becoming irrelevant??

[Ralitsa]

So much has happened in the last few years it's astonishing. We went from fearing death a decade ago, to the Defense of Marriage Act being passed, and then struck down. And now with gay marriage being specifically protected in many states. Then the Charlotte NC law immediately followed by the opposing NC State law popularly termed the "bathroom bill". And the uproar following that resulting in a bunch of events being pulled from North Carolina and the feds issuing a preemptive judgement that such states are in violation of Title 9.

Gender fluidity, crossdressing, transgenders, and we can just say rebellion against all gender stereotypes seem now to be not only accepted, but rather fashionable in some places. I have a friend in California whom I speak with regularly, and she was one of the first people who really accepted this predilection of mine. And she is one of the most fair minded and least discriminatory people I know. Her daughter goes to UC Berkeley, and gives her a hard time for being so intolerant, judgmental, and unaccepting of gender diversity!!! I find this rather amusing: 20 years ago her views would have been on the cutting edge of liberalism and now her daughter is calling her an old stick in the mud.

Well this site has been a huge help to me over the years. Like all of us here, I really struggled with first accepting myself and coming to understand that I'm not a corrupt, immoral, heathen sinner just because I love to wear a pretty dress now and then (ok, always ) Without everyone's support, and hearing about all your stories, I know I would have continued to fight this and been miserable my whole life. And now here I am, sitting in the airport in a cozy sweater dress, contentedly typing away. I've been in this airport many times over the years, and early on when I first let go of my fears, I was quite the novelty. I never had any trouble here, though some interesting conversations and incidents that I've related previously. Now, nobody cares, nobody stares, nobody talks to me; I'm just another anonymous traveller going from here to somewhere. And I wonder whether places like this site will become irrelevant in the near future.

I sure hope that the kids coming along behind us have it easier than I did. I think back on all the years I tormented myself, and then my ex-wife using this as a weapon when she decided to get a divorce, and how much it's all cost me in grief but also in money. What a wardrobe I could have bought with everything I spent on lawyers!!!!! And I think they will have it a lot easier.

I'd like to hear the views of some of our younger friends, what your experiences have been and expectations for the future. Or maybe we don't have many younger members because they haven't felt the need to come here? I'm curious, because even though I hear a lot of talk about how common gender diversity is, I still have yet to meet anyone else in real life. So I wonder, are there just a few places in California that are making the news, and in the rest of the country people are still afraid to express themselves openly? Or maybe everyone else does a much better job, and I'm the only one too lazy to do a proper job of passing?

How do all of you see the future shaping up?

[Emily]

What an interesting topic, Ralitsa!

Being part of the over 40 crowd myself, I can't really speak to how the youth of today see the future of gender identity - but one thing I can say from a personal standpoint is that it really does seem to be on the way of becoming irrelevant.

I'm just starting to gather the courage and self-confidence to go out and about en femme... but there's still that part of me that is reluctant to do so for fear of being discovered or outed, even though it probably is an irrational thought. There just seems to be so much diversity out there these days that people probably don't really take much notice anymore. Especially now with all the media attention - gender identity, sexual orientation... Not that big of a deal. In Ontario, there are policies in place that prohibit discrimination against these and while I'm sure it still exists to some degree, this is one step forward.

Fashionable in some places? Yes, absolutely! I've noticed on more than one occasion people that I truly believe to be CD's out and about without a care... Of course this is all just speculation as I would never go out and ask, LOL! And I probably wouldn't even have given it a second thought if I wasn't one myself! Thing is - these girls that I've seen and (in my mind) believed to be CD/trans/gender fluid... whatever you want to call it are mostly younger twenty-somethings... Signs of positive change! As a matter of fact, one of them works at a store my SO likes shopping at. If my beliefs are ever confirmed to be true, then I could say with absolute certainty that times are changing. This is definitely something that would have never happened "back in the day"!

All in all, it really seems like the dividing line is fading. The kids already have it easier and that's a good thing. Now, only if I can get a little of that attitude, things could change for me too!

[Diana Michelle]

Not irrelevant Ralista, just starting to attain the acceptance many have desired for years. You talk of being in an airport and no one seems to notice or care. The fact is I am certain that some are noticing and even a few care but as society has started to accept TG as a fact of life there is not an issue for most. I know it has changed dramatically over the years from where and when I started out and about and I am grateful for those out and about nowadays that it is. It is the responsibility of you well as every other girl to make sure that the gains we have made over the years are preserved and grow.

