Hi girls,
I wanted to clear up a few things that may help put my opinions into perspective a bit more than I have in previous posts to this thread.
While I talked about the emotional blackmail used against me, I also used emotional blackmail. On more than one occasion I expressed that I would have nothing to live for, if my exwife divorced me, and would just kill myself if that happened.
Even though at the time I was so afraid of the consequences of divorce, I truly felt that way, it was none the less emotional blackmail. I do clearly remember feeling that it would be much easier to kill myself, than to face being outted, and being in a fight to even be able to see my children. At that time, facing that seemed like an impossibility.
And there were other issues that had nothing to do with crossdressing, where we had major difficulties.
The reason I brought all this up was not to say "hey, I can do no wrong, everything was her fault", but to point out that there really is no place for blame in all this. There is always an abundance of blame to go around.
How do you decide if the crossdresser being who he is, or his SO being who she is, is most right? You can't, they are equal. What it boils down to in the end is, can the SO accept and be happy with a man who wants to dress like qirl? and will she forgive him for lying and try to understand why he thought he had to lie. And will the crossdresser seize the opportunity and come 100% clean, and not lie to his SO about his intentions, or his deeds, so he may rebuild trust.
Obviously if either party is using emotional blackmail, there are some issues that go past crossdressing.
In the end I am sure we could both justifyably blame the other for our breakup, but it is of little use because in the end what caused it to end was that she could not accept being married to a crossdresser. All the bounderies in the world could not change how I felt inside nor could it change how being married to a crossdresser was something she just could not accept.
If we could have reached a place where she could have accepted that I was a crossdresser , we might have worked out our others problems in counseling.
So, that is why I am against imposed bounderies.
Love always,
Elizabeth
Self esteem, Bounderies, and who really wears the pants.
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Loretta Ann
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Hi Elizabeth,
I have puzzled over the fact that I did not have a problem understanding what you were saying or where you were coming from. Yet others appeared to have a difficulty with this. And I think that one needs to be able to step out of the box in order to understand.
Like you I was forced to step out of the box, and I think that is what made the difference.
Now I can not speak for you, but reflecting on my situation. Boundaries imposed on others are clearly not the answer. Why? Because they do not work. Just as most cross-dressers will still find away to indulge in spite of boundaries set by others and society. One that will seek affairs out side of a marriage will do likewise. Boundaries imposed by others will not put an end to that.
Another example; “the laws of the country.” They are boundaries, yet the courts remain full. And crime will always be an issue.
Now a boundary that says this is as far as I will go (being a self imposed boundary) is not in the same picture as a boundary imposed on another. They are as different as apples and oranges.
I (as I suspect you) would not go near a relationship that mirrors one like our past picture. And that is a self imposed boundary, albeit it could be also described as good plain old common sense.
If one wants to find out if a woman will accept and be supportive of a cross-dresser find out what her self imposed boundaries are, and how strong she feels about them. And understand that if you push that envelope with baby steps or whether you run at the door, there will be strife, which could also be interpreted as abuse.
In my opinion it is not being 100% supportive and/or accepting of who that person is. Yet most cross-dressers can not understand why their mate is not supportive of who we are.
It seems to me that there is something wrong with that picture.
Also in my opinion emotional blackmail is nothing more than an indication of one whose personal growth has been retarded. And they do not have the tools to deal with issues in a constructive manner. And in the end that is (one of the things) that can serve to take them out of the picture, albeit they seldom see it in that light.
Elizabeth, since you have gotten out of your previous marriage you have obtained some new tools. You have blossomed and now are showing us your palatable fruit.
Love Darlene.
I have puzzled over the fact that I did not have a problem understanding what you were saying or where you were coming from. Yet others appeared to have a difficulty with this. And I think that one needs to be able to step out of the box in order to understand.
Like you I was forced to step out of the box, and I think that is what made the difference.
Now I can not speak for you, but reflecting on my situation. Boundaries imposed on others are clearly not the answer. Why? Because they do not work. Just as most cross-dressers will still find away to indulge in spite of boundaries set by others and society. One that will seek affairs out side of a marriage will do likewise. Boundaries imposed by others will not put an end to that.
Another example; “the laws of the country.” They are boundaries, yet the courts remain full. And crime will always be an issue.
Now a boundary that says this is as far as I will go (being a self imposed boundary) is not in the same picture as a boundary imposed on another. They are as different as apples and oranges.
I (as I suspect you) would not go near a relationship that mirrors one like our past picture. And that is a self imposed boundary, albeit it could be also described as good plain old common sense.
If one wants to find out if a woman will accept and be supportive of a cross-dresser find out what her self imposed boundaries are, and how strong she feels about them. And understand that if you push that envelope with baby steps or whether you run at the door, there will be strife, which could also be interpreted as abuse.
In my opinion it is not being 100% supportive and/or accepting of who that person is. Yet most cross-dressers can not understand why their mate is not supportive of who we are.
It seems to me that there is something wrong with that picture.
Also in my opinion emotional blackmail is nothing more than an indication of one whose personal growth has been retarded. And they do not have the tools to deal with issues in a constructive manner. And in the end that is (one of the things) that can serve to take them out of the picture, albeit they seldom see it in that light.
Elizabeth, since you have gotten out of your previous marriage you have obtained some new tools. You have blossomed and now are showing us your palatable fruit.
Love Darlene.
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Kay(SO)
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Elizabeth,
I am supposed to be taking a shower to leave on my trip but thought I would pop on here while opening my eyes with some coffee.
