Gender

[Anne Bonny]

I never thought of this but Gender Identity DISORDER implies that there is something wrong. We must think differently about this it is natural for our gender to be whatever it is. Most people have a gender the same as their sex, but having a gender that is mixed or opposite generally of our sex is just the way we turned out. It is a natural development, unless someone can prove otherwise that at some point our gender was effected by something, in that case I suppose it would be altered from the norm and therefore be a disorder. I know of no trauma that would cause this - hormonal fluctuations during development I do not think would be unnatural, we inherit our genetic make up.

I think knowing that we are just being who we are based on how we happened to develop changes things.

Clearly if you gender is mostly male or mostly female things it becomes clear that a person is already same sex and gender or opposite sex and gender and transitioning is without question (for those whose gender and sex conflict) the only correct decision. What about people like us who have a varying mix a certain balance between female and male?
Where is the information for people like us who have mixed desires that do not necessarily lead us to switch sex. If we are a mix then, if we are mostly masculine gender and male sex (or the opposite) it would not be correct to change our sex when our gender is mostly the same as our sex. If we are 50/50 could go either way and the angst is probably greatest but in that case it makes more sense to remain the sex we are as to have surgery, sterility, and not have genetic attributes but ones that are constructed through surgery and assisted by artificial hormone therapy.

How on earth are we to determine if our gender is mostly one way or the other, can that even be determined? Yeah there are psychological tests but are they really valid? Tests seem very subjective, most of the time I feel I do not understand the question, and wind up having to make a choice and the answer most likely is not accurate. We are also biased too wanting the test to come out one way or the other and that can effect the choices we are making. I have never really trusted psychological tests, perhaps at best they are very crude tools - the difference between a scalpel an ax. I do not know how far my opposite gender tendencies extend because I am fearful and hide it leading to a degree of angst. I wish people could get over it and accept that there simply are people who are mixed up, not confused, we just vary. therefore depending on how we happen to feel at any particular time, and for a varying period of time will determine how we present. I believe for myself I present more male-male than male-female but that is very much effected because I hide and am fearful others will find out and that it will have a negative impact on me (In reality that is why I believe opening the door and telling others more and more is healthy and beneficial. Truth is very liberating, it may be painful for the short term but in the end like those for who a change of sex is definitely the correct decision, I believe for myself and those of mixed gender coming out of the closet is definitely the only correct decision and for us it is as important as surgery to transition is for those who's sex and gender are mostly opposed to each other.

The question "What is our reason for telling someone?" It implies we are exhibitionists, self gratifying, selfish. Is being who we are selfish? Our mixed gender just is, it is a fact, it is just who we are. We are free to open the door or not or to do it to some degree but clearing the air is the best and only correct choice and chips must fall where they may because we are talking about living with an open wound vs being able to heal. It that means our family reacts poorly, or fail to understand, if we lose our job and have difficulty finding work, if we are subject to hostility by society - even so it is much more healthy for us to breath free air, and to heave a sigh of relief. The choice in how we handle it is up to us, but we will never be fully healthy physically, or emotionally until we have no secrets from anybody and live openly with everyone.

I believe we are lucky that today we are supported by the law against discrimination. How much and how long will we live with this cognitive dissonance or angst? We will never heal and be healthy until we are completely out and free.

[Carolynn]

Timing of hormone flooding events during fetal development seems to be a very likely culprit. Physical develoment takes place between the 6th and 12th week of pregnancy, and a male body develops then due to the presence of the SRY gene on the Y chromosome. Brain development takes place during the second half of pregnancy, and that makes it possible for a brain/body mismatch. Ideally, androgens flood from the developed male anatomy, and affect the brain development. But, there can be estrogen floods instead during brain development, coming from the mother across the placental barrier and that can feminize the brain to varying degrees. There are also medications that can affect the hormonal flood, including a prostogladin called DES that was given to mothers at risk for miscarriages, medications used for sypmptoms of epilipsy, and some meds for depression. These can affect the timing of the hormonal floods. If the placental barrier is breached due to these meds, or other meds that affect the release of the fetal homones, then the brain development falls back to the norm and a feminine brain is the result. The sense of gender develops in the Hypothalmus and a portion of the Amygdala, as does sexual orientation. Analysis of cadaver brains has shown that structures in the INAH3 in transexuals are the same as heterosexual GGs, and the BSTc shows the same neuron numbers and pattern as GG females as well. Functional MRI (fMRI) has been used to monitor responses to stimulus such as pheromones, photographs and puzzles, and the same areas light up in TS/TG folk brains as the GG female brains. F2M trans folk follow the male pattern in the BSTc and INAH3, and in their response to pheromones and photos in fMRI.

