How to deal

[Kay(SO)]

For those of you who know me by now, you know how loving, supportive and accepting I am. However, an issue has come up and I would like some feedback. Most of the time my husband dresses, we usually take trips together due to the fact that we have young kids and not want them to know about the CDing. Also, my husband prefers my company rather than going off alone. Here's the issue. When we return, he turns into someone I do not know and seldom like. He is grumpy, testy, moody, depressed and either pouts or grouses around the house or hides from me completely. I'm not sure how to continue handling this because it's starting to get on my last nerve. I do understand that there's a huge letdown following the bliss but for pete's sake, there's got to be a better way for him to deal with it than making the rest of us miserable and shutting me out or barking at me. Afterall, I just spent a glorious intimate time supporting and loving him. It just irritates me and doesn't seem quite fair. Any thoughts? Thanks,
Kay(SO)

[Sara]

Kay:

I can understand his letdown, but I'm with you on this one. If anything, he owes you some extra support and loving. I don't have the good fortune of a supportive SO and I'm perplexed why someone who does would act the way you say. I mean, even a bad day at work that leaves you grumpy should be put behind at the door--never mind turning lemonade into lemons. Is he feeling some sort of guilt?
You are right--it isn't quite fair, or fair at all. Will he talk about it?

Love,
Sara

[Shannon]

Well Kay, here is my two cents...

I agree with Sara, I don't understand it. When Sharon(SO) is acceptive of my dressing I get really happy and as kind as I possibly can toward her, during and most importantly after.... It really makes me happy and makes me realize even more how truly lucky I am to have her in my life.

So I can't really relate to your husband's anger after you are there for and supportive of him and his desires... I think Sara has a good point, it might be guilt. I tend to feel somewhat "off" or imbrassed after dressing.... but I don't know... from what you said it doesn't seem like your husband should have guilt or etc...

Now to be honest, I do get in a mood very similar to what you describe of your husband.... but my is caused by just the opposite.... Sometimes I purposely go out of my way to do nice things for my wife, make her life a little more enjoyable, anything I can do with a "gift of time or effort" .... Then when she is not really interested (almost seems like "oh crap, not again...") in participating in my dressing I get moody and somewhat mean....

Now let me clarify, I realize that not all the time is it going to be Sharon(SO)'s desire to do what I would like and I am totally okay with that... but you would think once in a while we would click and both be in the same mind set at the same time.... That does happen sometimes, but not as often as I would like or feel is reasonable....

Sometimes she will sit in front of the computer for hours and basically ignore me..... so I get irritated by that.

But I am now offically rambling.... I hope I helped some...

[Alexandra]

here's a couple of questions . . . is the frequency of "dress-up" time often enough? Is the length of "dress up" time long enough? Does he get to do/go what/where he wants? Coming up short on any of these (not what he says, but what he desires), or a combination, will do the trick.

[Kay(SO)]

First of all, I want to thank ya'll for your replies. I want to respond to each of you.
Sara, the strange part is that he is loving up to the minute he walks in the door of our home. It's like once reality sets in, he puts on his seven dwarf outfit (Grumpy) and acts like he's miserable. I'll have to think about the guilt aspect. Could be something there. I think in part, that he's been a miserable, grumpy person for so long throughout his life with regards to crossdressing that it's now become habit. I'm the first person to support him. Perhaps he's not used to it??

Shannon, I love that you are able to be honest about your own moodiness and issues here. The odds that two people are going to feel the exact same way at the exact same time are so slim. Usually, one person has to compromise a little to offer the other person moments of joy, knowing that they will get it in return, if the relationship is good. Does that make sense? I have found that compromise is what it's all about as long as it's not at the expense of one's value or belief system. I always ask myself, "Is this going to cost me anything (emotionally, mentally or physically)?" Most of the time the answer is no and the rewards are usually pretty good, even if I don't get them until down the road. I have the same issue with my husband hiding out but it's due to some kid issues we're having right now. I did confront him about this one but don't know if it will change or not. We'll see...
Alexandra, I've mentioned here before that the frequency is not nearly enough. We have young kids whom we decided not to tell and the solution has been to only dress away from home. He can go on a "business trip" any time he wants to but in 6 years has not gone once. He doesn't want to go without me. He's says it's too lonely. I've encouraged him to go. I WANT him to go. I know it will aid in his mental well being. I was even thinking about giving him a gift certificate for a room for Christmas so he will HAVE to go. The reason I can't go with him is that we are fairly new the our area and have absolutely zero resources for over night or even hourly childcare. It's something I've been working on over the past year. I resent the fact that he's done nothing toward helping with this issue. He is leaving it up to me. I don't know what to do. I've been reaching out to neighbors like crazy but to no avail and we have no family near us. I feel stuck. I've gone on enough for now. But, I assure you I'm not done yet!!
Kay(SO)

