What drives me crazy?

[Georgia(SO)]

Hi. I'm Georgia(so) - SO of a bi-CD and new to this group There are things that drive me crazy so what I'm fixing to say is neither a big, big issue (like feeling like you've been deceived for 25 years), but rather the little stuff that makes me want to go scream sometimes. OTOH, some of it *is* big stuff that's a bit more difficult to handle.

I must apologize and explain in advance - this is likely to be long and a bit of a rant. I do support my sweetie's CDing, at least in theory. But just as if he fished or golfed 24/7, there would be parts that would drive me absolutely batshit, there are parts of this that drive me batshit. I probably just need to unload today while he's away on business and I'm both missing him and all the stuff that's crazy-making has stuffed up my head somewhat!

A little background. We've been together around 2.5 years. Sort of evolved into being together, rather than dating, moving in, etc. We had been working together on a project (we both are self employed) for a couple of years, long distance, and I had come from TX to SC to work with him for a month or so. There had always been phenomenal sexual chemistry between us, but he was dating a friend of mine, so it was just serious flirting and nothing more. But man, the electricity was like nothing I've ever felt - just raw fireworks. The same for him - as ya'll know, you don't get that kind of flame unless it's mutual.

A couple years ago, I came out here for a month. During that time, the world fell apart - finances, car died, roommate moved out and left me high and dry, etc. I was ready for a change and couldn't quite get back to TX and decided to move to SC. He said I could stay with him until I could get my own place. Well, you guys guessed the rest. It has now evolved into a long-term committed relationship - we would get married except that both of us have done 2 divorces and neither of us has the stomach for another wedding. He's a phenomenal man, and we work together very well - we have now sorta merged the businesses - and he is fascinating and brilliant and fun and loving and quite frankly, a real blast and a half.

He had always told me that he "wasn't normal", but I thought he meant that he was adventurous, out of the box thinker - that sort of thing. Never once guessed that this mustachioed cowboy scientist CDed. I figured there was a kink in there somewhere, and eventually guessed that maybe he liked panties. He had to tell me that he dresses all the way up, and that he likes men when he's dressed, (or dresses when he's interested in men? Which comes first - chicken or egg?) and women when he's being male. I felt so sad for him - he was so scared to tell me, so determined to actually get the truth out early before he fell hard for me, so garbled in saying it that I had to really work to understand the words, much less the meaning of it.

Well, I thought about it. We were still in that semi-monogamous stage where you *can* date other people, but it probably isn't a great idea. Now, my best friend is bi, and I have watched her struggle with trying to limit herself to one gender choice and so I thought I could handle this - the guy part of him would be *my* guy and the girl part of him would be - uh - free to play.

We tried that a couple of times and man, I just don't like to share. At all. I had warned him about this, and finally told him a while back that I came to the conclusion that screwing around is screwing around no matter who is wearing what or whether its male or female or shemale or whatever. Period. So, he's cut the personal visits out, but he still cyber sexes. That rankles - it's not quite the same thing as just plain smut surfing, as there's some sort of interpersonal thing going on, and I feel left out, but he seems to be tiring of it and I'm being quiet for the moment.

As best I can tell, he's been dressing and flirting in friendly bars since he was in his late 20s (he's 53, I'm 49), but has only carried it into actual contact in the last couple of years after a nasty divorce in which she accused him of doing many things he wasn't. Like many of us, if we're going to get busted for doing something, you might as well do it.... I'm the same way, so I certainly understand that.

I don't have a problem with him being bi. I have a problem with him not being available for me when I want him. I have a problem with the hot sexy guy that seduced me within an inch of my soul just disappearing. As soon as I moved in, he was gone. It's not the gradual cooling of a hot affair as you become accustomed to one another - he was *gone*. Period. I don't know if this has to do with the CDing, or if he's really afraid (after said 2 divorces) to give his heart, soul and body - if I've got the heart and soul, but the body is being withheld. If I ask about it (geez, how gently can you say "Why don't we have hot sex?"), he says something about "because he's being a wuss" and I can almost guarantee that he'll be wanting to dress and withdraw and feel bad about himself the next day. Obviously, this is not a question I ask often.

