rule breaker

Ralitsa · Post by **Ralitsa** » Mon May 16, 2011 5:33 pm

Maybe it's a little strong to say that I am a rule breaker, but certainly I have always "questioned authority" and have never accepted the answer "because everyone else does it." So CDing for me isn't so out of character with my attitude toward life in general. I have been accused, probably justifiably, with over-analyzing everything but I like to view it as not doing anything without thinking about why I do it.
So I wonder how many of you would say that CDing is one more manifestation of a personality that refuses to be catagorized, or whether you think it's not characteristic of your other personality traits, or whether all your personality traits are inconsistent with the gender you were born into.
I absolutely do not feel as though I have any issues with my gender identity. I do feel as though what I like and what everyone else thinks I'm supposed to like are not consistent. This, of course, is not a problem with me but a problem with other's expectations. I've noticed in a lot of the posts that others seem to have a bit of a rebel streak also, maybe it is pretty typical of us.

Paula G · Post by **Paula G** » Mon May 16, 2011 6:23 pm

I too have always questioned authority, but I have always felt that this was due to my liberal (sorry if the word offends any of our colonial cousins) upbringing. I have always wanted to challenge authority especially when it was a simple case of "we do it this way because that is the way t is done" At school I had a reputation as a bit of a "political" trouble maker, but not as a radical - I just refused to slot into the pigeon holes.
I have no problems with my gender identity, it's just not consistent. I have and do indulge in many very "male" activities, when I was still able I used to play Rugby - in the front row, I was a "grunt" not one of the "girls", I ride a motorbike and drive a white van, I make my living working outside in other peoples gardens, I play the Tuba and drink beer. Yes, but I also like to cook, I design gardens and arrange music and conduct a band. I am the confidante of my female friends and enjoy their company, sometimes I like to wear a dress, but I have no problems with my gender identity.
I do not fit in with most peoples stereotypical ideas of what or who I should be, because I am "not a number". I suspect that everyone is a mass of contradictions, I know I can be flamboyant loud and aggressive, but I can also be sensitive, quiet and vulnerable. I think what makes us different is accepting that we can be so contradictory.

Davita · Post by **Davita** » Mon May 16, 2011 8:23 pm

Are we discovering a trend here? Ask any of my friends. I certainly have a certain level of disdain for authority. I have always asked the whys and never settled for "because I said so". When I needed help with my dressing getting out of control, the doc (I think she was a doc) had to separate my dressing as a function of my rejection of authority or was my dressing it's own concern.

Conclusion... transgendered, but undetermined. So even my dressing at the time just didn't fit the standard molds like the rest of me not fitting.

Anthony Simon · Post by **Anthony Simon** » Mon May 16, 2011 9:30 pm

Well I do absolutely have problems with my gender identity. I mean there's a charming part that wishes I was a woman. Given that I'm a man...

On the other hand, I've been against authority just in the "why do you want to do this, this is dumb?" kind of way since the year dot. For me that's what a lot of authority is, proving you've got authority (or power) by getting people to do stuff you know is dumb (or futile or plain silly) or whatever.

I don't know, I do identify with the kid who goes "But he isn't wearing any clothes"....

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Tue May 17, 2011 1:54 am

I also am not a sheep. I do not follow crowds and I am not the sort of person that accepts authority just because others do. I am not on facebook etc. for these precise reasons.

My interests (apart from this) I think are definitely minority interests.

To me it matters not. I sometimes wish TV was more to my taste.

Carolynn · Post by **Carolynn** » Tue May 17, 2011 7:08 am

An interesting psychological question. Is a person who CDs a rule breaker? A person of independent thought? Or is a CDer a more conforming person; i.e. do you try to dress to blend in or to stand out?

Are all CDers "rule breakers" because they dress in the clothing of the other gender? Or does the sense of rebellion result from the desire to justify the cross dressing as a positive component of self image?

Is a CDer who only dresses at home as independent minded as a CDer who wears what they want out in social situations? Are there more of the closeted CDer than the out and about CDer?

It has been suggested in the literature that people with gender problems, (and like it or not gender non-conforming behavior does reflect a gender problem according to the psychs) are associated with people with mild autism? Often the willingness to ask "why" in a given situation is recognized in high funtioning autistic children, for example, because they don't understand what is going on and are kinda intellecually detached from life already so they can ask why. Of course, this could mean that politicians, religious leaders, con-men, used car salesmen, scientists and crossdressers share common psychological well-springs for their personalities?

Some psych types tend to think of social rebellion as one side of the coin of high functioning autism since they view the ability to be well socialized (conforming or understanding the rules of society) as being opposite to autism or border line personality disorder. But then, autosm is a current buzzword that garners research dollars right now as border-line personality disorder used to and still occasionally does.

How do you feel about the source of being a rule breaker or crossdresser as being a psychological aberration (greater intelligence coupled with, incomplete socialization, autism, border-line personality disorder, etc.) as opposed to being a well adjusted personality? In other words, conforming personality = proper socialization?

This kinda bothers me as that attitude (non-conformity or questioning authority) was the basis for such things as justification for committing people to asylums in the recent past in some countries and as recently as 40 years ago in the US.