[CJ]

Hi girls,

I wanted to comment on Kay's current difficulties but that thread is in the SO's section under "Coping for SOs/Fear of Change" (http://crossdressers-forum.com/forums/v ... .php?t=333). I thought it might be best to take it up here.

Kay, I understand (and more than sympathize) with your anxiety regarding what changes may come as a consequence of your husband's need to express himself more fully. And it is a need, not a whim. I still remember those days when I tried to stifle such needs in myself; it was nearly the death of me. My inability (or my feeling that I was unable) to express such a fundamental aspect of who I am led me down all kinds of dark paths; I was a very angry, bitter, moody, depressed, cynical, and selfish young creature, even though I tried to put up a fairly normal, even somewhat jovial, front. The dissonance between what I appeared to be to others and what I truly felt inside was just too great for me to long bear in silence without going completely bonkers. I had to make changes. Minor at first, but then, as I grew more confident that the world would not, in fact, reject me out of hand because of who I was and am, slightly more important. And you know what, Kay? Even those minor changes saved my life. Most consisted in giving a bit more room to my feminine inclinations in the world "out there." Again, nothing major--underdressing a bit more often, wearing slightly (slightly!) more unisex clothing in public, dressing more fully in the privacy of my own home, opening myself up a bit more to those that knew me and loved me (family, friends, colleagues--with discernment, of course: I didn't go out on the rooftops screaming "I like to wear women's clothes" at the top of my lungs!). In my case, what happened is this: those tiny, visible changes led to major, invisible ones; as I gradually came to see that these small changes didn't cause the sky to fall nor the seas turn to blood, my moods dramatically improved--and that was a major change I'd long sought. The guilt and shame I'd felt all my life began to lift. I felt as though the heavy gargoyles that had always sat on my shoulders were becoming increasingly insubstantial, until that day I recognized that they'd always been but phantoms of my own making. It was very liberating. Look again at Sharon's Avatar: that's how I began to feel--the coccoon was splitting, the light was reaching me, and, for the first time in my life, I felt there was an actual possibility that I might, after all, be able to spread my wings. All this is change. All this is transformation. And, most importantly, all of it is absolutely necessary; damming up the river of your soul inevitably leads to poor mental health. So, yes, Kay, change can cause anxiety--but it shouldn't be feared. Fear causes much more anxiety than change. Change is very much how things grow in this world; fear, on the other hand, has a withering effect. Alan Watts once wrote a little book called The Wisdom of Insecurity, basically a tiny manual on how to embrace the ever-changing nature of the world, its native condition. If we don't, we ossify, we calcify, we fossilize, we become brittle and fragile. We more easily run the risk of breaking.

Are you familiar, Kay, with Maslow's "Pyramid (or Hierarchy) of Needs"? Our most basic needs need to be fulfilled before we can address issues at any of the higher levels. These are the levels, from the lower, broader ones at the base of the pyramid to the higher, narrower ones a the top: Survival (bodily needs--food, shelter, etc.) :arrow: Safety (the need to feel safe and free from harm) :arrow: Belonging (social needs--community, love, friendship, freedom from alienation, etc.) :arrow: Esteem (ego needs--self-respect, respect from others, etc.) :arrow: Knowledge (in the sense of having the opportunity to use who you fully are in the way you choose to participate in the world) :arrow: Self-Actualization (the need to be in the world more fully, to give of yourself, to be wilfully engaged in activities outside your own skin--the highest form of connection to the world, one where you can appreciate the beauty and the "rightness" of the people and things around you). This last level is often difficult or almost impossible to reach. Some do, though. Do you think, Kay, that it might be useful for you to try to see where both you and your husband think he might be in this pyramid? (Of course, you might want to look at where you are, also!) Like anything else in psychology, Maslow's Pyramid is just a tool, but it can certainly be a useful one to get the ball rolling. Say, in a therapy session, for example.

