Hi Darlene,
Your posts keep my mind rolling and I do thank you for that.
Perhaps the first letter should be sent to a symbolic place first.
It being the first one and all.
I guess history is full of such letters---or declarations---or manifesto's---
but I wonder if we sent one letter(of collective content) to a specific person---one Symbolic person---who in talking to would bring out our best effort ----and then sending that letter off.
and posting that reply in this thread....
I wonder who that person would be?
(hmmmmmmmm)
--------------------------------TC
History of our success at educating society.
Moderators: KimberlyS, CathyAnn
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Loretta Ann
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Loretta Ann
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CJ,
Thank you
CJ I knew where you stood on changing and helping others, and I thought you knew that I have no problem with where you are on that issue. I was confronting your words not you. and I have reasons for doing that, that have nothing to do with you. You have my full respect, and I hope you are strong enough to understand that. I ask you to trust me, there is a method to what I am doing
Thank you
Chaffed me a little bit so I thought it was fair game to respond as I did, I felt I was extending the same courtesy that you extended to me. I took no offense and thought we were playing on a level ball field.Your statement;
The best way to make a difference is to not hide behind a sense of futility, behind an ornery fatalism, however justified we may think it is. Usually, those who believe they have no power, don't.
CJ I knew where you stood on changing and helping others, and I thought you knew that I have no problem with where you are on that issue. I was confronting your words not you. and I have reasons for doing that, that have nothing to do with you. You have my full respect, and I hope you are strong enough to understand that. I ask you to trust me, there is a method to what I am doing
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Kathy
- Miss Platinum Goddess
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Over the past few days I have been sitting here pondering my situation and the question of quantifying our results. I thought of a young lady I have seen walking around the "downtown" area of our small rural village of about 500 people. I have to claim total ignorance of the subject but I have heard others refer to her as a Goth.
I remember the very first time I saw her with her face made up totally white with black around the eyes and black lipstick and nail polish. Black hair and long flowing black dress. I remember my initial reaction as being "what the h**l was that?". I simply could not understand why anyone would want to dress like that. Later, after I got home, I was looking for something in my closet and I stopped in my tracks as I looked at the clothes I have hanging in there. And I thought back to that girl and issued a mental apology for thinking the way I did.
Lately, after reading the posts in this forum, I have been thinking about that girl. I still see her around town from time to time, always dressed similarly. I have seen others, both male and female, down in the next, much larger town. I thought that their appearance is far more startling than anything I have in my closet and they are being seen by the very same people I would be.
So I conducted an experiment for my own benefit. I dressed in my soft powder blue t-shirt and a pair of stretch twill kahki slacks. Both of those items have decidedly feminine detailing. I then got in my car and drove into the larger town to do my regular errands and shopping. I stopped for gas at a busy station, stopped at the bank in the heart of town to use the ATM, and picked up a few groceries at the store.
Did I get some strange looks? Absolutely. But I just smiled and nodded my head in greeting and they just went about their business as I did mine. Nobody acosted me either physically or verbally. So I'll consider my outing a positive experience for me. Several dozen people in a rural, generally "redneck" town just got a good look at a man wearing women's clothing.
Can I quantify this? No, I didn't stop to count how many people saw me. Did I have a positive, negative or no effect at all on anyone's thinking? I have no idea. I never had a conversation with any of them to find out. But the fact that I was allowed to go about my business while they went on about theirs tells me that there was acceptance there on some level.
Oh, and on my way home I stopped at the post office to pick up the mail. On my way out, who did I meet at the door? Our young Goth who looked at me as I looked at her. We both just smiled and went our own way.
I remember the very first time I saw her with her face made up totally white with black around the eyes and black lipstick and nail polish. Black hair and long flowing black dress. I remember my initial reaction as being "what the h**l was that?". I simply could not understand why anyone would want to dress like that. Later, after I got home, I was looking for something in my closet and I stopped in my tracks as I looked at the clothes I have hanging in there. And I thought back to that girl and issued a mental apology for thinking the way I did.
Lately, after reading the posts in this forum, I have been thinking about that girl. I still see her around town from time to time, always dressed similarly. I have seen others, both male and female, down in the next, much larger town. I thought that their appearance is far more startling than anything I have in my closet and they are being seen by the very same people I would be.
So I conducted an experiment for my own benefit. I dressed in my soft powder blue t-shirt and a pair of stretch twill kahki slacks. Both of those items have decidedly feminine detailing. I then got in my car and drove into the larger town to do my regular errands and shopping. I stopped for gas at a busy station, stopped at the bank in the heart of town to use the ATM, and picked up a few groceries at the store.