As for his dressing, he apparently had tried dressing fully around previous wives/gf/etc. and says it doesn't work so well. He'll wear a little sundress around me, but he also says that being fully decked out in front of me "mortifies" him. The one time I walked in unexpectedly and found him in lipstick, it startled me. I left him with a mustache and boy clothes - came home to find him wearing lipstick, nail polish and a pretty little bra, and although I managed to not do anything utterly stupid, I must have looked stupefied. Sorry, but the first time is a big old clanging surprise, even if you know about it.

At any rate, you asked what makes me crazy. Oh boy. Bunches of stuff. It makes me crazy when he wants to wear the things that I had to grow up to be able to wear - nail polish, stockings, makeup, bra. It makes me crazy that my feminine side is somehow threatened by him being in my territory - I can't believe that I, a feminine feminist, am jealous of that. Hell, that is so far removed from anything that I believed about myself that it took me months to realize what that feeling actually was - just plain nasty jealousy.

It makes me crazy that his femme side is this uber slut bitch - she's everything that we all hate about women. Nasty, backbiting, into nothing but clothes, silly -- He's got a better grip on her after one particularly ugly evening, but I'm really aware that she *also* wants to be the only girl in his life. It's so differentiated as to almost feel like its somewhere on the scale of multiple personalities - although I'm aware that I also have one of those bitches in me. It's like her whole point in life is to take care of him - solely and completely, selfishly, and with absolute no regard for anyone but her/him. *He's* wonderful, as a man. No, she'll never hit me, and I also have one of those uber bitches in me, who is perfectly capable of staring his down, but it isn't fun and I don't particularly care to play with her. Damn sure don't want her for my friend.

I hate that our sex life is, at best, tepid. No, he doesn't come to bed as her - but it's like all the fire in the relationship is now saved for when he can cyber with the boys. I just don't get this part of it. No matter how hard I try. This man would stand next to me in a meeting and have to close his jacket because just being close to me would give him - uh - an obvious reaction. Then, I'm here, and available, and despite my obvious skills , I can't get him interested much of the time. As I said, there's this wall there that probably has far more to do with past heartbreak issues than CDing...

The other things that drive me crazy - It's really hard to be a bottom when your stud muffin is wearing panties with puppy dog pawprints and a pink eyelet bra!

It's really hard to listen to "Why can't I go out dressed like this?" when if *I* went out dressed like that, I too would be arrested or accosted or attacked. And they wouldn't call it a hate crime for me - nope, they would say I was asking for it.

It makes me crazy wondering when *she* will surface again and take him away, even for a few hours of playtime on the internet. I find myself looking for signs that she's coming back. The hair on his legs is so fine and blond that he looks shaved all the time anyway, and I find myself touching him to see if he *has* shaved, or if I'm going to get to have the night with my *guy*. It makes me crazy looking at old pictures of him, from before us, en stud, and wondering if his toenails were painted in those Tony Lamas.

It makes me crazy that this uber bitch is whom he chooses to personify as his feminine side. I know his male side doesn't not disrepect women - why does his female side? It makes me crazy that I can't ask him these questions because he is (understandably) crazy sensitive about it.

It makes me crazy that he doesn't feel good about himself after he's spent a while dressing, and that he doesn't feel good about himself if he doesn't dress.

It makes me crazy to know that when he lived alone, he dressed a lot, and that (working from home), he dressed in whatever he wanted to - boy clothes, girl clothes, stark naked, jammies...and that he doesn't dress in girl clothes now at work because I'm there - it makes me feel in the way in our office and in our home. *He* never says I'm in the way - *I* feel in the way.

It makes me crazy that as her, he likes all the silly girly manure that I don't like in my women friends - shopping, shopping, shopping, shopping, pink, frills, goopie girly crap that I outgrew at 6. It makes me crazy that when I see that obnoxious new Gap ad with Sarah Jessica Parker singing "I love being a girl" that I find myself looking at him to see if he's quietly singing along.

It makes me crazy that any of this makes me crazy! I don't want *him* to change. Where could I possibly get off wanting *him* to change. I don't want to limit what he can wear, or where - what on God's green earth would give me that right? I want *my* reactions to change, and am absolutely appalled to find these thoughts ranging around in my head.

And it drives me crazy that he doesn't want me to talk to my bi best friend in Texas - the one person on the face of the earth who absolutely *wouldn't* judge him, and who knows me well enough to get to the point immediately, and whom I know well enough to find some reassurance in what she says, because he doesn't want to be outed.

And it drives me crazy that he wears a friggin' size 5, A FIVE! I'm grateful that he doesn't wear breast forms - and somewhat amazed at what a good underwire bra can do in a size AA! And it makes me crazy that from the neck down, he looks *really* really cute in these things and that I can't wear mini skirts and little tank summer dresses that swirl around my thighs anymore...

And I want my guy back. I want to be thrown to the bed and taken in a burst of machismo.

And it really really really drives me nuts that I can't say these things to him without risking hurting his feelings...or making him feel rejected...or embarrasing him...or bringing up a hideous amount of previous rejection and name calling and other true abuses suffered at the hands of a really nasty exwife who actually told his family (and possibly some colleagues) about his dressing.......... And it also makes me crazy that its illegal to strangle her with my bare hands for it!

And I don't want to think about this anymore.

-g, who's having a bad day of it today. I miss him (he's been gone a week and has 4 more days to go, so I'm dumping a bunch of this emotional stuff while he's gone.)

[Honey(SO)]

Hi Georgia,
I do hope getting that all out made you feel better! There are many wives who are dealing with their DH's and the internet thing. AS far as I am concerned it is just another form of cheating. He is having his sexual needs met online so there is just nothing left for you.
Have you told him how this makes you feel?
i am sure he has been hurt badly by previous relationships and maybe that is part of why he feels he does not want to dress for you. And perhaps a lack of self acceptance on his part.
Sit him down and tell him how you feel and really the cyber-sex needs to stop or be greatly reduced. He is not holding up his side in a commited relationship.
Keep posting, hope it gets better for you. Communication is key here.....
Honey (SO)

[RikkiOfLA]

Hi Georgia and Charlie,

I'm a crossdresser and I have to agree with Honey. I don't care if he's bi or tri or whatever. Being in a committed relationship means that he should be faithful to you. Either that, or it's not a committed relationship.

I know what I'm talking about. You see, I'm bi. There are lots of sexy guys and gorgeous t-girls out there in the world. And if I found myself single again, all bets are off as to who my next relationship would be. But right now, all that doesn't matter. My wife and I have been together over 25 years. She's it. And we make hot passionate love, whether I'm wearing girl clothes or boy clothes. By the time the foreplay is over, I'm almost always wearing no clothes and so is she.

Just because someone is bi doesn't mean they need to have both male and female lovers at the same time. Don't believe them if they say they do. I like chocolate, butterscotch, and most fruit flavors, but that doesn't mean I have to have three desserts every night.

Bisexuals can be faithful. I know.

[Georgia(SO)]

Thanks very much, Rickki. Ya know, some of us try so hard to be understanding of things that we don't quite understand that we start to be stupid about it!

Each of us makes our own decisions on how to handle relationships. And since ours began as roommates and evolved into a committed relationship, there were a lot of times that those very divergent paths overlapped, went backwards and forwards, and didn't always go on the same path at the same time for both people. There were times when he was far more committed than I was to having a big-capital-letter Future Together. And there were times when I thought that the relationship was more committed than he was quite ready to be. It's the hazard of building the relationship through the back door, regardless of what particular flavor anyone's quirk is.