Anyway, I'm going on and on here, but the truth is, I'm no psychologist. I'm just someone who cares what happens to you and your husband and, if what I've learned from my own journey in the world can be, even remotely, of any kind of help to someone, to you, Kay, I have no choice but to yap away! Please forgive me for that.

Again, my thoughts will be with you both on Thursday. Good luck. Please, if you want and can, let us know how things are going.

Love,
CJ

[Kay(SO)]

CJ,
I loved your post and I'm glad that you moved mine to this place in the forum. It will probably provide more input and you know that's what I thrive on. More please should be on my license plate since it seems to be a motto in my life. I doubt that anyone here can relate to that! Heh, heh! I know that what my husband is feeling is not a whim that's for sure. He has never felt that he can be himself and he's at a point now where living any other way is unacceptable. I hope that he can learn how to live being whole and happy. At the same time, it's a little hard for me, as I wait to see what this involves. I'm trying to hang onto the idea that this is all a good and positive change for all of us (our family).

Not to make light of the whole issue but I'm in a goofy mood anyway so I'll give you an analogy that often happens to we SO's involved with TG individuals. Let's say you drive thru Wendy's and order a single cheese combo with everything, extra onions. They ask if you want to biggie size it and you say no. You pick up your order, get home and open the package and it turns out they biggie sized your fries and the burger is a bacon cheeseburger with no onions at all on a fancy bun that you didn't expect. Also, no mustard. (This all just happened to me by the way! Smile...) Anyway, you're sitting here asking yourself, do I go ahead and fix it up with things in my own fridge, pull of the bacon and eat it anyway, tossing out most of the biggie fries or do you return to Wendy's, bitch them out and demand what you originally ordered or throw the whole thing in the trash?? So, the contemplating begins. Well, you're home and have no real passion to drive back to Wendy's, you're starving and can probably make it edible and don't really want to throw the investment of your last $4.00 in the trash. After you fix up the burger and get rid of the disgusting bacon, you slowly eat your lunch. But you can't help but think to yourself, "This isn't what I ordered? How did this happen? I feel like crap because the situation was completely out of my control. And though control is merely an illusion, most of us like to feel we have some sense of it. No one wants to have an expectation only to find out that's not what they're really getting.
Now to the point. I ate the burger, I did the work to make it palatable. I ate part of the fries. Where I'm at now is wondering if this is going to happen again? If so, will I handle it the same way. Is it really okay with me, accepting the burger I didn't really order or want? Well, I will do what I always do and play the wait and see game. Why you ask (or not)? Because I love my burgers and no matter what, I will find a way to be happy with what I get at the drive-thru. It's not that big a deal in the scheme of things. I will sort through my feelings like I always do, ask questions along the way, get as much support as I can and carry on. If and when I get to a place that it's not okay with me that I get the wrong order at the drive-thru, I'll do what I have to do to deal with it. Some women can't get past this part and I think it's important for CD'rs to try to understand this. It's not what they expected or ordered and they are stuck trying to figure out how to fix it up, some go screaming back to the drive-thru, some opt to throw it in the trash. This is where compassion comes into play. And patience. Right now my own level of patience is worn thin but in part because there are soooooo many other things going on here. I will work on it. Hey, I ate the burger didn't I??
Your words are exactly what my husand said to me about how he feels inside as opposed to what he's presenting on the outside. I realize it must be a miserable way of life. I do want nothing but good things for him. Right now, I'm also saying, hey what about me?? How will your new found confidence, esteem, acceptance and presentation affect me? I think at this point in our relationship and how supportive I've been I've earned the right to take a minute and consider my own feelings. I should say for a change. Once I work through them I'll concentrate on him. Thanks again for your lovely post. I hope no one is offended by my reference to "burgers". Think of it this way, you could be called something alot worse! Smile...

