Crossdressers-Haven.com

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:16 pm**

I told my wife before we married that I enjoyed wearing womens underwear but it was a dead issue from the start as it was a big problem for her, though she has always listened to me. I learned to surpress the desires very well with only the ocassional mention of the idea which has always been met with discust.

About a year ago after seven years of marriage now with children, we began to discuss crossdressing again and because of her hormone changes due to pregnancy, for the first time ever she reluctanty allowed me to experiement and buy some ladies underwear. I was like a kid in a toy shop, very excited as we went shopping together - very erotic!. But during that time she began to have serious doubts again and this effected our intimacy and the marriage began to get rocky again. Basically she couldn't cope with it at all. Over time I surpressed those feelings again and began to reduce the dress up to zero.

Now, a year later and it's reared it's ugly head again - me crossdressing! Marriage even rockier because of it but both of us hopeful to find a way through this together without divorce - few!!! - though don't know how yet? Both bible believing Christians we are both unsure to the morality of it all. I have always believed it to be wrong because of...

- social indifference and mockery,
- church teaching,
- my own personal embarrassment of others knowing.

but now I don't believe it to be so wrong after all. How do we get through this? For my wife its never been about the lying and deceit as she has always known. For her its the actual idea of me in womens clothing that discusts her although she is trying to come to terms with it all again. No matter what information I give her - the internet, books, my own past history - she never seems able to accept and therefore support me. She has always taken the position that I should deal with it and stop.

I love my wife, we are very good friends, but this does come between us and I find it very hard and frustrating. I have a small bag of lingerie and shoes we bought together last year and love dressing up I also have a need to share this experience with her, I wish she could understand and accept this part of me.

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:19 pm**

Hi again Melissa,

You've come to the right place to ask this question and get GREAT feedback.

I'm sure you're going to get a lot of support about this.

For me, I felt I was in the same boat. I don't know if this will work for you, but I do think you're on the right path.

I was kind of into wearing different pieces of clothing, but inside there was more. Like you I introduced things slowly. I believe this helps with fear. My wife originally said, 'ICK' at the thought of having a CD'ing husband, but now I have the ability to dress whenever I want.

$\:D/$

No, it didn't happen overnight. A weird thing actually happened. After she was more accepting I was the one who was afraid to dress in front of her because I was so self conscious about it. I never thought that was going to happen???

I think you should continue to talk about it and present her with the literature you find that may help her too. She loves you. She'll accept you, just make sure you are patient.

In the forum we have a place where SO's and CD's talk together. Feel free to ask some of the Wives/SOs how they are coping. I don't know how long you've been here, but in the SO/Wives Only area there are some wives who sound like they had the same feelings your wife does?

Here's a link to a christian TG board on Yahoo, since you mentioned being Christian.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tg-christians/

If you have any questions about my marriage and how it's working, please feel free to ask.

Beauty

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:34 pm**

Thanks for your encouragement.

You mentioned that you thought I wasn't on the right path, why? My wifes issues are caught up in the following...

- Her own fears and anxieties
- Her Christian up bringing - in a close lovely family
- Christian teaching
- Our children

to name but a few.

Many SO's hear had other issues but none were based on personal faith and teaching. I'm not even sure if I see this as SIN or not, I just don't know anymore??? I think this is my biggest problem in my marriage.

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:54 pm**

Hi again,

I think you're on the right path because you're taking your time, you're not forcing things, you're not denying yourself.

Actually there are SO's here who have other issues and issues that are based on personal faith and teaching. There are a few who did have that exact challenge and are coping.

Sin is personal. So if it's a sin to you, then I respect your belief. Only you can decide that.

Personally, I'm not convinced it is.

Beauty

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:30 pm**

To everyone,

Pretty please

do your best to make sure this doesn't go into a religious debate and that this thread only aids Melissa and answers questions. If they deal with your own beliefs, please be very brief.

Feel free to start an Off Topic Discussion about this and Shannon and Sharon can decide if it's something that should be debated on their forum.

Thanks!!!