Carolynn

Gillian · Post by **Gillian** » Tue May 17, 2011 9:15 am

The comments about Autism have me wondering. One of my sons worked with an Autistic boy and his parents had made him a hugging devise. He just loved to be wrapped up tightly in this devise. It kind of makes me think about myself. I love to wear snug panties, tights, and a snug body shaper. The feeling of this being wrapped up snugly is a wonderful sensation to me. I have heard that there are others that feel the same way.
As far as questioning authority....., I question everything, I want to know the why's and what fors of everything in life. I can spend days, sometimes weeks, occasionally months, and in one case years reading, researching something until I feel that I have an adequate answer to my questions. Sounds like I am boardering on the obsessive, but I obsess about lingerie also, so I wear it.

Leeza · Post by **Leeza** » Tue May 17, 2011 10:11 am

Carolynn, your post was interesting.

If it wasn't for the "why" and "why not" questions there would not be changes in socity or the way we do things.

Years ago I read an interview of a large ranch/farm owner. One of the things that realy stuck out was his comment that "most of the improvements that had come about in his operation were a result of help that he had hired with little or no farm background. They were not stuck in the that is the way it is done mental attitude."

I have worked several jobs where I informed the people I was working with that if they could come up with what they thought was a better idea we would try it unless I could give a good reason for not trying it (usualy saftey).

Why and why not require thought and questioning of the way things are done or the mental attitude of a person.

It is no wonder that people think that persons who question the norm are crazy or at least strange. If those who question aren't strange or crazy then the norm must be strange or crazy.

Leeza

Anita · Post by **Anita** » Tue May 17, 2011 11:46 am

My CDing came back strongly when I was 49 years old, after 30-some years of being dormant. It might have had something to do with rebellion and breaking the rules, but it was not my first choice for doing this.

My younger self was trying to push the limits of what society would allow.
I wanted to end sexual repression. I wanted to find safe ways to express violence between men and women. I wanted to form a rock band that would take these ideas all over the world.

I joined with other men and women who wanted these things, and we ran into a lot of resistance. I didn't see the kind of change I wanted to see. After years of this, I stopped trying. I just went to work each day, and tried to forget about my idealism.

My mind didn't stop thinking about it, though, and years later, it came up with a solution. "We'll create a need to do something radical, but this time, it'll be so compelling that you CAN'T stop trying to do it."

So it would seem on the surface that I had no choice in this, but I speculate that deep down inside, my mind knew exactly what it was doing.
I may also have hormone imbalances from time in the womb, too--I'm not discounting the biological factors here. But the mind took all these factors into play, and said, "Aha! We've got a ready-made platform here. Let's go for it!"

So now I'm out there breaking the rules, and as I said, it was not my first choice for changing the world. It has proven to be the most effective one, though. I've appeared in a documentary, spoken at churches and rallies, and my girl videos are on Youtube. Gender-switching is hard to ignore.

Anthony Simon · Post by **Anthony Simon** » Tue May 17, 2011 1:42 pm

Carolynn wrote:It has been suggested in the literature that people with gender problems, (and like it or not gender non-conforming behavior does reflect a gender problem according to the psychs) are associated with people with mild autism? Often the willingness to ask "why" in a given situation is recognized in high funtioning autistic children, for example, because they don't understand what is going on and are kinda intellecually detached from life already so they can ask why. Of course, this could mean that politicians, religious leaders, con-men, used car salesmen, scientists and crossdressers share common psychological well-springs for their personalities?

"Mild autism" strikes me as kind of like "a little bit pregant". I mean, as I understand it autism means the individual is cut-off from the world in some profound and unreachable way. From that to other forms of psychological trouble seems to involve a fudging of the kind of blankness in social interaction in autistic individuals. I want to suggest that if you assert that people are, to some extent, autistic - then you are also suggesting that, to the same extent, they are cut off from the world. So, if CDers etc derive their activities from such a place - one can ignore any social criticism that such activities might suggest because the CDers would be doing it from a place that was clueless about society. Which also answers the para below:

Some psych types tend to think of social rebellion as one side of the coin of high functioning autism since they view the ability to be well socialized (conforming or understanding the rules of society) as being opposite to autism or border line personality disorder. But then, autosm is a current buzzword that garners research dollars right now as border-line personality disorder used to and still occasionally does.

I'm just wondering if "autism" is such a buzzword because it allows people so characterised to be designated "beyond the (social) pale" using a "scientific" designation. I.E. It's a potential tool of power.

How do you feel about the source of being a rule breaker or crossdresser as being a psychological aberration (greater intelligence coupled with, incomplete socialization, autism, border-line personality disorder, etc.) as opposed to being a well adjusted personality? In other words, conforming personality = proper socialization?

Well, you know, "well-adjusted personality" is in the eyes of the beholder, just as "history is written by the victors". There is no doubt I have serious problems psycholigically, but there is a school of thought (e.g RD Laing) which says society is mad (to a greater or lesser degree) and from that derives (to a greater or lesser degree) the problems of individuals.