[Debbie Jean]

Ralitsa, you talk about "rebellion" in your 2nd paragraph, and that is the way I see it too. However I think we must be on guard concerning one thing, and that is: Before we can have any sort of rebellion, we must have legitimate authority to rebel against. By legitimate authority I mean a persons parents if they're under age and still living at home, your employer when on company time, your teachers if you're on school property, the cop that pulls you over when you are doing 65 in a 55, etc, etc.

"Social norms" (and this includes gender stereotyping) are not legitimate authority in our lives, and have no right ordering us around or expecting us to bend to their dictates. Ditto for the clothing manufacturers and their marketing propaganda. I think when encountering these and other forms of "illegitimate authority", perhaps the best response would be to speak up against them and then just go about our business.

thanks for reading
Deb

[Eileen (SO)]

There certainly has been a lot of change lately! Teetering on the edge of advanced age, I'm not so sure that all the change is for the better. Certainly, anyone with gender identity issues should not fear for their life. On the other hand, some of the more outrageous folks are making no more a social statement than 'Look at Me'.

I would hope that gender fluidity never becomes so common that men with a three day beard growth can put on a dress and expect to use the Lady's.
Yourself, Ralitsa, said you may be "too lazy to do a proper job of passing." There are enough GG's that look like slobs now. Pride in how you look should never become a bad thing.

There are plenty of ways to express your individuality without looking like a freak. Cotton candy hair shades and 1 1/2 pounds of face piercing is no way to get a job.
With very few exceptions, I can't tell anyone's sexual preference or gender identity. That's as it should be.

Becoming Irrelevant? Never. There will always be a need for those of common interests to have their own clubs and forums.

Eileen

[Noeleena]

Hi,

becoming irrelevant. ??,...

Different countrys different places different people, and a different outlook maybe on life and maybe how other people are seen, I know some people and friends have told me over the last few years that people they knew / know and who have talked with them were having issues with them selfs and quite likely others who they were incontact with,

So for myself was a surprise when I was told I had done something for those people who I never met or most likely never will here in NZ, and what could I do to help them not much I thought,

Well I was told I did , so how did I tell them about myself give them hope show them and stand where they could not , Going on TV = TVNZ. be infront of a nation then talk to many others in the 1000,s and be told from others over sea,s as well,

Not the sort of detail I would wont to do let alone do it, well I gave them the keys so they could open doors yet would that be all... no .... others around them would see being different is not so scary not so out of reach of becoming who they are just they thought they could not be accepted , well it would be interesting how many people I have reached and be told who I have helped,

You know its not about the others = Socity= the scary ones who will judge you belittle you and put you down , fact is most don't maybe people don't understand , well , I did my part and still doing it behind the wall if you like yet there is no wall its an open country and many people are in fact very interested , I have many friends who have gone out of their way to help this kid from a back county small Village that was tucked away from sight and also I was able to put Waimate on the map world wide plus open up so much for others and that to me was the scary part,

I,m really not the kind of person who wonts to be in front under the bright lights on centre stage, i.m quite happy if you like just working away in the workshop with out scary monsters watching me,

Yet I was able to get on and be there , I,m not so sure if I saw the impact it would have for other,s ,

Well it has, so the stage is open quite empty if you like will it be time again for some one who is just a simple backblocks not even known to give of their life and show others we are just normal .

The people we touch in our life is so importaint, im not under the scope like I was im just involved with so many lovely people who I would never have met and become friends with,

...noeleena...



So think about what we can do not what we cant do. you,ll be surprised how people will become part of your life if you open up and make them friends and allow them to be part of your LIFE...

[April Rose]

Ralitsa, if you are interested a millennial take on Trans issues and attitudes, you might check out Jack/Sally Molay's site: "Trans Express" (crossdreamers.tumblr.com). Ironically, what might render sites like this obsolete is not the issues discussed, but the platform. Many , many younger people do most or all of their online activities through mobile devices.

The fact that you haven't met any other Trans people may have to do with age; few of us older crossdressers feel free to go out. Or, it may be where you live. Come to one of the larger cities on either one of the coasts, and you are bound to run into one sooner or later.

One other thing about the younger generation, gender fluidity is their domain. they don't seem so compelled to be either/or.

[Wesley]

Another consideration, (This from someone who has been crossdressing for more than 40 years) Is that some of the gains are not firm gains. Anytime you try to introduce a new paradigm on society without preparation and appreciation of their views. (remember, others still have a right to reject gender politics and will continue to bring up their children in the same mold.) It can lead to a very contentious, near war, that neither side wants. Consider Abortion. It was imposed by judicial fiat in 1973. The issue continues to divide the country.