Beauty

Posted: **Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:57 pm**

Here is a good website about CDing & christianity - not gloom & doom at all!

http://members.aol.com/gnlnews/index1.html

{{{}}} Anne

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:55 am**

Thanks for all your feedback, its a hard pill to swallow when you believe one thing to another!

Anyway, on a lighter note my wife and I have been talking alot about crossdressing and have grown closer together a little more. Although she would rather it wasn't a part of my life she has been exercising some support for me - letting me wear clothes around the house at night, nightdress to bed, even shop for me as we both went window shopping for womens clothes.

By the way I'm kind of intrigued about the outer clothes but not sure about dressing up in it, kind of curious though - last night I drove to a quite place on my own and walked in my skirt, suspenders & stockings, hi heels, my normal top and a borrowed handbag. I was very nervous out in public even though no one saw me and it was dark, not sure I really liked that much? For me it's all about wearing the underwear for excitement mostly.

So while my wife and I are taking a day at a time with this I am experiencing some freedom for now, but it could all change at short notice if it becomes too much for my wife like it has in the past - I hope not though, I'm enjoying it too much - especially the nightdresses - arn't they just fab!!

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:18 pm**

Hello Melissa,

With the holiday season I’ve been awfully busy and have just gotten around to trying to catch up on some of the posts I’ve missed and felt like I needed to make a comment or two on yours and your situation.

Your comment about crossdressing once again creating a problem in your relationship and the reasons you mentioned were what caught my eye about your post. Let’s look at these reasons individually and see if we can work through some of them.

The first one you mentioned was social indifference and mockery. Maybe I misinterpreted your meaning here, but there’s not any social indifference regarding crossdressing. In fact there are very few people at all who are indifferent about it. The problem (and this is where the mockery comes from, too) is that society as a whole is totally ignorant as to what a true crossdresser really is. Public perception of us is that of someone who is sexually motivated by dressing and that most of us are gay. The only way this will ever change (my opinion here) is through education of the masses. This IS being done to some extent at the present time, but the efforts are far too few and weak to be observed. In the mean time if we, as crossdressers, would always try to present ourselves as LADYS - in the way we act as well as the way we dress – it could go a long way towards changing the image that most people have of us currently. I realize that most of us are closeted and don’t get outside our own homes so that won’t be something that’s applicable to everyone, but it’s a start anyway.

Next you cited church teachings as one of your concerns. I am, and always have been a Christian. And as such I’ve often questioned the very things you are now questioning as to whether or not it’s wrong to be a crossdresser. I won’t get into a religious discussion here since that and politics are two things that can lead to heated arguments between otherwise close friends with additional common bonds (such as crossdressing) What I WILL tell you is that the ONLY reference in the bible that even remotely mentions crossdressing is Deut. 22:5. ONLY if this is taken out of context with the rest of the chapter would it be anywhere near being applicable and if we did that we’d have to view the rest of Deut. In the same way. Doing that in TODAY’S environment would create a seemingly ‘legal’ basis for so many crimes it would be a disaster. Basically, Deut 22:5 says that a man shouldn’t wear that which pertains to a woman and neither shall a woman wear that which pertains to a man. At the time these laws were written it was against the law for women to enter the temple to pray so many began disguising themselves as men to be able to get into the temple. Thus they were dressing to gain admittance to a place where they were forbidden to be rather than for any enjoyment they were deriving from it.

Now, as to your own personal embarrassment if others were to happen to find out. Actually, if there’s no reason for them to know, they don’t NEED to find out. If you are careful about maintaining a secure environment at home, no one has to know. If you find that you want to go out somewhere enfemme, that too can be done safely provided that you get far enough away from your hometown that the possibility of being recognized in minimized. Even if you DID happen to see someone you know, feminine styles and especially makeup and wigs will change your look so drastically that the chances are extremely slim that you would ever be recognized.

