Intolerance Rears its Ugly Head Again

How are you dealing with or handling this aspect of your life?

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Lorna
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Post by Lorna »

Well, looky what we have here... :-k

Dear Lorna:

No establishment in New York City can refuse to serve you or any other TG. If they are a public accommodation, and E of 8 is, they may not discriminate. New York City law states:

Be it enacted by the Council as follows:

Section 1. Legislative findings and intent. The City Council finds and declares that it is in the interest of the City of New York to protect its citizens from discrimination. Discrimination, prejudice, intolerance and bigotry directly and profoundly threaten the rights and freedom of New Yorkers. The City Council established the Human Rights Law to protect its inhabitants from these dangers. Included in the City's Human Rights Law is a prohibition of discrimination against individuals based on gender. The scope of this gender-based protection, however, requires clarification. This local law is intended to make clear that all gender-based discrimination - including, but not limited to, discrimination based on an individual's actual or perceived sex, and discrimination based on an individual's gender identity, self-image, appearance, behavior, or _expression - constitutes a violation of the City's Human Rights Law.
Gender-based discrimination effects a broad range of individuals. But the impact of gender-based discrimination is especially debilitating for those whose gender self-image and presentation do not fully accord with the legal sex assigned to them at birth. For those individuals, gender-based discrimination often leads to pariah status including the loss of a job, the loss of an apartment, and the refusal of service in public accommodations such as restaurants or stores. The impact of such discrimination can be especially devastating for those who endure other prejudices due to their race, ethnicity, national origin, and citizenship status, in addition to gender-based discrimination. In adopting this legislation, the City Council declares that the ability of all New Yorkers to work and to live free from invidious discrimination based on gender is the guiding principle of public policy and law.

§2. Section 8-102 of chapter one of title eight of the administrative code of the city of New York is amended by adding a new subdivision 23 to read as follows:
23. The term "gender" shall include actual or perceived sex and shall also include a person's gender identity, self image, appearance, behavior, or _expression, whether or not that gender identity, self image, appearance, behavior, or _expression is different from that traditionally associated with the legal sex assigned to that person at birth.

§3. This local law shall take effect immediately.

Love NYC,
Joanne
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Loretta Ann
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Post by Loretta Ann »

Some real ammunition. Have fun Lorna.
Elizabeth
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Post by Elizabeth »

Lorna,

That is great! :)
I wonder if Los Angeles has such a law?

Please dotell how you came about finding this law?

Love always,
Elizabeth
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Post by Beauty »

Go get em Suga! (leave the plastic gun with the director) :)
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That rocks that you found that. =D>

Beauty
Jassmine(SO)
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Post by Jassmine(SO) »

Howdy Lorna ..o)..

That is fantastic news!! Go get 'um, girl!!! :) :)

*Hugs & Love* @->->- *^^*
Blessings Eternal, Jassmine

"Love is unconditional acceptance. That quality is also our essential nature, who we really are."
--Peter Shepherd
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Post by Eloise Goth »

me thinks the owners of the club havent reckoned on our Lorna's feistyness..
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Post by Mellissa »

Lorna KICKS backside <|>|<|> =D>
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Lorna
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UPDATE!!!

Post by Lorna »

Thanks, girls!! :mrgreen:

But I DO have an update on the situation which sort of put a different spin on things... :-k

I recieved this e-mail today from Jacqui Chavret:
Hi Girls

On behalf of the community, and due to my friendship with Greg & Mickey I made a phone call today to try to get to the bottom of this. I spoke with Mickey well over a half hour working on this. It appears that Topher and Jack did have conversation about this with him as well........as he knew all the facts that I had.

Basically, what Lorna has posted, and others, off list, have told me....the events did occur as posted.
It appears that for the past year, this issue has been festering, and they didn't know how to handle it.
Well....what they didn't want to happen..........happened "so tactfully" on Saturday evening.

Management's issue is not with the fact that the trans community is there........but the fact that MANY girls use the place as a staging area...........
IE:....
take up to, and over, a half hour in the bathrooms putting on makeup. (The biggest gripe)
Also the fact that these same people do not order food or drink (or maybe only a soda).
Meeting.......and taking up bar space (sitting in the way of the bar)......without buying anything.
Tipping poorly.

One must remember......this IS a business.

On my side.........I told him that the Trans community was up in arms over this........that groups were:
A) Planning on Boycotting
B) Planning on making it "Tranny Central"
C) Planning on picketing
(Okay...I used a little artistic license!)

I also told him that for an establishment that caters to the LGB community to be so bigoted against any group was unacceptable.....and for an employee to treat ANY customer coolly or say what was said should receive an attitude adjustment.

Further...........I made mention of the NY law that prohibits discrimination against gender identity and _expression at a place of public accomodation........(to which he vehemently denied doing.....as "they love us and want us to be there")
and told him that the comment of "not wanting to be known as a tranny bar" opened Jack and E/8th to a class lawsuit.
(Don't know if that impressed him....as he is a lawyer)

Anyway...............thats how the call went......I personally feel that they really want us there.......and to be comfortable there...but not as comfortable as being in your own living room.

I told Mickey that I would post here an official letter.......(or URL to a letter) with their "official letter head" response, later in the week.