Kay(SO)

[Kay(SO)]

I forot something in all of my rambling about burgers. Of course I know about Maslow's Heirarchy. I'm a therapist remember? Thanks for the reminder of how it works. You gave me some more things to think about. I just love you! You always make me think, smile and I look forward to your infinate wisdom and honesty. Thanks so much for the kind words you always offer to me, even when I'm struggling to see the light. Hang on while I get though a rough patch and I'll return to my chipper, loving, supportive self. I just need some time...

Kay(SO)

[CJ]

Hi Kay,

Your post was so hearfelt and cute at the same time I just had to respond! Indeed, I had forgotten that you're a therapist! But I think it's not so much as counsellors that we exchange, and offer and seek support on this board, as it is as simple human beings.

Your burger analogy definitely works for me, Kay (especially at 2:30 in the afternoon with a pass on lunch!). Certainly, I understand what you're saying, because I've felt it too--for the longest time, I thought that the person I was most certainly wasn't what I would've wished for myself (or on an SO, for that matter).

And I understand now that this might be where my own situation differs from your husband's. Except with my very first girlfriend, I've always been upfront about my crossdressing; in a sense, my SOs knew what they were ordering at the drive-thru window and, by and large, that's what they got when they paid their money. (Of course, that still didn't make partnering with a CD all that easier.)

So, yes, do take the time and the energy required to gather your wits and your strength about you--you will indeed need them for what might be coming your way. If your husband is even half the person you seem to be, I'm sure he'll understand that what you're going through matters as much as what he's going through. I admire you, Kay. Godspeed.

Love,
CJ

[Kay(SO)]

CJ,
I'm still here. And it's true that I come here not as a therapist but as a person seeking support for a sometimes confusing issue. And my husband is always honest and upfront with me about what's happening with him. I think this time he is struggeling to understand things himself, let alone try to explain it to me. I'm glad he has a therapist he feels good about and trusts to guide him in explaining things to him and to me. Part of the burger analogy relates to my feelings of anxiety regarding any impending changes. Again, I know where there is fear there is no room for faith and I'm really trying to replace one with the other. It's just not always easy to make the transition. I've known a particular man for the past six years and there's a part of me that doesn't want him to change whether it's for the good or not. I will do my best to embrace where he's at and to enjoy whatever comes our way. Right now, I'm just being a worry wart and getting my underwear in a bunch over the what ifs... Just talking about it seems to help. Thanks for your replies and again the supportive words.

Kay(SO)

[RikkiOfLA]

Dear Kay,

I feel for both you and your husband right now. For you especially, because you're writing, you're telling us how you're feeling, and you are becoming impatient and concerned and resentful. For him, because I intuit that he is feeling lonely, confused, and perhaps even a bit frightened about this whole situation.

Even for those of us who have the best of all possible worlds--accepting spouse, no major worries in life, and so on--there are plenty of times when we wish we weren't crossdressers. Oh, it's a passing feeling not a decision. I'm not purging or anything. But sometimes, we wish we could give it up forever, or at least until it's convenient.

An understanding spouse, ironically, is one of the things that can trigger that. My wife is soooo understanding, sooooo giving, in ways that I can never, ever reciprocate for. I really wish that I could do more for her, and that includes being able to give up the crossdressing, or at least give it up more of the time. But as we all know, that's not possible. And that's frustrating. We really don't know what crossdressing is. Is it a compulsion? Not exactly (no 12-step recovery). Is it a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder. Nope, it's too much fun and much too voluntary. Along comes one of those dark little voices in the back of my mind, and it whispers, "Cut the malarkey! You know exactly what crossdressing is--it's a SICKNESS!!!!" Yes, guilt lingers, even when our conscious mind "knows better."

Like your husband, going on a "business trip" to have some crossdressing fun all by myself is the LAST thing I'd want to do. I've been on a vacation by myself, when I was single. What a chore! Beautiful country all right, but I was lonely and depressed all the time. All I wanted was to be with friends, and I was in an area where I didn't have any.