There is NO NEED to be embarrassed about being a crossdresser. You, as well as the rest of us were BORN that way and thus we had no choice in the matter. Furthermore, I have a theory about why we were born the way we were. In a nutshell, God doesn’t make any mistakes. So it’s only logical that if He made us as crossdressers He did so for some specific reason. It’s OUR responsibility to determine what this reason was and what we’re supposed to DO with this odd ‘gift’ we’ve been given. The reasons seem to be different and unique from one individual to another so what’s applicable for one individual may not “fit” those of another.

Finally, concerning your wife’s opinion on the whole issue of your crossdressing. You said that she had always taken the position that you should deal with it and just stop. I’m sure that you love and respect your wife very much and would like to comply with her request, but she needs to understand that you will not be able to do so. The REASONS why you won’t be able to stop is because it’s a NEED that you are born with. You had no more choice in being or not being a crossdresser than SHE did in deciding what color her hair would be, whether she would be short or tall, or whether she’d have all her fingers and toes. Now, you might be able to stop the actual physical act of dressing, but suppressing it and trying to pretend the need’s not there anymore will backfire big time sooner or later. Not even to mention the possible bouts of depression and irritability that will no doubt be very frequent.

Something else she would benefit from understanding is this: Your overall personality over your lifetime is influenced by your feminine side (EVERY male has a feminine side just as EVERY female has a masculine side). Therefore, some of the very characteristics that attracted your wife to you were a direct result of that femme side. Chances are that if it WAS possible to totally eliminate all of your desire to dress it would also erases your feminine components too. The personality of the man that was left wouldn’t be at all what she would prefer.

OK, this has been a long reply to your post, but hopefully some of it made some sense. The only other help I can offer you would be the information found on my web site. It’s a totally CLEAN site and it’s set up specifically to provide support for crossdressers AND their wives/girlfriends. There’s nothing there that’s offensive in text or picture format so you and your wife can view it TOGETHER without any fear of embarrassment. In fact, if she would agree to look at it WITH you it might be more beneficial since the two of you could ask/answer each other’s questions as you read the material there.

Hope this helps. Feel free to email me at any time too.

Dixie Darling -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:59 pm**

A very thoughtful and sensitive response, Dixie. Bravo!

I hope Melissa will find it, as well as your site, helpful.

Melissa, being neither Christian nor in a relationship, I feel I can't offer you much more except my best wishes and continued support as you journey on the road to self-discovery.

Love,
CJ

Posted: **Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:44 pm**

I sure hope this is who I think it is.

$\:D/$

Beauty

Posted: **Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:36 pm**

Hi All

Thanks for all you comments.

My wife and I are taking a day at a time. Problem is that I want to dressup from time to time but my wife doesn't want me too. However, this time, during the last couple of days, she has been very supportive and I really appreciate her sacrifice for me. We have gone shopping and have talked alot about this issue. Nothing new just talking and talking about the same stuff but now have a couple more items of clothing.

One concern I have (apart from my wife's total rejection of this) is that I do not want to crossdress full time and I don't want this desire to get out of control. I am currently having a break from dressing in lingerie for the next couple of days. This seems hard at first but I think it's good to take a break and remember who I really am - a guy not a girl.

Posted: **Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:21 pm**

Melissa,

Your posts here and the posts of others are very touching (for lack of a better word).... I think I can give you some detailed thoughts from my experience in time.... I have something else I need to do right now.... But I would like to offer a few quick thoughts....

First, it is possible in some situations to have your wife get comfortable with this aspect of you, she can realize it is part of what makes you who you are.... For example Sharon(SO) and myself... when this first entered our life together she was not happy..... It was obvious I had lied to her for a long time and that hurt her, but over time I think she realized it was part of what made me into the person she loves and was not hurting anybody....

But I think what really got her more accepting of it was allowing her to be involved in this part of myself, I think she felt left out until I did that.... In fact having both of us start and "run" this forum has been great for our relationship....

Secondly, I mean nothing negative by this, but I think your wife is sending you mixed messages..... It sounds like she is accepting and goes shopping with you, then will not allow you to wear any of the items you bought.... For me that would be totally confusing and drive me crazy....