Additional work in the western US and in Australia also point to the effects of too many copies of the AR genes in the choromosomes. There are usally 16 -20 copies of the androgen receptor gene in the chromosome, and if there are more the effect seems to be that androgen binds very poorly with the developed receptors. They found in genetic anaysis that there are more extra copies of the AR gene in trans folk than in "normal" people. This could also affect the brain development during the fetal stages.

Since this takes place before birth, I would think it is an intersex condition, but the members of the Intersex Society of North America do not recognize TS/TG as such because the condition is contained in the brain and not as a external physical defect.

As far as GID, even the charlatans behind the DSM5 have had to backtrack and stop calling it a disorder, but merely gender dysphoria.

For the study see: Swaab, Dick F., Garcia-Falgueras, Alicia. Sexual Differentiation of the Human Brain in relation to Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation. Functional Neurology, Jan-Mar 2009.

for an online reproduction of the study go to: http://aebrain.blogspot.com/p/sexual-di ... brain.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

See as well, "One Gene Keeps Mickey From Turning Into Minnie" http://blogs.discovermanazine.com/notro ... innie.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Using the usual medical analog of mice and rats, a study shows that gender identity may not be permanent, but is instead a balancing acting between a couple of genes - DMRT1 and FOXL2.

In humans, people who inherit faulty copies of FOXL2 can develop a rare disease called BPES which can lead to infertility because the ovaries development is hijacked. On the flipside, geneitc males who are born without copies of the DMTR1 can develop SWYER syndrome, which prevents testes form developing and they develop and are born as normal girls with uterus and vagina, but incomplete ovaries. They do not go through puberty though nor can they concieve without help and outside hormones. (not the same condition as Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome). So called "medical ethicists" now call intersex "Disorders of Sexual Development", For some reason, the intersex society don't like that either. Of course a medical disorder is supposed to be different from a mental disorder.......

Carolynn

[Anne Bonny]

I believe my gender is not either or but degrees of both perhaps 60/40 so I suppose the your study infers that if not addressed directly. It's all a matter of variation isn't it? Wouldn't it be truly wonderful to have this thing confirmed and be able to wave the lab result in other's faces and say SEE!! It's not a perverted desire or a fetish for opposite gender clothing it is because my hypothalamus developed this way naturally!!!! This is why I sometimes feel and enjoy being feminine because my gender is, partly feminine! It would be wonderful to be able to prove all of this definitively. This is why at times I want to submit, love feeling pretty, feel very close to girls and enjoy many of the same things in the same ways yet remain heterosexual.

I do believe even if we were able to prove the facts are all on our side there will always be a hard core that will still believe - well, you need to compensate and stop doing it simply because it does not fit in the nice tidy package that there are two sexes and two genders and they are always the same- female female, male male. Ok it is time to take a break.

Thanks Donna, I remember, and they were right to remove the aura of stigma from it.

[DonnaT]

In thee latest DSM-5, "Gender Identity Disorder" has been renamed to "Gender Dysphoria," after criticisms that the former term was stigmatizing.

[Ralitsa]

Is this what the world is now?
So I was listening to the radio a few days ago, they were talking about bullying in schools, and the expert was making some comment about kids who do not fit in or "have a diagnosis." That phrase was telling.
We have all these boxes: boys; girls; TG; TS; TV; etc. and you need to fit comfortably in your box, and if you want out then you have to go to the doctor and get your diagnosis. This will be a little piece of paper that allows you to deviate from the rules applied to people in the boy box, and you can get a different label stamped on your head instead.

WOW!!!

What if, just what if, I don't want a label? What if I don't want anything in particular? I suppose it's really easy for me, because people need me more than I need them. I can afford to ignore most anyone, whereas, whether it's work or family, they mostly want something from me. The very few friends that I have either accomodate my idiosyncracies, or they are not my friends. I have a close friend (GG) who has some more masculine tendencies than I have, she gets extremely annoyed with some ways women behave. On the other hand I do some of those things myself. I have no use at all for most stereotypical male behavior, such as watching football and yelling at the coach and the ref as if they could either hear, or would care if they did.

Whatever happened to the good old summarization of "he/she is just weird, don't worry about it." Why does there have to be a reason?

[Anne Bonny]

We are all different, raised in different circumstances and times. I am working my way into the open after 56 years. Some are more courageous than I but I am doing the best I can doing it my way.

[Karin]

I am doing the best I can doing it my way.