This kinda bothers me as that attitude (non-conformity or questioning authority) was the basis for such things as justification for committing people to asylums in the recent past in some countries and as recently as 40 years ago in the US.

Carolynn

Of course until 1989 that is what happened in the USSR. FWIW, I once wrote (maybe 10 years ago) a letter to the (London) Times saying an editorial of theirs echoed just that Stalinist way of thinking. It didn't get published, but the letters editor sent me a reply saying "it was appreciated here" - which I took to mean he would have like to have published it but it was too much of an attack on editorial team.

Post by **DonnaT** » Tue May 17, 2011 2:52 pm

I wouldn't say I question authority, especially since I've been in the position of authority a number of times.

I question those in authority which seem, IMHO, to make decisions without regard to common sense, because of some rules or guidelines that don't take into account a current situation.

And I do break rules, when convenient and not detrimental to anyone else, regardless of whether or not it might be detrimental to me, within limits.

As for CDing, I believe it to be a characteristic I was born with, regardless of my personality, just like I was born with the characteristic to be right handed, which has no influence on my personality.

My gender identity is male, with trans influence.

I doubt there is very much that one can say is typical of CDers, such a the "rebel streak" mentioned. If we all had such a streak, I doubt any of us would be closeted.

Joan · Post by **Joan** » Tue May 17, 2011 4:35 pm

The same here I also question authority and break rules, especially when i believe them them to be unfair or just plain ridiculous.

I was once even on the opening shot of main UK news for stopping the prime ministers car.

Is there a common theme amongst us here?

Joan

Robyn Katie · Post by **Robyn Katie** » Wed May 18, 2011 4:39 pm

Hi Sisters,

Well, I'm a mixture. I am very rebellious in my mind, but scared of confrontation. Therefore I rarely dare challenge authority outright, 'cause I know I won't be able to handle it properly. When I do burst out, I commonly make a mess of it. This isn't comfortable to confess, but it does bear on the question I guess.

On the other hand I go very much my own way. I am privately very unlike my society, my family, my friends and my neighbors. I took my own path years ago and my tastes, interests, yens, amusements and thinking are all more or less at right angles to most people.

I don't go out of my way to flout ruling paradigms and common opinions, but I find I differ almost constantly with them. I guess I do break rules when it's important to me and when I think I can get away with it, though I don't make a point of doing that.

(Not very brave, but practical! Sounds as if life, for me, is a constant game of chicken, huh? And maybe that's true. CDing too is a kind of chicken I suppose, isn't it.)

I suppose my CDing and my transgender soul (I self-identify as female stuck in a male body) may have both a causative and a caused relationship with the above. I am in the closet, sort of. That is, I don't want a confrontation. I wear all women's clothes all the time, but when in public choose slacks, not a skirt. I wear breast forms, but dress so they are inconspicuous. Anyone looking closely will see I'm wearing a lady's watch, femme top, maybe pink sweats, together with earrings, makeup (at times), and have a suspiciously female outline, but nothing is overt.

That could be a metaphor for my life, in which most of what I care the most about is behind closed doors. I share the things that matter the most to me with my wife who is a real soulmate, lucky me, but mostly not with anyone else. My wife is the only person who knows I CD.

So, I'm an odd sort of mixture of extreme inner rebelliousness, which rarely shows in public, and almost obsessive privacy, which makes it possible for me to live and thrive.

I don't know how this "mass of contradictions" (in Paula's phrase) relates to your question, but it does seem to offer a contrasting point of view, if that helps.

Carolynn you always ask the best questions! On your scale I guess I'm a person of independent thought who dresses to blend in.

Guess I'm not intellectually detached, as in mild autism, rather, intellectually engaged, but subversive.

Certainly I am not well socialized, in fact, barely capable socially, & I avoid social situations, which when they go wrong can destabilize me altogether. I'm far more "on the beam" when I'm solitary. Privately I just do what I want personally, and my wife and I as a couple do as we want, steering mostly clear of carping kibitzers, and love it that way.

And yes, the kid who called the Emperor on his newly tailored nakedness is a hero of mine, too. Whether I'd have dared pipe up and say so publicly, I don't know.

Love, Robyn Katie

CJ · Post by CJ » Thu May 19, 2011 8:04 am

Ah, but the question is: "Which came first? the 'Free Thinker' or the 'Free Dresser'?"

CJ

Gillian · Post by **Gillian** » Thu May 19, 2011 9:29 am

Something that Anthony Simon said,
"Mild autism" strikes me as kind of like "a little bit pregant". I mean, as I understand it autism means the individual is cut-off from the world in some profound and unreachable way.
I have a daughter who is an Edcuational Assistant with special training for working with Autistic children, and there are mild forms of autism. The trouble is that these cases often go undiagnosed. It is still a very misunderstood ailment. The thing is, all three of my children have spent time working with autistic boys, and each of these children were as differnet as night is from day. The point is that we do not understand the in's and out's of the brain, and why things like this happen. Why would someone with a penis think like a woman? Cultural convention tells us that they are male, yet these individuals think and act like women. I am not saying it is autism, I am saying that the mind is a wonderful thing, and science still does not understand it.