I just want to say that you have just gained a huge amount of respect from me for taking responsibility for your part in the situation with your exwife. There are always two players and I knew that there were two sides to the story or at least that there was more to it than just her being completely faulted.
I think it was brave of you to say that you also used emotional blackmail and for that you have my admiration. Not for doing it but for saying it.
I hope that makes sense. It's just that in my world, not everyone can own their own part in situations and sometimes it's my job to try to get them there. Not always an easy task. It sounds like you have grown from the experience and are in a much better place now. Some things turn out the way they do because it's for the best for everyone involved. Even when they are difficult and painful. Unfortunately we grow from the most painful experiences and become better people and more equipped to handle what life throws our way. You should be proud of yourself for the growth you have obviously experienced. Hugs,
Kay(SO)
I am supposed to be taking a shower to leave on my trip but thought I would pop on here while opening my eyes with some coffee.
I just want to say that you have just gained a huge amount of respect from me for taking responsibility for your part in the situation with your exwife. There are always two players and I knew that there were two sides to the story or at least that there was more to it than just her being completely faulted.
I think it was brave of you to say that you also used emotional blackmail and for that you have my admiration. Not for doing it but for saying it.
I hope that makes sense. It's just that in my world, not everyone can own their own part in situations and sometimes it's my job to try to get them there. Not always an easy task. It sounds like you have grown from the experience and are in a much better place now. Some things turn out the way they do because it's for the best for everyone involved. Even when they are difficult and painful. Unfortunately we grow from the most painful experiences and become better people and more equipped to handle what life throws our way. You should be proud of yourself for the growth you have obviously experienced. Hugs,
Kay(SO)
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Beauty
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Hi Elizabeth,
I have to agree with everything Kay said from respect to you growing as a person.
Your last post was just amazing!!!! You've grown so much since you first joined us. You're more positive about yourself, You've changed things you didn't like about yourself, you've accepted the way things are, you've owned things that you have responsibility for, and you've placed blame where blame needs to be placed.
You really are so healthy. It's great!!!! Kay said it all for me, so I don't just want to repeat what she said. I mean who wants to copy and paste this early?
You're the best Elizabeth!!!!
Beauty
I have to agree with everything Kay said from respect to you growing as a person.
Your last post was just amazing!!!! You've grown so much since you first joined us. You're more positive about yourself, You've changed things you didn't like about yourself, you've accepted the way things are, you've owned things that you have responsibility for, and you've placed blame where blame needs to be placed.
You really are so healthy. It's great!!!! Kay said it all for me, so I don't just want to repeat what she said. I mean who wants to copy and paste this early?
You're the best Elizabeth!!!!
Beauty
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CJ
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Hi all,
This thread:
Kay,
I understand what you said in the post above but I would say that, although it's unfortunate that we must go through some pain and suffering in order to have the opportunity to grow and change, it's certainly most fortunate that we do, indeed, grow because of our painful experiences.
Have a great trip, Kay! You are, after all, a trippy lady!
Beauty,
I'm very tempted to cut and paste your own reply to Elizabeth! I totally agree!
Love,
CJ
This thread:
Kay,
I understand what you said in the post above but I would say that, although it's unfortunate that we must go through some pain and suffering in order to have the opportunity to grow and change, it's certainly most fortunate that we do, indeed, grow because of our painful experiences.
Have a great trip, Kay! You are, after all, a trippy lady!
Beauty,
I'm very tempted to cut and paste your own reply to Elizabeth! I totally agree!
Love,
CJ
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Absaroka
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Elizabeth I want to say that I think that your being willing to aknowlege your part in all this, your playing emotional blackmail, and your self examination has raised this whole discussion to an entirely new level and I applaud it loud and long.
The only person we can ever change is ourself. Although it is very important to examine how others treat us if that is all we do we are wasting our time. For example a subject that comes up here often is what can the crossdresser do to help the SO accept the crossdressing. The answer may be nothing will help but often it has seemed that couple have been able to evolve their own mutually acceptable rules.
Andrea
The only person we can ever change is ourself. Although it is very important to examine how others treat us if that is all we do we are wasting our time. For example a subject that comes up here often is what can the crossdresser do to help the SO accept the crossdressing. The answer may be nothing will help but often it has seemed that couple have been able to evolve their own mutually acceptable rules.
Andrea
everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
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Loretta Ann
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Hi Andrea,The only person we can ever change is ourself. Although it is very important to examine how others treat us if that is all we do we are wasting our time. For example a subject that comes up here often is what can the crossdresser do to help the SO accept the crossdressing. The answer may be nothing will help but often it has seemed that couple have been able to evolve their own mutually acceptable rules.
I want to applaud your post.
Other than perhaps simply providing information; which I consider a resource, when dealing with problems. You are right they need to find their own way. And anything beyond that may well come back to bite the cross-dresser where it hurts the most.
Something I live by is if one can not supply what I need (in a relationship) free from who they are as a person (from their heart) I don’t want it, and they are better off to keep it.
Love Darlene.
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Georgia(SO)
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Elizabeth,
I know that this is a hard time for you. Just wanted to note that you, too, have my respect for taking responsibility for things that you did, or did not do, within your marriage.
As always, it is sad to see divorce come around. Been there, done that - a couple of times. Here's to you, with best wishes for happier days...
-georgia(so)
I know that this is a hard time for you. Just wanted to note that you, too, have my respect for taking responsibility for things that you did, or did not do, within your marriage.
As always, it is sad to see divorce come around. Been there, done that - a couple of times. Here's to you, with best wishes for happier days...
-georgia(so)