher suicide rate among those who identify as transgendered and there are countless studies out there that show this. However there is also a higher suicide rate among adolescents and teenagers. Unfortunately there is no scientific method to ascertain the actual reasons behind either of these although I have my opinions here as I am sure you do as well. Studies and research are great but without the whys behind them they are just statistics. Yes in some cases we have the "suicide note" but do they really get to the true causes and thoughts behind that individual seeing life as hopeless? Again the opinions here vary. Obviously each case is unique however any trained professional will tell you look for common threads.

In the case of the transgendered individual IMO it has to do with them seeing transition and GAS as an end all to their issues. Life is hard enough for most now add in the fact there are always those who see you as what you were not who you are many times resulting in total rejection, the discrimination sometimes overt but many times covert, the general lack of knowledge by the public about the transgendered community, the voices proclaiming you as a sinner and an abomination of nature, and then add in the issues faced from day to day life. I hope you can see where I am going with this.

While it may seem I am laying the responsibility for at least some of these suicides at the feet of the population. Yes some of it belongs there but also I fault the psychologists and psychiatrists treating the transgendered individual. Yes we can identify the true TG from the want to be and help them adapt to their new life as they transition however most see their job as "mission accomplished" once a client has surgery. Having lived the life I can tell you that is perhaps when the help is needed the most.

I was blessed to have had and still do have that individual in my life. She stayed with me throughout explaining how things were truly like out there for a woman such as myself and while I was all woman there were many out there who did not understand that and probably never would. I am one of the fortunate ones having the love and support of most of my family and others, sadly many who walked the same path I did do not.

In reference to your quote from a psychologist saying those who transition and have GAS are not "real" women or men I respectfully disagree. Yes I do not have the reproductive organs of a genetic female however being a woman or a man has nothing to do that. It is an essence, an inner sense and feeling, a sense of being. It has nothing to do with gender markers. I have no idea what he meant by his remarks however at least to me it seems curious to be polite.

As for his comment of living in "counterfeit garb" attire is dictated by society. Who is to say what "garb" is right or wrong? As I have said to all my clients there is a lot more to being a woman than a skirt and heels. If anything his comments only reinforce my earlier comments that after care of some sort is needed to help one cope with the new life a surgically corrected TG now faces, both the bad and the good.

On a personal note here I have zero regrets about my choices or the path to get where I am. Life is no easier on this side of the gender curtain and I believe all women both genetic and trans will tell you life is harder than it is for a man. I cannot speak for all trans women however for me there is a satisfaction of living my life as I should have been born.

Wesley your statistics concerning the number of "hits" using transgender versus crossdresser are actually irrelevant as today they are generally lumped into a single category. I do not agree with this as the needs are very different but it does raise a point. There is a vast amount of information out there but of what quality? There have always been snake oil salesmen out there and if anything the internet has proliferated that. Yes there is excellent information available however some of the references and information my clients have told me about curdles my blood. There is no possible any way any individual or even group of individuals can come to close to digesting the sheer volume of what is out there and assess it for its quality or even truthfulness. I and just about everyone else here has always recommended to anyone even talking about they think they may be TG to start with a therapist properly versed in gender issues. This is critical for all but especially the young CD or TG or whatever. There are many well meaning people out there including TGs however if they do not truly know what to do or only draw on personal experiences they can very easily cause permanent harm. What is it they say? A little bit of knowledge can be dangerous. To any and all who read this if you think you may be TG please start with a qualified professional. This is not something you can do on your own!

As a therapist I resent your comments how therapy glosses over or ignores the changes a TG will undergo even from transitioning let alone GAS as well as it is aimed at reinforcing the client's decision. First off there is no such thing as "pre sex change counseling" it is gender counseling. While every therapist has their own style of achieving it the role of any therapist is to ask questions and allow the client to come up with the answers, not give answers. Having been through it as well as practicing it now I can say some of the questions are hard and require soul searching and being totally open and honest with your therapist. Yes I have had clients walk out or not make that next appointment. One of the first things I tell a new client is it may be uncomfortable at times however I cannot help you until you are ready to be helped.

Sadly there are practitioners out there that may be less than scrupulous, think of a puppy mill here. It exists in every profession and at every level. They see clients as revenue rather than people who have said to themselves I need help and am seeking it. There are those who advertise "We don't prescribe HRT until the 12th visit" or whatever. There is no timetable IMO for every client is unique. It is a matter of assisting the client in coming up with answers, then discussing the possible paths available and the advantages and disadvantages of each and allowing the client to make their own choice. Yes there is some reinforcement from time to time once a client chooses their path especially if it is transition with an eye to GAS as everyone will question their choice particularly a life changing one such as this. I will say there are clients out there who will stop therapy when they start transition or shortly after that but I believe it is perhaps even more needed then and even after GAS. As I said before GAS is not an end all but rather the beginning to a new phase of your life. I will reiterate here that a solid support system is critical for the success of any and all regardless of situation.