That's all anyone can do Anne. I had a period where it was all why, why, WHY? I just had to know. Yet strangely, it was at the point of acceptance that all that stopped. It just is. I'm a girl. So that in itself explains why I'm like I am? Since then I've set about telling just about everyone and nobody is shocked. Life's far more relaxed now..the struggling has stopped.

The correct decision is whatever you need it to be. If you don't barf every time you see certain bits of yourself..don't change them.

The current guidelines here are also dysphoria and not disorder. This means that there's nothing to 'cure' as such. 'Catering for' until comfortable,is all that can be done. Its also no longer a mental disorder, but a 'neurological development'.

Thanks to Carolynn, I found your post very interesting! XXX.

[Ms. Erin]

Hi ladies, I haven't been here in a while, I have been doing intensive research, therapy meetings (1on1 and group) to find more info about my self.

After I came out to my mom, she accepts me, she told me not long ago that she is a DES mother, and I am a DES son. So that got me searching into that matter. My therapist did diagnosed me with Gender Dysphoria, however my primary care provider called me Gender Disorder, but she might have been confused and use the old term.

Me and my mom are now both doing more research, if I might use that word, and her doctor is checking on it as well. However, I am from 1963 so the change we find medical documents is slim, also because her doctor in that time past away many years ago. 6 months on DES equals to about 50000 pills of birth control, so a huge dosis of female hormones, might have caused hormone imbalance..

BTW, on another note, the state of Virginia has now updated my drivers license to female gender.

[Anthony Simon]

Hi, Erin.

From Wiki:

Research on DES sons has explored the long-standing question of whether prenatal exposure to DES in males may include sexual and gender-related behavioral effects and also intersex conditions. Dr. Scott Kerlin, a major DES researcher and founder of the DES Sons International Research Network in 1999, has documented for the past 16 years a high prevalence of individuals with confirmed prenatal DES exposure who self-identify as male-to-female transsexual, transgender, or have intersex conditions, and many individuals who report a history of experiencing difficulties with gender dysphoria.[45][46][47][48]

...Various neurological changes occur after prenatal exposure of embryonic males to DES and other estrogenic endocrine disrupters. Animals that exhibited these structural neurological changes were also shown to demonstrate various gender-related behavioral changes (so-called "feminization of males"). Several published studies in the medical literature on psychoneuroendocrinology have examined the hypothesis that prenatal exposure to estrogens (including DES) may cause significant developmental impact on sexual differentiation of the brain, and on subsequent behavioral and gender identity development in exposed males and females.[49][50] There is significant evidence linking prenatal hormonal influences on gender identity and transsexual development.[51][52][53]

I didn't know this stuff. It sounds kind of compelling.

[Domonique]

Anne, great post. I stopped to analyze myself as I was reading it. On one side of the coin I stopped wanting to be excepted years ago because I found out that people are so crude and rude. The one sided thoughts that are programmed into us by society are mundane and useless to me. All my life I have been an outsider to "normal" male groups, even as a child. As a teen listening to "normal" male teens being vulgar to each other and about the female gender just sickened me as it still does today.

On the flip side of that coin, I have always wondered (and still do) why I am the way I am. If these facts are all true, It would explain a lot. When I was 4 years old I was still a boy in my own mind. I played with my trucks and pop guns and so fourth. What was the trigger that opened the door to start me on my journey. If at least one of the instances that has been mentioned in this forum has happened to me before birth, then there has to be a trigger to engage that dysphoria. Think, think back through your childhood. What was that one little incident that flipped on that receptor in your brain that said," I want to wear a dress" ?

My Trigger, my brothers and I were put in dresses and made to sit outside in them as a punishment because we were picking on my sisters. We had to wear them all day long for the whole world to see. I vaguely remember that whole day but I do remember saying that I wouldn't mind wearing one again. From that point on I would always want to "wear a dress".

Nowadays, I wear my fem jeans and t-shirts and tanks as I go about my day working at my job. I put forth both sides of me each day to let people know that I am easy to get along with but will not be taken advantage of. I have been called "sweet" by most woman, and a " nice guy" by men.

Sure, I am judged every now and then for what I am wearing, questioned about why I have phat kat jeans on but I am always quick with a response to those who are worthy of one. I don't make excuses either. I just tell them " because I like them".


When the proof is in the pudding, when they can actually prove that our "Gender Dysphoria" happens before birth, I will be one of the first to take on society full force to gain total acceptance. In the meantime, I am happy with who I am. I am the girl that lives as a man that likes to dress as a woman.

I guess, in my view, as research continues into "Gender Dysphoria" we will always be judged by society as have something wrong with us.

Ralitsa said it best " People will need me more that I will need them."