Did I get some strange looks? Absolutely. But I just smiled and nodded my head in greeting and they just went about their business as I did mine. Nobody acosted me either physically or verbally. So I'll consider my outing a positive experience for me. Several dozen people in a rural, generally "redneck" town just got a good look at a man wearing women's clothing.
Can I quantify this? No, I didn't stop to count how many people saw me. Did I have a positive, negative or no effect at all on anyone's thinking? I have no idea. I never had a conversation with any of them to find out. But the fact that I was allowed to go about my business while they went on about theirs tells me that there was acceptance there on some level.
Oh, and on my way home I stopped at the post office to pick up the mail. On my way out, who did I meet at the door? Our young Goth who looked at me as I looked at her. We both just smiled and went our own way.
Through his thoughts, man holds the key to every situation and contains within himself that transforming and regenerative agency by which he may make himself what he wills. - James Allen, As a Man Thinketh
Whatever you accomplish in life is a manifestation not so much of what you do, as of what you believe deeply within yourself that you deserve. - Les Brown
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Tea Cake
- Miss Emerald Goddess
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:20 pm
- Location: Ak
your folding swan
Words are the paper for oragami. It is the forms they are folded into---- that give them their merit.
As you fold and tell of your experience with your "shadow" I am reminded how the ideas we discuss seem to manifest around us in our everyday-------
I wonder what ideas on tolerance MsGoth reflected on as she noticed you?
That was a confident move---and sounds rewarding.
--thanks for sharing it.
-----------------------------Tc
As you fold and tell of your experience with your "shadow" I am reminded how the ideas we discuss seem to manifest around us in our everyday-------
I wonder what ideas on tolerance MsGoth reflected on as she noticed you?
That was a confident move---and sounds rewarding.
--thanks for sharing it.
-----------------------------Tc
Well done, Kathy! 
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Elizabeth
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1878
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 3:02 am
Darlene,
During the time when the hippies were challenging the rules of society I was a kid just finding out I liked girls clothes. I was 10. My parents were liberal and against the Vietnam war. My oldest brother was tackled down in the High School by the principal and counselors and they cut his hair with sissors. I was kicked out of 5th grade chorus because I would not cut my hair, and was threatened to be kicked off the little league football team for the same reason, until my dad threatened the coach. And when they found out that I did not mind being kicked out of chorus, they let me back in after a one week absense. The point is, now you can demonstrate an unjust war, my kids can wear their hair anyway they like it. Boys can wear girls jeans and earrings in both ears to school or anywhere else. Interracial couples are not an uncommon thing and really don't attract much attention any more. Gays and lesbians can now live openly and still be able to rent or buy a house.
It is not possible for me to beleive that everything changes except our acceptance. It is my belief that over time, acceptance will come. We will not be able to mark it one victory at a time, but that is how it will happen. Every time some 10 year old kid won't cut his hair. That is how it will happen. And it is inevitable, in my opinion.
Lastly, I want to touch on forgiveness. When someone dislikes me, I can only feel that dislike as they express it to me. Absent that expression I don't feel the hate or anger. However, when I am angry at someone, or hate them, I have to feel that hate and anger all the time. I forgive people for me. So I don't have to carry any more anger with me than I must. I don't forgive people for them, I do it for me, and if they choose not to forgive me, I am still better off. It is they that will have to live with anger and hatred, not me. And I know how consuming hate can be. Forgiving others is the ultimate selfish act.
Love always,
Eliazbeth
During the time when the hippies were challenging the rules of society I was a kid just finding out I liked girls clothes. I was 10. My parents were liberal and against the Vietnam war. My oldest brother was tackled down in the High School by the principal and counselors and they cut his hair with sissors. I was kicked out of 5th grade chorus because I would not cut my hair, and was threatened to be kicked off the little league football team for the same reason, until my dad threatened the coach. And when they found out that I did not mind being kicked out of chorus, they let me back in after a one week absense. The point is, now you can demonstrate an unjust war, my kids can wear their hair anyway they like it. Boys can wear girls jeans and earrings in both ears to school or anywhere else. Interracial couples are not an uncommon thing and really don't attract much attention any more. Gays and lesbians can now live openly and still be able to rent or buy a house.
It is not possible for me to beleive that everything changes except our acceptance. It is my belief that over time, acceptance will come. We will not be able to mark it one victory at a time, but that is how it will happen. Every time some 10 year old kid won't cut his hair. That is how it will happen. And it is inevitable, in my opinion.
Lastly, I want to touch on forgiveness. When someone dislikes me, I can only feel that dislike as they express it to me. Absent that expression I don't feel the hate or anger. However, when I am angry at someone, or hate them, I have to feel that hate and anger all the time. I forgive people for me. So I don't have to carry any more anger with me than I must. I don't forgive people for them, I do it for me, and if they choose not to forgive me, I am still better off. It is they that will have to live with anger and hatred, not me. And I know how consuming hate can be. Forgiving others is the ultimate selfish act.