--
Luv
Jacqui Charvet
Webmistress Tgirls Network http://www.tgirls.net
Communications/Web Director-GRAANJ http://www.GRAANJ.org
Gender Rights Advocacy Association of New Jersey
Let's give it up for Jacqui!! =D>

SO now my feeling is that if they were in fact having these issues, they could have done so in a more diplomatic way, instead of allowing a bartender to go on a half-hour-long RANT. They could have pulled one or two girls aside and explained to them their situation. I am sure that the community would have respected this, and things wouldnot have escalated to the point they did.

But in light of this new information I must say that I am relieved. Why let one or two bad bartenders spoil an entire establishment?

I'm glad we chose NOT to shoot first & ask questions later... 8)
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Jassmine(SO)
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Post by Jassmine(SO) »

Howdy Lorna ..o)..

Most of those complaints raised:

take up to, and over, a half hour in the bathrooms putting on makeup. (The biggest gripe)
Also the fact that these same people do not order food or drink (or maybe only a soda).
Meeting.......and taking up bar space (sitting in the way of the bar)......without buying anything.
Tipping poorly.
Can be said about non CDing, TG clientel, too. I used to waitress and have seen alot of this first hand. Especially the poor tipping :( As for time spent in the powder room, the GGs' still have (in my opinon) cornered the market on it, so to speak. I was waiting in the ever sooooo long line to use the ladies room at a popular club and noticed there was no wait to get into the men's room. I went ahead and used the men's room :mrgreen: So did quite a few other women who were fed up with the waiting. The men didn't care and neither did the management.

Now, I do not wish to add any fuel to a fire that is simmering down, but this list of gripes strikes me as a load of whooey!! -,,-

*Hugs & Love* @->->- *^^*
Blessings Eternal, Jassmine

"Love is unconditional acceptance. That quality is also our essential nature, who we really are."
--Peter Shepherd
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Lorna
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Post by Lorna »

Jassmine(SO) wrote:Howdy Lorna ..o)..

Most of those complaints raised:

take up to, and over, a half hour in the bathrooms putting on makeup. (The biggest gripe)
Also the fact that these same people do not order food or drink (or maybe only a soda).
Meeting.......and taking up bar space (sitting in the way of the bar)......without buying anything.
Tipping poorly.
Can be said about non CDing, TG clientel, too. I used to waitress and have seen alot of this first hand. Especially the poor tipping :( As for time spent in the powder room, the GGs' still have (in my opinon) cornered the market on it, so to speak. I was waiting in the ever sooooo long line to use the ladies room at a popular club and noticed there was no wait to get into the men's room. I went ahead and used the men's room :mrgreen: So did quite a few other women who were fed up with the waiting. The men didn't care and neither did the management.

Now, I do not wish to add any fuel to a fire that is simmering down, but this list of gripes strikes me as a load of whooey!! -,,-

*Hugs & Love* @->->- *^^*
Interesting viewpoint... :-k

The more viewpoints I read, the more helpful it is to help me thoroughly see both sides of the issue. I can tell you, this whole incident is a very HOT topic in my local newsgroup right now. Some of the girls are already discussing taking legal action. :shock:

It is true what you say about GGs taking lots of time in the restrooms. And as for not ordering anything but soda or tipping poorly, well that is something that EVERY bar does face from time to time. And no that is NOT the fault of the customer. If they want to up business at the bar, let them impose a 2 drink minimum or something. I for one wouldn't mind that.

But the more I think about all of this, the more I think that it was all the responsibility of that one bartender who made an entire establishment look bad. But if it was up to the establishment itself, they would NOT have pinned the blame on one group of people, as they know the ****storm that would rain down on them.

I just got a call from a friend who briefed me that some of the gals in NJ wanted to rally & take legal action... this whole thing is starting to snowball out of control. :?
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Lorna
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Post by Lorna »

Hey! Just had a thought - I blame the KITCHEN STAFF for the bathroom issue!

Many a night they would be in the restrooms for about 20-25 min or so "doing their business". And the restrooms would always stink to high heaven afterwards! :?

My feeling is this - if you need to go #2, do it at home. Don't occupy a public restroom (intended for customers) for so long and stink it up. :?
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Post by Beauty »

Hi Lorna,

I'm going to still wait and see what happens. His reasons sounded like excuses. So I'm not sure I believe him quite yet.

If he's a lawyer he knew what to say and not to say to her.
:-k
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Post by Carolynn »

Huuuummmmmmmmm!! :-k

Ya know Lorna, could be that the kitchen staff eat too many of their meals there :shock: , thus accounting for the amount of stink? :lol:
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Lorna
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Post by Lorna »

Beauty wrote:Hi Lorna,

I'm going to still wait and see what happens. His reasons sounded like excuses. So I'm not sure I believe him quite yet.

If he's a lawyer he knew what to say and not to say to her.
:-k
Beauty
Yeah. Me too hon... I'll give this a few more days... :-k

Man, my newsgroup e-mail has been CLUTTERED all day with this craziness! #-o
Last edited by Lorna on Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lorna
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Post by Lorna »

Carolynn wrote:Huuuummmmmmmmm!! :-k

Ya know Lorna, could be that the kitchen staff eat too many of their meals there :shock: , thus accounting for the amount of stink? :lol:
LOL!!! It's not even like the food is that "rich & spicy"... (okay let me stop. I don't want to be too gross...) rotf rotf rotf
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