Please understand that crossdressing is kind of like drinking or taking medicine. It's a way to make a fun time more enjoyable, or to make a work time more comfortable. It isn't something to do by itself. The fun is what we do once we're dressed. Dining, or dancing, or shopping, or whatever. Just the kind of things that are so much more fun with someone whose company you really enjoy.

Oh, there are those who get dressed and hang around a "TG friendly" nightclub. But they're either just hanging out with their friends or more commonly, looking for sex. Give your husband a big hug for avoiding that scene! Hanging out with CD friends might be fun, but you haven't mentioned that he has any, that he could go visit. Does he? I'm surmising probably not. It may be time for him to put a bit of effort into making some friends?

Please don't send him to a motel on Christmas! That's family day par excellence.

Now as for finding a baby sitter--I would think one step would be to tell this board (and your other friends) where you live, and that you're looking. The classic mature teenager or spry older lady may be hard to find. But maybe you can trade babysitting days with another couple you know? Or maybe someone from this board would help. I would, if I knew what city you live in.

Hope this helps.

[Sara]

Kay:

I feel so for both you and your husband. I'm not sure I can add much to what Rikki and Christina have said--both have been so thougtful and understanding.
I would say that you have every right, and even a duty to yourself, to look to your own feelings and concerns. I would guess that many of us on this Forum envy your husband for the support and love you have shown him, and I'd also guess that he is deeply grateful, too. You didn't ask for this, and, believe me, neither did he. I know from your many posts that you have a pretty good understanding of the torment he is undergoing, trying to balance this unrelenting need with the oh so unaccepting expectations of the world around him. He is indeed fortunate to have you, but that does not diminish the pain. None of us chose this path. Life would have been a heck of a lot simpler without it. But without it, we would not be the people that we are, worthy of the love of wonderful women like you.
But that has little to do with your own difficulties. You own training tells you that you cannot supress your own needs entirely. In the long run, that doesn't help either one of you.
Kay, take it from someone who has kept a tight lid on things for a long, long time--take care of yourself. You used the burger analogy. I'll use a different one--when you fly, the flight attendant instructs you that in the event of a loss of cabin pressure, get your own mask on first then help those around you. That is, if you cannot breathe, you cannot help those around you. Breathe, Kay, breathe, and then help your husband to breathe.
I would suspect that visiting a therapist together will be very trying. All of our hopes and wishes are with both of you.
I'm probably not making much sense, but I wanted to reach out if for no other reason than to say that while we are remote, you've given us cause to care about you and your family.

Love,
Sara

[Kay(SO)]

Now you see, THIS is why I come here to express my feelings. It's the wonderful feedback I get! First off, I'd like to thank you all for the support and much needed input. It helps to put things into perspective and it's a relief to feel understood.

Rikki, your words were compassionate and heartfelt. I know that my husband is feeling frustrated, lonely and scared too right now. He is looking forward to our session tomorrow as he knows that it will help illeviate some of these feelings in both of us. I have seen the torment he has gone through with the feelings of wishing he wasn't a crossdresser. He has talked to me about how much simpler life would be if it would just go away. He's told me of the heartache and hell in past relationships and the devastation of his 1st wife telling their 9-year old son that his daddy was a "fag" and dragging his personal life into the courts, trying to take his son away from him. (By the way, the judge found her to be mentally deranged and hubby got custody of his son to raise, even with the crossdressing issue being out in the open!) At this point he does accept that it's part of who he is and it's not leaving. I accept that too. He's just trying to figure out now how to incorporate those parts of himself in day to day life instead of pretending to be someone he's not. He wants to much just to be himself and be accepted by others. I have more compassion and empathy for him than I've ever had for another person. And I love him so much it hurts at times deep inside. I truly do want him to feel whole and happy. And I want him to bring that into our life together.