Not everyone is comfortable with the idea of changing gender ID on a whim. (Consider, all that need happen in some places if for a boy or man to decide today that he is transgender and want to use the women's bathroom.) Many such people do such things just to be a jerk! As those of us that crossdress know well, the LAST thing we would want to do is garner attention in a womans bathroom or dressing room. Not everyone is so inclined or innocuous.

I have certainly seen great strides in societal acceptance in the last 40 years. You cannot force people to change their opinion under guise of federal or state laws. It requires bridge building, understanding, tolerance for those less tolerance, Maturity and most important, time.

Be cautious, but be yourself and be happy.

[Diana Michelle]

The bathroom issue has been well debated here and to be honest it is still an issue for all of us regardless of where we fit into the gender issue. I have long been a supporter of transgendered rights but I too have reservations about the idea of using the restroom based on how someone "thinks" of themselves gender wise. I know I would be more than a bit uncomfortable if upon exiting a stall I found a bearded male washing his hands who felt it was his right to use the Ladies room because he felt "feminine" when nature called. It is a whole other story if it were a crossdresser regardless of how "passable" standing at the sink.

You say you cannot force change through legislation however I disagree. Throughout history legislation has been used to stonewall change and deny individuals and groups their rights. Remember there was a time not that long ago Jim Crow laws dominated the South. Homosexuality and mixed marriages were illegal. Women were not allowed to vote. Need I go on? In many cases change has only occurred through legislation, edict, or judicial ruling. One only has to look back to the Emancipation Proclamation, the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, etc. to see it took governmental actions to change the status quo. You cite Roe v Wade which finally allowed women control their own reproductive rights. It does not mean one has to agree with abortion nor does it dictate that one must have an abortion under specific circumstances but rather offers an option to women.

Bigotry and hatred are founded in ignorance and fear regardless of the topic. As transgendered individuals it is our obligation to present ourselves as we want the world to see and accept us. To work for that acceptance and the right to live our lives as we want, not what "society" deems as "normal" should be a subject to bring us together not divide us.

[Lacey Hadley]

As to bathrooms, if a crossdresser who is attempting to appear, act and be as a woman, it would be better to use the women's bathroom as it is safer. Women's bathrooms have fully enclosed toilet stalls and nobody knows, nor cares who sits in the stall beside you in such case. Yes, once outside the stall and by a sink and faucet and primping in front of a mirror I agree if it's just some dude who is trying to make a point, or being a pervert, or just being an a$$ in a skirt or a dress well he should be called out for such.

IMO most crossdresssers and transgendered persons if being out and about are trying to fit the persona and role of the gender they dress/appear as. Now some crossdressers and transgendered persons are better able to appear passable and others not so. Transgendered persons on hormones will fit the appearance better most of the time. Some crossdressers cannot appear or to totally look passable but IMO if they try to appear, conduct themselves respectfully and such, will not likely have any issues using a women's bathroom. If a woman attempts to call them out, I figure it's best to just be courteous and politely explain their appearance as feminine as they can and conduct themselves as such. You will likely diffuse a situation by proving you are harmless and not some ahole dude in a skirt or dress trying to make a silly point or statement.

If you fear such then often public places have universal/handicap bathrooms to us if need be.

I have heard that more modern architectures are designing/building bathrooms as more uni-sex, aka: No urinals but all stalled off toilets and a common washing and grooming area. Or a common entry/exit followed by one section for men or for say FTM and another section for women and cders /tgers with again a common area for washing hands and primping /grooming.

This said I finally have decided to a comment on the whole gender identity issue.

1: There are only TWO biological genders (yes we have a minor exception of hermaphrodites). You are born either genetically male or female, PERIOD STOP! However the human mind and persona is a very powerful part of who we each are and of our well being. Many of us may identify as the other gender. Crossdressers may only do such for escape, sexual gratification and/or other part time endeavors. Transgendered persons once understanding who they may be (aka: enforcing such on children is not something I advocate as they lack the full ability to understand it all) will often desire to make the transition to living the other gender. It can be with or without surgery but often with hormones for life.

I personally do not agree with 'gender fluidity' being considered as transgendered. Transgender mean CROSSING OVER TO THE OTHER GENDER! Not for one, if you are born a male, meh today I feel a bit girly, or meh today I feel androgynous, or meh today I feel like the male I was born as. Or if you were born female, meh today I feel butch, or meh today feel androgynous, or meh today I feel like a female. IMO you are not transgendered but merely going with how you may feel. FINE! use GENDER FLUID to describe yourself then. You all may ask, Lacey why do you say this? Because these people are becoming socially and politically argumentative and hard-nosed. They by their words and actions are creating animosity and anger by the 99% regular, everyday population. I as a crossdresser who when I dress up fully femme, try my best to appear, conduct myself with decorum, act and be feminine/womanly. I would hope and expect others to call me a female pronoun and treat me as a female. When I am in drab I am much like any other DUDE and I act like a man, expect to be referred to as a man and have typically manly feelings and ideals. In other words I'm not going to be dolled up with makeup and wig on or even just dressed as a dude in a skirt, pantyhose and heels to do an oil change on my car etc.

I fear the IMO spoiled brat, first world issue, activism by these 'gender fluid types' using transgender to describe themselves in their pick and choose world of their gender fluidity to begin to piss off the 99% of everyday, regular folks that may have one or more people act out in anger and maybe hurt me when I am simply dressed en femme and trying to be a female or act and conduct myself as one with respect to others around me.

I am when dressed fully en femme at that moment in my life am not gender fluid! I'm appearing to be a female. I as such want to be called a Miss (meh even a Ms. but I hate modern feminism) she, her, Ma'am, woman and/or lady. When I am my regular male 'dude' life it's Mr. Sir, he, him or man. I'm not and never will be nor want to be called a zee, zer, they, them (jeez those two are plural terms for crying out loud) cis, blah, blah, blah, how about you all take a Zanex.

If you are a true transgender you should not want that either as you are just living your trans life may get caught up in a fit of anger and hate by one or more of the 99% everyday, regular folks.

If you are living life as gender fluid, I say do not ride the coat tails of the transgender community as all too often we see many of you are angry, arrogant, purely argumentative, social and political activists and IMO are just pissing off many of the 99% of everyday, regular folks. It has been and is at times still hard enough for us crossdressers and IMO even more so at times for real transgendered people. We generally, do not want to rock the boat and we do not need the first world, crying activism and IMO a lot of social/political nonsense of the mostly coddled 'gender fluid' types. Please make you own social/political coat to wear and carry it through society for what ever fight you all want.

Sorry to all of you here if I sound angry and perturbed! I was not going to add my POV here but I now felt that I had to. I am in my life a very, friendly, kind, open minded and fair person. My life has been one of many struggles and crossdressing is one and has been both a joy and an angst for me. I do not cry out for others tears for me. But I do not want to be possibly caught up in a scuffle by one or more of the 99% regular, everyday folks who are IMO as we see in society showing signs of getting pissed off with too much P.C. and this gender fluid stuff.

[April Rose]

Sorry , Lacey, but I can't agree. Whatever security and freedom we have as crossdressers has come as a result of the courage of trans activists gay activists and gender fluid people willing to interact with and when necessary confront the mainstream; not in spite of it. Calling that self awareness "whining" is just playing into the hands of the reactionaries.

Transpeople and crossdressers have been beaten and killed for a long time before the bathroom bills existed.

[Diana Michelle]

Lacey, I just reread your post and I do agree with you on one point, you are angry. You seem to want to see things as black or white, left or right, up or down, or whatever terms that denote true diametric opposition. The truth is life is nowhere like that, it is shades of gray. So many talk of the "simpler" times of the past. These same issues, transgendered as well as others, existed back then. They were just swept under the proverbial rug away from public sight. The proliferation of the 24 hour news networks and their need to feed the frenzy and pump up ratings has brought much of it to light.

Gender fluidity as it seems people want to define it means the ability to "flow" from one gender role to the other. The issue IMO is they associate that gender role with clothes. Gender and apparel are mutually exclusive except in the stereotypes of our minds. Gender comes from within, it doesn't know or care what you are wearing! The bathroom issue seems to have become the poster boy for the fight for TG rights. As I stated before I would feel uncomfortable finding a man in the ladies restroom regardless of where he "feels" he is gender wise and stand by that statement. Personally I would think any male would feel uncomfortable in that situation unless he is a pervert or out for a cheap thrill. Conversely any CD en femme who would use the men's room is just asking for trouble. There is a middle ground out there however in the current atmosphere of zero compromise middle ground doesn't exist.

Transpeople and crossdressers have been beaten and killed for a long time before the bathroom bills existed.

Still are and sadly will be long after the bathroom issue is settled regardless of how it comes down.

[April Rose]

Here's another side to that coin.

http://crossdreamers.tumblr.com/image/141721266896" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Diana Michelle]

I love it April!

[KimberlyS]

Yes love it April. Once again proving legislatures that make laws often do not think through about what the side affects are. They rush laws through with a narrow thought process.