I will give more of my thoughts and experiences in time if you wish to hear them...

I wish you and your wife the best of luck..

Posted: **Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:24 am**

From my experience with not one, but two wives.
First your relationship with your wife is paramount in my view.
(Just forget about all that biblical hooey)
Having said that I am sure the two of you can find some middle ground.

Both my first wife and second wife were very conscious of the appearance they made to the world, that included the man they were married to. They both were paranoid about being embarrassed in public or in front of their family.

Both wives were much much more supportive at home, behind closed doors if you will.

Both were willing to participate with me in therapy sessions where we discussed CD. While it was not their cup of tea, my wife also went with me to a tri-ess meeting. She found it boring. We socialized for a time with many other CD's.
After a time I realized that the two big issues for both of these ladies was
social standing and personal interest.

As long as I didn't embarass them in public or force them to be a part of what to them was uninteresting I could pretty much do as I pleased.
In return I don't want them to embarrass me in public or force me to participate in activities that bore me either.

By the way CD was not part of the reason my first wife and I parted.
I am still very happily married to #2, and dress frequently at home and out.

Best wishes,

Julie

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:47 am**

Thanks for all you posts, this post is a little negative, I just needed to get it out of my system for now.

Theres not a day going by now where this crossdressing isn't having a negative effect on my wife and our marriage. My wife and I are talking throughout but she is so set in her ways I can't believe she will ever change. Today she told me she wants to contact this Chrisitian website for support who take the view that its all wrong. I told her that it will not strengthen our marriage but weaken it but she see's me as being controlling saying "you go on this forum so why can't I get in contact with whoever I want to". She does have a point there but she is so up and down with this that it's doing my head in. We saw one counceller twice last year and apart from the cost which we could not really afford, his help didn't last, his conviction was that he didn't understand the desire and that no one should have to do something or put up with something if they really didn't like it. My wife feels she needs to talk with someone, proabably with someone who is on her side I guess.

One minute she is buying clothes with me, next she is telling me to stop wearing the clothes, other times although nothing is said then and there you just know that she will not be keen for my to dress in anything. The more I dress you'd think she'd get used to it, but the more she has a problem with it being in her face a lot. BUT equally, the less I dress, when I want to dress the harder it is becuase she has got used to me not dressing and again its in her face - I can't win can I? Tell me I not the only one going through this, please!

I know its been mentioned to evaluate my relationship and when I get so frustrated with her I feel like moving out and pursuing a divorce - but thats how it makes me feel, not that I have any desire to leave her or my kids.

It doesn't feel like this up and down experience will change because my wife won't change. She sometimes takes the view that I should change - O like that will happen anytime soon, this has been with me for 30 years!!! I feel I have been so honest with my wife I have nothing else to give. What good could possible come from my wife seeking an organisation with an opposed viewpoint no matter how nice they are? What support is there for her, she doesn't feel like she can relate to anyone here because most have accepted and she feels she will never be able too! What a hopeless situation to be in?

Posted: **Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:26 am**

Dear Melissa,

Hang in there, sis! It seems like neither of you have gotten the support you really need, either from the therapist, or from a Christian voice, or from each other.

She obviously has some mixed feelings about your crossdressing. Sometimes she wants to support it because she loves you. Other times, she worries that it is destroying your marriage and wants you to stop.

You're not alone, hon. Her feelings are natural. I remember a few years ago, when my wife and I belonged to a certain support group (since disbanded) there was one wife in the group who was so supportive, she was like Mrs. Crossdresser. Went to big conventions and everything.

Then she changed her mind and began speaking out that crossdressing was against the Bible!

Crossdressing is not really against the Bible, though as I wrote to you before, you can find verses to support that position (or almost any other point of view you choose to take).

Have you two tried setting limits? Make a mutually acceptable decision when and where you can dress, how much you can spend on it, and so on. Then you both follow it. If either of you wants to adjust those limits, you have to talk it over.

Crossdressers-Haven.com

Coping With Change, Marriage Rocky

Coping With Change, Marriage Rocky

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