Normal relationships go through dating, going steady, moving in, marrying (or marrying, moving in) phases, and since ours didn't do that, because of logistics, etc., there has always been some confusion as to where we are in the process. I believe that we have this part nailed down now, especially after I looked at him and asked if he would be ok with me going and seeking out some big hunky guy to do the things I like but that he isn't into. I think he and I are, if not on the exact same page, we are at least in the chapter just now. He's really very cool...

Ya know, I think that a lot of everyday relationship non-CD issues are amplified when CDing is involved. And sometimes it's hard to separate the two. I try to think of it this way. If, for example, he hit me when he's drinking, the problem isn't that he drinks - it's that he hits me. (He doesn't, its just a really clear example.)

Anyway, thanks for the input. Because he's really not comfortable with the idea of being outted - a feeling I understand to the very atoms in my soul - there just isn't much of anyone to talk with about this. Thanks.

-g

[Sinjoy(SO)]

Dear Georgia,

You are not alone. I know how hard it is not being able to talk to anyone.My husband, Jean-p dosen't want anyone to know either.

There are a lot of geat loving people here, both So's and CD's. We have all cryed, laughed and ranted together. I know you find alot of support here.

There is a section just for us SO's, it is private, just for our eyes only, and my favorite place to rant and rave like a crazy woman!!

The best advise I recieved here was to take a few deep breaths, it does help.

Feel free to pm ANY time. And remember, you are NOT alone. Welcome to the group,

Sinjoy(so)

[Georgia(SO)]

Thanks Sinjoy,

Everyone is being so nice - thanks all of you. I'm really not as upset as it sounded, I guess. I certainly believe that my guy has the right to wear whatever he damn well wants to. It's just that there are moments that are - uh - how do you type a sound - sorta HUHHHHH??? moments.

See, although my intellectual brain is so totally ok with whatever he wears, I too was raised in the same You Tarzan, Me Jane society as everyone else. So there are moments when what I see and what I think and what my gut reaction feels are all on different tracts.

It's interesting that no one picked up on what is really bothering me, which is that I feel like a hypocrite. You see, I'm old enough to remember bra-burning and the flak that men gave us when we wanted to move out of the kitchen and into the board rooms and when we all began to wear power suits modeled after executive men's suits, etc. And I remember the thousands of discussions about these guys just being chauvinistic pigs who wanted to keep their power and their territory to themselves.

Now, being a firm and devoted believer of the goose/gander theory, I realize that any threat to my feminity because my guy's wearing a bra is a thinly disguised chauvinism on my part - and even worse than the guys feeling threatened that I was going to take a *real* job. This is a chauvinism based upon the power that my feminity and sex (sex the verb, not gender) has - and it has come as quite a shock to me that, OMG, I *do* use that.

I've never used it overtly, of course - no casting couch here - but I do know that a little feminity never hurt in talking to an executive. Recognizing that in me has been a huge shock. And here I thought I was liberated and stuff...

-g

[Sinjoy(SO)]

Dear Georgia,

I have been there sister! the hypocrite thing. most of us have. I did pick up on it, but it wasen't my place to say anything before you did. But, that is why I told you about the SO section, go read a few threads and you will see, you are not alone, This was one of my biggest problems. I even began to wonder if I really was the person I thought I was.

As I said earlier, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!! Isn't that nice to know?? it saved what little sanity I had left. When in doubt deep breaths. Remember, we are here for you.

Sinjoy(so)

[Georgia(SO)]

Thanks Sinjoy. BTW, I had posted this originally in the SO section and Sharon invited me to bring it in here. I'm glad I did.

now, it's late Sunday night and I haven't accomplished anything all week, and I've got a metric butt ton of work to do tomorrow (yes, that is considerably larger than a regular butt ton...).

Thanks so much...

-g

[Kersten Lee]

Georgia,

I just welcomed you here and now well? I feel very bad for you. Love does not always conquer all. You are loving a man with real problems. Cheating is cheating. I know through experience that cross-dressing can be good healthy and relationship building. So many people I talk to have pointed to cross-dressing as "the" problem. For me at least I had self-esteem problems and a lot of other problems. Cross-dressing was only a part of me that was a lightining rod for my other bad behaviors toward my wife.

I have been in therapy for two and a half years. I have worked to be a better human being and husband to my wife. I am succeeding. My friends here have helped me on this journey to be happy with who and what I am. I finally think my marriage will be saved and that we will have more love in our lives.

You are starting a dysfunctioal relationship in a lot of areas. You are going to need a lot of help. I do understand how a relationship no matter how bad can be comforting compared to being alone. You said you got together because of electricity and that now, that is being withheld from you. I would suggest you evaluate this relationship realisticly ignoring the cross-dressing portion.

Please don't be hurt by my suggestions, I am writing with love and caring for you. Your life is always in your hands. You have the power to be.

I wish you well,
Kersten

[Georgia(SO)]

Kersten,

What a kind response you have given. And you are right, I suspect, that there is some dysfunctionality in the relationship that has nothing to do with CDing. That is, there is true dysfuntionality on both sides - I'm no heroine either. Two divorces each, two real heartbreaks each, and all the other crap that we all carry around in our U-Hauls of Issues. Standard issue stuff.

Please understand that one of the limitations of a forum like this is that we tend to dump immediate emotions with little opportunity for the reading public to hear the good stuff. I *was* dumping the day I wrote this. And there was far more angst in there that what I normally feel. After all, there really is something funny about it being hard to be a bottom when your stud muffin is wearing panties with puppydog pawprints on them!

Even with little smilie faces, something that was meant to be wry or ironic comes across as deep, dark agony.

It *isn't* fair to you CDs to come on here and dump anonymously. After I posted this, I spent the whole weekend reading posts throughout this forum. And I realized that many of you are scared stupid of what your SOs will think and that it could be taken that this is what I think all the time. It isn't.

Like most of the SOs here, there are days that I'm so ok with it, days that I really think he looks awfully cute in that little turquoise tennis skirt, and then there are days that I don't want to think about it. Think about it this way - I can be fully supportive of his efforts to rebuild a sports car. I can find him parts, I can find him websites, I can hold the wrench. But there are days when I don't want to get oily, when I don't want to hear for the 43rd time that the transmission isn't going together the way it's supposed to. I would venture to guess that there are days when our guys get really tired of whatever we rattle on about. CDing is just a highly charged topic...

Don't feel sorry for me. My sweetie is a phenomenal man and I am a very lucky girl. He's caring and kind and generous and he loves me deeply. And the vast majority of time, I'm really ok with his CDing. While the CDing is more or less consistent, the need to do whatever he does on the net seems to run in cycles and we just came off a cycle where he was more withdrawn than usual and it frustrated me.

And when that withdrawal happens, and when I had the opportunity, while he was away on business, to talk to other SOs, I just let out a bunch of stuff that was building up in me. Women do that, whether the guy in their life is CDing, or obsessed with working on his car, or just being particularly thick-headed.

We're ok. And I thank you deeply for being frank and saying what you feel. I went back and re-read the part about re-evaluating the relationship without the CDing. So I thought about it. Without CDing as an issue, I would have just assumed that lack of sexual energy at this point was due to some deep fear of being totally committed, or due to depression over a really bad business year last year. *That* I understand - I'm scared stupid of it myself, and last year was financially so frightening that it rocked my boat too. So, we take little bitty steps, one at a time, never promising more than we are comfortable with.

-g

[Kersten Lee]

Georgia,

Thanks for the reply! I sure feel much better. It does sound like you do know what is happening and are able to evaluate how you think and feel about things between the both of you. I have learned lately that life is a little give and take at times. It's pretty hard to imagine someone gigly happy and satisfied with everything in a relationship all the time.

Do take care of yourself,
Kersten

[Georgia(SO)]

thanks...
-g