Your statement of: "you know the difference between a crossdresser and a transgender is? A: about two years ..." is just plainly wrong! Because so many remain closeted the true numbers are not and probably never will be known but the generally accepted number is there are between 25 and 30 CDs to every TG if not more. Like being gay being TG or even a CD is not something you become you are born that way. Yes some do not come to the realization until later in life and some never come to truly accept it or if they do never act on it however that does not change the fact of what they are.

There is a tremendous difference between the TG and the CD and their needs just as unique. Perhaps the needs of the CD is even more difficult to address due to the differing levels and tendencies of CDs. I have a couple of clients who are just CD and each of them is unique, even more so than my TG clients. I had one of my CD clients who has been seeing me for a while ask if I thought they were TG recently. I asked if she thought she was and she said no. I did have to agree with her. As I said the role of a therapist is to assist in discovering oneself not tell someone what they are.

Now let us return to your opinion the transgenders have hijacked this forum. I was asked to consider join here by a couple of friends who happen to be members. Sadly one of them is no longer active here as IMO she can be a tremendous asset to the members. They felt because of my background I could be of help to some and I like to think I have been. I had no evil plan to take over and TBH probably visit and post less than I did in the beginning although obviously more recently. I too saw the decline of new posts and have my opinions as to why. I would perhaps suggest maybe you post a few new threads Wesley as at least this post seems to have increased the activity.

Anthony not sure I laughed out loud but I did chuckle when I read my allegedly esteemed colleague's comment. As I told Wesley with the internet one can find some self proclaimed expert to agree with you on just about any opinion regardless of how unbased in fact it is even if it is the world is flat. Still everyone is entitled to their opinion regardless of how inane it may seem to others.

Thank you Amanda for your response. You are far more qualified to respond to much of this than someone who gets paid to doodle. I will add my 2 cents here to the Johns Hopkins psychologist concerning the post operative TG. As you said Amanda everyone is entitled to their opinion but I would be curious as to what other conspiracy theories he ascribes to.

Wesley thank you for informing me of the origin of the candle quote. I guess I could have Googled it to learn the source but I really didn't think that was important however the quote was. I hope you took my offer of a match as I would be willing to help you in any way I can if you want.

As you pointed out there is a huge amount of information out there even with "just" 13,000,000 hits on crossdressing. However as Amanda very accurately points out what are they are and how correct? You talk about the young CD being exposed to "unmoderated transgenders" however what about all the other fabrications, outright lies, and myths floating around in cyberspace? Most TGs I know will admit while it was right for them agree this is not the path for all, far from it. I am sure there may be some that will rave about how wonderful life is on this side and encourage all to come along. I know of none like that personally. This is a moderated forum and just about everyone here has always told any one questioning to seek professional help. While I am sure there are other quality websites out there how does one know?

As I said when I joined here when I thought of myself as a CD. Yes I had questions and as they became more frequent and louder to me I mentioned it to several here and to a one they all told me the place to begin was seeing a qualified professional. I did and found the path that was right for me. I nor would just about everyone here ever recommend anyone do anything drastic before seeking qualified professional assistance. I guess the question is how do we steer the questioning particularly the young CD or TG to the good sites and away from the bad ones? I have no idea and open to suggestions.

Don't know if you caught it but I mentioned I used to belong to a local CD support group but left after beginning my transition and said: "My priorities had changed and rather than try to change the group I saw it for what it was and the good it was doing and moved on." I have no idea what happened in some of the Tri Ess chapters however as you will remember I said I felt it served a good purpose. Rather than attempting to parse every word take time to read between the lines. I feel Tri Ess is a valuable resource to many within the CD community and it should be active and available to all who can benefit from it. If anything I was challenging you to stand up and do something about it rather than whining about its demise. You say you have and I take you at your word. Again if there is anything I can do to be help feel free to ask.

As for your comment that the difference between a crossdresser and a transgendered is 2 years? Well that is just so freaking wrong it is laughable! I certainly hope it was offered in jest and you do not believe that.

Having at one time thought of myself as a crossdresser I know how confusing it is. Trust me when one begins to question if you aren't more and are truly TG and you discover you are it is that confusing and more. IMO I have never looked down at a crossdresser and never will. I still have friends from the support group I used to belonged to and get together with them from time to time and have even attended a couple of their meetings since my GAS. I have previously acknowledged the needs of the CD and TG are very different. Yes with some they converge at times however I recognize and respect the differences as well. The TG needs support and love but so does the CD.

Yes there has been a decline in the number of posts here from CDs here as well as a decline in Tri Ess and other CD support groups. Even my friends who belong to the local support group have mentioned it. IMO the TG has nothing to do with it. As I said I have my opinions as far as why it is occurring here. I also want you to think about why it is happening elsewhere though. I am not that old, 37, but have been "out" for quite a few years and I have seen a tremendous change in attitude towards the CD. Back in my earliest days locally there were two bars aimed at the CD crowd, a couple of restaurants where one could go and not be harassed, and at best a handful of stores and shops where we felt somewhat welcome. Things have changed and more mainstream businesses not only welcome but also solicit the CD business. While I still believe there is a need for support groups could this changing attitude have anything to do with the decline you cite? I believe it does at least in part but that is just my opinion.