Love always,
Eliazbeth
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Tea Cake
- Miss Emerald Goddess
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:20 pm
- Location: Ak
a wolf?
" Tis ill 'gainst wolf to be wolfish,
hard will that wolf harry your herds once he runs into the forest"
-Snorri Sturluson
History of the Kings of Norway
I believe that the nature of a wolf---when used in that context--is a reflection on the internal result
of meeting anger with anger.
And how to meet anger?
There is Just one virtue.
There is no need to memorize a list.
there is only one seed
that all the others branch out from.
They are just different names for compassion.
It exists without us.
It only passes through us
on the way to somone else.
The same way that somewhere on this planet there is always a dog barking
Somewhere right now.
Compassion is not feeling sorry for someone
It is acknowledging the thread of humanity that connects us together.
THat anger, in this case,---though a solo-emotional experience---can live in any of our hearts for a time
because we are all too human
and life shows us all ---through changing circumstance
that none of us are beyond this truth
We feel sorrow when ourselves and the people who surround us aren't living up to the amazing possibilities that we sense in our hearts.
Elizabeth your words point to wholeness
and a beautiful lightness of being
You gladen my heart
Thank you!
hard will that wolf harry your herds once he runs into the forest"
-Snorri Sturluson
History of the Kings of Norway
I believe that the nature of a wolf---when used in that context--is a reflection on the internal result
of meeting anger with anger.
And how to meet anger?
There is Just one virtue.
There is no need to memorize a list.
there is only one seed
that all the others branch out from.
They are just different names for compassion.
It exists without us.
It only passes through us
on the way to somone else.
The same way that somewhere on this planet there is always a dog barking
Somewhere right now.
Compassion is not feeling sorry for someone
It is acknowledging the thread of humanity that connects us together.
THat anger, in this case,---though a solo-emotional experience---can live in any of our hearts for a time
because we are all too human
and life shows us all ---through changing circumstance
that none of us are beyond this truth
We feel sorrow when ourselves and the people who surround us aren't living up to the amazing possibilities that we sense in our hearts.
Elizabeth your words point to wholeness
and a beautiful lightness of being
You gladen my heart
Thank you!
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Kathy
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 2:38 pm
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As Elizabeth says, forgiveness is the ultimate selfish act. It releases you from the feelings of revenge, hatred and anger and allows you to move forward in peace. No other thought or action toward those who are forgiven is required.Revenge, anger and hatred are exceedingly low energies that keep you from matching up with the attributes of the universal force. A simple thought of forgiveness toward anyone who angered you in the past - without any action taken on your part - will raise you to the level of Spirit and aid you in your individual intentions. - Dr. Wayne W. Dyer, The Power of Intention
Thank you Elizabeth, that was a wonderful post.
Whatever you accomplish in life is a manifestation not so much of what you do, as of what you believe deeply within yourself that you deserve. - Les Brown
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Loretta Ann
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Elizabeth
- Miss Ruby Goddess
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- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 3:02 am
Hi girls,
I revived this thread because it was suggested that we could mark our successes in getting society to accept us.
I was looking back at my July 7th post about painted toenails, which was my first adventure out into the public. Then my July 26th post where my kids seen me dressed and in makeup, the first ever persons to see Elizabeth. My August 6th post going out en femme for the first timeand my August 14th post going out dressed with my kids.
I am certain I have dressed in girls clothes every day since August 14th.
I would like to report total acceptance. I have not gone out at night to GLBT friendly places. I have been out at all times.
To the grocery store, to the bank, to the post office, to the mall, to Wal-Mart, to the theatre, to get my hair cut(femme), to the gas station, to my kids friends house.
My oldest son has told all of his friends, my oldest daughter has told all of her friends, my 13 year old son has told his best friend and one other friend and my 10 year old son has told his best friend and one other friend.
I can report what appears to be 100% acceptance. And while in Wal-mart with my kids, in what should have been stressfull for a newly out crossdresser, I witnessed my lowest blood pressure reading ever, after having borderline high blood pressure since my early teens.
It would appear that crossdressing not only feels right to me, but it seems it is good for me. I feel totally relaxed and natural when out en femme.
I know, I am in Southern California, try that in Wyoming, Oklahoma, or Alabama? All I can say, is that here in southern California, I feel totally accepted by society and love California even more than I did.
So here, for the math, I want to report this one victory.
Love always,
Elizabeth
I revived this thread because it was suggested that we could mark our successes in getting society to accept us.
I wanted to report my success at being accepted by society. I have not counted the days now, but I do not now remember the last time I got up in the morning and put boy clothes on. I am em femme almost 24/7 now.Darlene wrote:
So I am saying to you all go for it, don't believe me, record it here, and let math determine our success rate. Prove me wrong, I would like that.
I was looking back at my July 7th post about painted toenails, which was my first adventure out into the public. Then my July 26th post where my kids seen me dressed and in makeup, the first ever persons to see Elizabeth. My August 6th post going out en femme for the first timeand my August 14th post going out dressed with my kids.
I am certain I have dressed in girls clothes every day since August 14th.
I would like to report total acceptance. I have not gone out at night to GLBT friendly places. I have been out at all times.
To the grocery store, to the bank, to the post office, to the mall, to Wal-Mart, to the theatre, to get my hair cut(femme), to the gas station, to my kids friends house.
My oldest son has told all of his friends, my oldest daughter has told all of her friends, my 13 year old son has told his best friend and one other friend and my 10 year old son has told his best friend and one other friend.
I can report what appears to be 100% acceptance. And while in Wal-mart with my kids, in what should have been stressfull for a newly out crossdresser, I witnessed my lowest blood pressure reading ever, after having borderline high blood pressure since my early teens.
It would appear that crossdressing not only feels right to me, but it seems it is good for me. I feel totally relaxed and natural when out en femme.
I know, I am in Southern California, try that in Wyoming, Oklahoma, or Alabama? All I can say, is that here in southern California, I feel totally accepted by society and love California even more than I did.
So here, for the math, I want to report this one victory.
Love always,
Elizabeth
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Beauty
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Hi Elizabeth,
I think that's a wonderful recap and thanks for bringing the topic back up to the top!
It sounds like you're being smart and careful and that's all we really want to do. As I said in Nyoka's thread. We're all just one bad person away from being harmed or killed. What we do in the public can be dangerous still.
I don't mean to rain on your thread or anything Elizabeth, I just want folks to be careful out there.
Are there any safety precautions you take that you can pass along to those who are also thinking about going out? That question isn't just for Elizabeth if others have ideas.
Congrats Elizabeth! 
It really sounds like you've found a very good place.
Beauty
I think that's a wonderful recap and thanks for bringing the topic back up to the top!
It sounds like you're being smart and careful and that's all we really want to do. As I said in Nyoka's thread. We're all just one bad person away from being harmed or killed. What we do in the public can be dangerous still.
I don't mean to rain on your thread or anything Elizabeth, I just want folks to be careful out there.
Are there any safety precautions you take that you can pass along to those who are also thinking about going out? That question isn't just for Elizabeth if others have ideas.
Congrats Elizabeth!
It really sounds like you've found a very good place. Beauty
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Virginia
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Elizabeth
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Beauty,
I am always mindful of the fact that us crossdressers are not safe out in public. There are many who feel threatened by us. We are just a few beers away from being on the business end of some other persons weapon.
One of the big hurdles I have yet to leap is the going to the restroom in public. I am veryafraid to go into a men's restroom dressed. But I am also afraid some woman is going to flip out if I use the womens restroom. So far I just go before I leave, don't drink anything while I am out, and if I do have to go. hold it. This limits me to 4-5 hours tops.
Having said all that, so far I have not received so much as a dirty look. I really get treated better than when I am dressed in boy mode. It is like people are attracted to me. I was not in the grocery store 20 seconds today before someone started up a conversations with me. Yesterday in Ross a woman talked to me for over 20 mins while we looked at nighties. I later saw the same woman at Payless and she came over talked to me again.
It seems I have been frightened for no reason. I can't help wonder how many would have similar experiences if they just went out? Well, thanks for the words of encouragement, and the words of warning, you are such a sweetheart to always think of others like you do.
Love always,
Elizabeth
I am always mindful of the fact that us crossdressers are not safe out in public. There are many who feel threatened by us. We are just a few beers away from being on the business end of some other persons weapon.
One of the big hurdles I have yet to leap is the going to the restroom in public. I am veryafraid to go into a men's restroom dressed. But I am also afraid some woman is going to flip out if I use the womens restroom. So far I just go before I leave, don't drink anything while I am out, and if I do have to go. hold it. This limits me to 4-5 hours tops.
Having said all that, so far I have not received so much as a dirty look. I really get treated better than when I am dressed in boy mode. It is like people are attracted to me. I was not in the grocery store 20 seconds today before someone started up a conversations with me. Yesterday in Ross a woman talked to me for over 20 mins while we looked at nighties. I later saw the same woman at Payless and she came over talked to me again.
It seems I have been frightened for no reason. I can't help wonder how many would have similar experiences if they just went out? Well, thanks for the words of encouragement, and the words of warning, you are such a sweetheart to always think of others like you do.
Love always,
Elizabeth