With our childcare situation, the ONLY opportunity for him to dress unfortunately at this time IS to go off by himself. It's that or nothing and the nothing is not acceptable to either of us. It was not MY idea for him to go the day after Christmas, it was his. I said okay as a way of supporting him. Of course we would both prefer it if I could go with him but that's just not our reality right now and we've had to face that. I want him to do whatever he needs to do. It won't be nearly as fun without me but he's knows I'm not going anywhere and he can relax and actually enjoy the peace and solitude. With all of the other chaos due to having 9-year old twin girls, he'll probably like being alone rather feel lonely. He doesn't have any friends, CD or otherwise. By choice and out of fear. Another issue we've been working on. I have tried on several occasions to talk him into going to support meetings, have found others for him to communicate with and right now he is just not feeling it and has not interest. Part of his isolation is due to his own issues of lack of trust, low self-esteem and lack of confidence. And I do thank God daily that he doesn't go "trolling" or hang out in clubs. He's just not ready to reach out yet so I'm waiting patiently. And I'm ready to help him if he wants it or wants my support.

The baby sitting issue has not improved in a year but I haven't given up. We are going to try out a couple for a few hours while we go to a hockey game. If that goes well, we'll see about an over-nighter. One of the twins is ADHD, OCD and is on medication for that as well as anxiety and depression. This is all new so it plays into the whole scheme of things. Anyway, I'm feeling somewhat better and know that we'll get through all of this. We have to much love and devotion not to. Again, thank you for your words.

Kay(SO)

[Kay(SO)]

Sara,
I didn't want to leave you out! I LOVE analogies and yours hit me right at home. The idea of putting on my own mask first and then helping him with his is sooooo good. It made me think and I will take care of myself so that I can be available to work with him on his difficulties. In fact, I have my own therapy session today, we had family therapy last night and then Thursday we go see his. I'm getting tons of support on my SO list group, from my sister (She's the only family that knows) and from you wonderful people. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. It deflates my feelings of anxiety to talk about things and to get input. It makes things not seem so huge. It's funny but when I share my feelings, I sometimes feel selfish and then remember that it's okay. People do care, I am valuable, entitled to them and that's what these groups are for!

Kay(SO)

[Dixie Darling]

Kay(SO),

I haven't responded to your post in this area of the board and after reading severa; of the other folks replies I figured I'd go ahead and throw my two cents worth in for whatever it's worth to you.

I can identify with your husband's grumpy attitude - UP TO A POINT. There's a sort of a mental 'let down' that happens after a CD reaches the point where he has to take everything off, clean up, and return to drab mode. I've experienced it and I'd bet you that every CD you make contact with will tell you the same thing. I can't say with any certainty where this comes from, but I think it has to do with realizing that the fun time is over with. Understand that for some, and I most definitely include myself here, the opportunity to dress and the actual act of doing so is an intensely euphoric experience at times. Not every time, but the longer the periods between opportunities, the stronger it is. And like anything else that one enjoys doing, sooner or later it has to come to an end and we have to get off of that pink cloud we've been floating around on and get back to reality for a while. Facing the fact that our euphoria has reached a stopping point is somewhat of a trauma and this MAY be where your husband's grumpy attitude is coming from.

What I'm going to say here is for your benefit, but it's directed at him. He needs to stop and take stock of what he has in you. An accepting wife that encourages, helps, and even embraces his need to crossdress is an assett that he needs to take a close look at. If he was in my pumps. . . uh.... guess we ought to make that shoes, he'd darn well APPRECIATE what he has and go to any length to protect it. Ask him how he'd feel if he had to keep it all hidden, have to be cautious about who he's chatting with on the internet (if indeed he found a way to chat any at all). How would he like it if he had no one to discuss his feelings with or to advise him in the fine art of femininity? And I don't think he'd be so quick to be grumpy if everytime anything came up about crossdressing it escalated into an argument with nobody winning and both parties ending up frustrated about the wole thing.

The big difference here is that HE can look forward to another good time later on. He can PLAN on it and he won't have to jump through hoops and make up stories just to be able to steal away for a few hours of femme time. And he can enjoy civil conversations with the one he loves (and who loves him back) about most any aspect of dressing. I'd also bet that he doesn't have to keep all his things locked in some kind of case and hidden away so you won't find them either.

These fact only scratch the surface and it might be to your benefit to relate what I've said here to him. Maybe it would make him a little more thankful for the blessings he's been receiving.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now and climb back into my closet.

Dixie -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd